Has anyone had experiences good or bad with speaker isolation or isolation in general ?

hi
abernajack
please educate yourself you cannot believe everything you read , you cannot describe everything you cannot see, just sit back and enjoy the fact you are seeing the picture from your ears
You also cannot describe how acoustic pebbles will add to musical pleasure as you have not heard them at my place and as yet neither have i, i would consider your remarks as naive and believing everything you read is naive and gullible. 
Also unless you have had experiences on the subjects and can offer first hand advice and factual accounts of your proof beyond any reasonable doubt the article is not worth reading .
Unless it a major upgrade to speaker isolation or any other isolation in general ?
My discussion was to share isolation to fellow members which i found made a huge improvement to my system,
My SR acoustic arts set also made an improvement to lessening pleasure
which i would never remove ,
Firing my sondlabs and apogees down the room was significantly better than across but my Tannoys sounded far better across.
I have met some really great audiophiles in my lifetime but not one has ever offered such detailed information regarding seismic vibrations and various ways to isolate ones system from these seismic vibrations as geoff.
From reading what Geoff has discussed and compared hes findings with my own experiences he obviously knows what he is talking about .
 I also found listening to Max townshend describing facts regarding seismic vibrations on YOUTUBE led me to buying Max townshend products which went on to give me upgrades like i have never experienced before.  
I am very curious regarding these pebbles and knowing a little about room acoustics seismic vibrations and EMF and RFI it is definitely worth the layout to install these products into my system .
If you disagree because you read it somewhere im afraid your audio journey is going to be a very limited experience,  some of the really great products that can bring the very best realistic music from your system are actually lying around you room , they are not an electrically connected part of the system they are what has been described as acoustic room treatments , this is another complete area altogether and deserves a separate discussion as most audiophiles and electrical engineers believe you must get your room acoustically damped correctly , so other than the importance of isolation you have the joy of room acoustics big colored panels and tubes or hopefully various small sized pebbles who looks naive now.

hi
has anyone had experiences with magnetic levitation , i keep seeing these products pooping up but notice a bar running threw the middle of the magnets i believe. 
If both top and bottom are still connected how does the product work ?
As long as the effects of the magnets do not interfere with the isolated equipment , seeing a gap between component and solid surface looks very interesting , its just that pole that is going threw the middle makes me think the technique still needs some tweaking 

mains OP
hi
has anyone had experiences with magnetic levitation , i keep seeing these products pooping up but notice a bar running threw the middle of the magnets i believe.
If both top and bottom are still connected how does the product work ?
As long as the effects of the magnets do not interfere with the isolated equipment , seeing a gap between component and solid surface looks very interesting , its just that pole that is going threw the middle makes me think the technique still needs some tweaking.

the issue with magnetic levitation devices of the sort that show up in audiophile systems is that two opposing magnets are used in usually four corners of the mag lev stand. As fate would have it magnets, especially the powerful rare earth type required to lift significant loads, are very slippery in the lateral direction, since there are significant magnetic forces involved that are not all vertical in their vectors as it were. Therefore some mechanism must be employed to prevent the top plate from sliding entirely off the stand and onto the floor.

There are two choices, one is to place "stops" around the stand that prevent the top plate from moving very far (but allowing it to move to some degree, at least until it hits a stop. Since isolation as I said before is defined as the ability to move freely in the direction of interest, in this case the horizontal plane. So, this is one drawback of mag lev. The other way to deal with the issue is to put pins or bars through the middle of the magnets, which accomplishes the same thing but has the same problem. In either case there is a path, albeit a small one, for vibration to be transmitted to the top plate. I built a mag lev stand for my modded Radio Shack CD3400 CD Player which gives you some idea just how long ago that was. Presumably the magnets act like springs, at least to some extent. Springs are better - easier to implement, better isolators, and they sound better IMHO.

Thanks again for a very detailed easy to understand explanation , im glad i did not buy into this magnet idea as my aim was to isolate my hole system , My bank has taken a bit of a whack but it wont but long until im ready for some pebbles . Thanks for all your advice Geoff and to everyone that added very useful experiences to this discussion ,
I have also started a discussion regarding mains conditioners and balanced transformers if anyone can help thank you  

Self serving masterpieces of deception.

i know what i am hearing and so do many other people using podiums , its night and day ,
as i mentioned i had tried various other ideas but only found the podiums to be a complete improvement in all areas of sound quality
if the gentlemen would like some kind of proof he should come round mine i can do a before and after, also i believe max runs many trials and tests so he could send him hes results i know there is a youtube video that covers the seismic podiums ,
over the years it has been said all amplifiers sound the same and
cables make no difference 
now we read speaker isolation does not measure sound quality,
as we now know all amplifiers do not sound the same , cables do make a difference and isolating my speakers has been  biggest improvement in sound quality yet 
i listen to music i do not measure it , my ears are my judge , since isolating my load speakers i am hearing music like never before , the sound is so realistic its amazing , i believe everyone should isolate there loudspeakers first then the rest of your components then sit back and enjoy the benefits  

Vibration isolation is a proven science. One need look no further than LIGO (the project to detect gravity waves) to appreciate the insidious, unrelenting nature of seismic vibration and the necessity of real isolation techniques. Advanced audiophiles have been reaping the rewards of vibration isolation for more than 20 years. In fact more than 20,000 isolation platforms have been sold to discerning audiophiles in the last 20 years. It was 20 years ago today I introduced the first 6 degree of freedom Sub Hertz isolation platform at CES with Mapleshade Studio. Still, you find some folks who are either in denial or have some axe to grind hiding in the caves.

@bugredmachine thanks for the foam blocks!  

bugredmachine was kind enough to send me his excess foam/rubber isolation blocks.  i finally got around to trying them out with nobody else around to distract me...

let me set the stage first: i have my stereo in a somewhat dedicated room in the basement.  the floor is a concrete slab covered with a thin carpet pad and a thin, dense commercial carpet.  i'm currently using spikes that pierce the carpet and pad, resting on the concrete slab below.

the foam/rubber blocks do not seem to be a good match for these conditions.  compared to the spikes, the bass became less defined and reduced in power and the whole soundstage collapsed slightly in on itself.  my guess is these blocks would sound stellar between my speakers and the pure concrete slab.  with the carpet pad, carpet and the foam blocks between my speakers and floor, the speakers weren't planted enough.

i'm going to try them between my preamp and its isolation platform next. i currently have wooden feet in that application.  

oh, almost forgot, i bought some conical compression springs for under my preamp iso plinth, to replace the rubber inner tube that was there.  they were $3/piece from grainger.  well worth it and, because they are conical, they are very stable, so i did not have to countersink them like i did the regular compression springs i used on my TT iso platform..

here's what i heard after replacing the innertube under the preamp  with the springs: the sound cleared up a bit, with slightly better separation between instruments and slightly tighter bass.  definitely an improvement, but not nearly as drastic as the improvement i heard when i replaced the innertube under the TT platform with springs.  that was a very noticeable improvement.

The problem with conical springs is they are not linear since the spring rate obviously cannot be the same from one end to the other. It would be like driving a car with two different shocks in series on each wheel, going down the street would be a very bumpy ride.Ordinary cylinder shaped springs are stable enough as long as their combined spring rate matches the load. It also helps to have high-carbon, heat-treated and cryo’d steel springs.

Interesting. I may have to find some short, fat cylindrical springs and listen. Out of curiosity, why do we need them heat treated and cryo’d? Does that increase the linearity of the spring rate? I know it increases strength and durability, but that’s hardly an issue under the TT.

I make sure I match up the spring rate and amount of preload to the load. Thanks for the reminder though.

A good trick is try to use a single compression spring under the load. That way you can get quite a bit more rotational isolation than with multiple springs. You can potentially get much lower iso system Fr to boot than with multiple springs.

it is very important to get the right weight spring definitely not one size fits all, my understanding for the best results is you want the spring at least 3/4 squashed so that you are getting the best isolation from the spring system, 
i find it strange that you have probably got a great system but then you will just place foam or any spring type thing in there and hope for the best.
why not contact a townshend or some other spring isolation expert/dealer and get the job done properly the weight the springs need to carry is very important.
maybe you just got lucky with the TT check if the springs are quite squashed i believe this is what you want to see and the equipment on top can move freely in all 6 directions isolating you from seismic energy up/down, left/right and  back/forth i believe is what you need to achieve basically you want free movement in all directions 

please if you are going to use springs to isolate may i suggest seismic pods they are designed to carry all loads and can to be used in sets of 3 or 4 , and are easy to twist to level your equipment so no accidents they will also hold value for selling on if you wish to upgrade for the seismic platforms which are very well built and easier to level  
playing guesswork could have the opposite effect and ruin the sound of your system and could collapse and actually damaged ones equipment 
pls check emporium hifi for cheap prices they deliver worldwide every one puts up links of where to buy products i am merely trying to help you get the products that work cheap and are deigned to isolate your equipment down to 3hz  

Let’s review the bidding. There are 6 directions of motion, the vertical, the horizontal plane (which counts as two directions). Then there is twist, the rotational direction around the vertical axis, and rock and roll directions, the other two rotational directions. The reason there are rotational directions is because the seismic forces are frequently in the form of physical waves, like waves on the ocean passing under a boat. This is why granite’s stiffness is good for isolation, it resists rotational forces. It's mass is good for isolation because of its inertia - more force is required to move it.

@mains   I understand the idea of buying well engineered products with a nice finish and I think it’s sweet how we’re all trying to get each other to the best sound possible.

Here’s my perspective: I’m a stay at home dad. My wife makes decent money, but we save as much as we can do she can retire and we can get our boys through college. At the moment I can’t justify spending hundreds of dollars on things that I can DIY for much less. Plus, I get a much greater sense of satisfaction ​using something I’ve built versus something I’ve bought. Let me emphasize these are my values and I judge no one what like else for their decisions on these matters. 

As for the springs I’ve been using, I calculated the sizes I’d need and the spring rate required to be stable and give me the right amount of preload. It’s not like I was just buying random springs and stuffing them under my turntable. I'm reasonably handy and have worked in various manufacturing jobs before kids, so I pay attention to the important details like structural stability and follow the implications of simple physical laws.

With regards to the conical springs: since the seismic waves we’re isolating our equipment from have such small amplitudes, does it matter that the spring rate is not perfectly linear? The amount of travel is so small I’d imagine that the rate is reasonably close to linear in those fractions of a mm. But then again, my imagination has lead me astray before..

@keithtexas just looked at your links. Thanks, some cutting edge equipment there!

:-P

hi toddverrone
your completely in the right direction with springs this is purely based on my own experiences.
if it helps Max townshend told me that you want the spring quite squashed so it is doing its job , thats why its so important to get the weight right, 
the hole idea is your equipment is actually floating so it is protected from the seismic vibrations down to 3hz,
i believe im accurate in saying no system reaches this sub bass seismic 3 hz level which means max townshends design is ideal for system isolation,
i got best results from isolating my speakers first 
if you are interested in the podiums for all speaker weights and sizes emporium hifi in the uk sells the products at some 30/40% discount so instead of gambling your money on DIY ideas which in fact could do the job there is an opportunity to buy the correct engineered product at more realistic pricing  that will do the job and look very nice too , im too only trying to help other audiophiles experience the magic of the podiums regards john

This is very interesting, because at louder volumes my new subs will cause oscillation that's from either mechanical and/or aerial feedback. It's been in the back of my mind, because I don't get it at the volume levels that I play music, but still...
I'm getting upgraded feet for my table, that use an internal spring system, so the results may be promising, as I attempt to eliminate this oscillation.
Kenny

hi kenny
before you spend any money try out the townsend audio seismic isolation platform, all you need to know is the weight of your piece of equipment , then the platform can be supplied with the correct load cells , the isolation provided is down to 3hz you will get no better for the money if you check my previous link you will see where you can purchase at high discounted prices , 
if you start with your loudspeakers first you will hear first hand what isolation will do when done properly, the seismic podiums are ground breaking products , after all its your loudspeakers that cause nearly all the vibrations when playing music especially if they are spiked to your floor ,
please check out max townshend youtube video showing the positive effects of the seismic podiums and demonstrating the negative effects of  vibrations from using spikes even on concrete
my honest opinion is until you can completely isolate your speakers , your system can nether sound as good as it is , you are basically throwing your money away by keeping on buying better electronics.
isolation has provided the biggest sound improvements to my system , the biggest effect was from isolating my speakers , it was huge mind blowing i just could not believe the difference in sound quality . you can hear every instrument being played , the speakers become so transparent ,and musical  its something one has to experience for ones self , 

  

The endless shill.

😀

I am sensing a pattern!

I’m having a bit of trouble understanding the benefits of isolation for speakers.

That being said, I do have modular halcyonics type units under my turntable and even with it’s weight at over 150 lbs, the active vibration cancellation when turned on acts to focus and free the sound. And there is already a passive effect below a certain Hz. That can’t be defeated to evaluate its effects.

i also have 3 additional platforms I’m going to install under the BHK monoblock amps and a tube pre amp, so obviously I’m quite a fan of active vibration cancellation.

My TAD CR-1’s have their concentric tweeter/midrange mechanically isolated /suspended from the cabinets to avoid woofer vibration from oscillating those drivers.

But.... I’m failing to understand the benefits of breaking the mechanical ground path for vibration and potentially allowing the cabinet to even minimally move back and forth on a springy suspension.

Is the benefit that less vibration gets into the electronics? If so that seems best dealt with at the electronics.

I do love Soundlabs but I’m wondering if the benefit the OP hears is a result of the stat panels getting less vibration from the woofers. I have only heard full range soundlab models, and not their hybrid designs.

i have not even installed the TAD supplied cones or spikes on my speakers, since the factory stands are quite stable. I read that most TAd owners don’t install the spikes or rounded cones.

my Halcyonic type units could support the weight of the speakers, but I feel they would be constantly oscillating from the forward and back motion of the woofer.

I do have my subwoofers on 20" Sistrum speaker stands, and have heard the benefits of sistrum devices under other turntables and speakers, And i have heard the benefits of mechanical grounding.

I’m planning on using the active vibration attached to 3" maple Timbernation platforms (which is how the turntable is set up) but with sistrum cones between the amp chasis and the maple .

in this configuration the vibration sinks to the maple, which is then isolated from floor born vibration.

hi
when i was experimenting with stillpoints the dealer said it was best to start with your loudspeakers as they cause most of the vibration when playing music, which can travel to your delicate electronics , it made sense as i like to play quite load so i get the sense of a real life like musical experience .
i didn't get on with the stillpoints and was advised to try the Townsend seismic podiums which were a very new product he recommended checking out the you tube video with Max townshend demonstrating the effects of seismic speaker isolation .
All i can say is they transformed my system from great to absolutely amazing in every area , my speakers have completely disappeared every area of musical reproduction has been improved to incredible levels ,
PMC loudspeakers are a solid box type speaker used in recording studios around the world , the company is planning on building a podium platform into the design of there loudspeakers , i have not heard first hand a PMC loudspeaker on a seismic podium but hearing there plans the effect must of been similar to what i experienced , 
like all hifi you got to try before you buy all i can advise is im so glad i tried as they transformed my system , over the years i have owned some outrageous hifi , i am the only audiophile in the UK to own the Nola Grand Reference being driven by 4 of the Edge NL reference mono blocks the front end was a DCS stack which i swapped for the Esoteric PO1 with a pair of D01s and the Esoteric clock .
That was all some years ago when business was very good , all i can say is im enjoying my lector cd707 with psu7 my little Nordacoustic class D amps driving my soundlabs with Townshend audio seismic isolation and a couple of mpingo discs just as much ,
i didnt get into isolation back in the day all the money went on equipment , i still say putting my sound labs on the podiums has been the biggest upgrade i have ever heard in any of my hifi systems , i believe there is no harm in you trying good luck , check out the video on youtube explaining the effects of the podiums i found it very interesting and extremely beneficial to my system as they have made a huge improvement. 

mains -
Thank you for the Townsend recommendation, and I have briefly looked at the isolation products for speakers/subs.
I started a post about stabalizing my rack, because I have it sitting out from my front wall on a bouncy floor. My rack is currently spiked to the wood floor, so I'm considering adding footers under the spikes (Mapleshade Heavy Feet). For example, Herbie has a heavy version of their pucks for this. Once, I pick a solution, so that my rack is at its new height, I will secure the rack to the front wall, so that it is rigid.
I will start with my rack, and then work on the rest. My table is getting an upgrade with the new feet I had mentioned and a better bearing.
Kenny

Kennythekey wrote,

"I started a post about stabalizing my rack, because I have it sitting out from my front wall on a bouncy floor. My rack is currently spiked to the wood floor, so I’m considering adding footers under the spikes (Mapleshade Heavy Feet). For example, Herbie has a heavy version of their pucks for this. Once, I pick a solution, so that my rack is at its new height, I will secure the rack to the front wall, so that it is rigid."

Yes I know it doesn’t sound right but rigid structures are not really good for sound. Actually the opposite is true: structures that are NOT rigid, but flexible and easy to move are good for the sound. This was the idea behind the Flexy Rack of yore. What happens with rigid structures is they ENSURE that seismic type low frequency vibrations from the wall or floor or ceiling will be transmitted MORE efficiently to the component. Remember, isolation can be defined as the ability of the structure and component to move freely in the direction of interest. So the best isolation would be using a structure or stand whatever that has the ability to move freely in all six directions, including the 3 rotational directions. For the Minus K isolation device placing a penny on the top plate is sufficient force to put the entire top plate in motion, undulating and bobbing up and down. Now, that's isolation!

Cheers,

geoff kait
machina dynamica
isolation & resonance control

Geoff -
Here's the issue. Eliminating my power amps, so only the sub amps are on, I drop my arm on a stationary LP. As I turn up the volume on either sub, l start to get oscillation through the sub. I do not get oscillation if I do the same with my arm up. If I'm actually playing music, I have to turn the sub amps way up before oscillation, so at my listening levels all is good. Back to just the subs on and the arm down with platter stationary, I placed a half inflated bicycle inner tube under my table after I removed the feet. Repeating the original experiment, the oscillation was far worse. So, I'm not sure if I'm fighting mechanical or aerial feedback?
Kenny

Bicycle inner tubes are not what I would call a great idea. For one thing their geometry is totally wrong and for another noone is sure what pressure to inflate the inner tube. They also lose air pressure because the rubber material is not entirely air tight; thus the inner tube must be pumped up every once in a while. I would certainly try inner tubes under the subs, for lack of something like springs. And inflate the inner tubes with sufficiently high air pressure, maybe 30 psi or thereabouts, so they don’t compress too much under the weight of the subs - and are stable. I now offer Super Stiff Springs for heavy turntables and subwoofers, speakers that are not too top heavy, as well as heavy amps as fate would have it.

Kenny - springs are way better at vibration isolation than an inner tube.

I recently got rid of the inner tube I had under the maple butcher block my turntable rests on. I bought my springs from Grainger after doing a few simple calculations to determine size and spring rate. Geoff’s springs aren’t that much more expensive and you wouldn’t have to do any calculations.

My test for the different means of isolation involved hitting my equipment stand with the arm down on an LP but the turntable not spinning. With the turntable sitting directly on the stand, the hits were audible as loud thumps. With the butcher block on the inner tube, the thumps were diminished in volume. With the butcher block on the springs, I had to increase the force of my hits to even get any thump. So springs may help your problem even if the inner tube did not.

Toddverrone,
I am not doubting the benefits of using springs, when applied correctly will provide benefits against mechanical isolation. I had mentioned that I'm getting upgraded feet that are made by my table's manufacturer that are designed with a built in spring system. I am also getting an upgraded bearing, but that's besides the point. My table already sits on a Silent Running Audio isolation platform, and with that in place, knocking on my rack with the table sitting directly on the rack, is louder than with the SRA in place.

My bigger point is that I can eliminate the oscillation just by changing the phase of the subs IC inputs. If my problem was due to vibration from mechanical feedback then when I switch the phase of the outputs to my subs I should continue to have oscillation if the problem is vibration. In fact, the vibration is just as strong regardless of phase.
Kenny

Kenny - got it. I didn't quite understand from your post that changing the phase of the sub eliminated oscillation. I thought it was still there and you were still searching for possible remedies. My bad! Carry on..

I have eliminated the oscillation with just the subs on and the arm down and stationary, but if I'm playing music through just the subs, I will get oscillation raising the sub amp volume.

i can play my whole system up to my normal listening levels and with my subs dialed in. The benefits of the subs are big and I have resolved my goal of adding fill-in, so my system sounds better than ever. If I do raise the sub amp volume past a certain level while playing music, the oscillation will kick in. So, I have effectively tamed the oscillation, but even though I don't hear it normally now, I wonder if it isn't affecting my sound in some less than obvious way? I also want to know what's causing it to begin with, as the mechanical feedback theory can be simply defeated by phase reversal.
Kenny

Just to close the loop as it were lol for inner tube isolation, the reason this DIY technique doesn’t work all that well compared to other techniques IMHO is largely due to the incorrect assumption that isolation is supposed to be "floating on air" whereas real isolation is obtained by the physics of the mass-on-spring behavior of most isolation devices/techniques, where the resonant frequency of the isolation system is equal to the square root of the total spring rate divided by the total mass. The resonant frequency determines the frequency of vibration where the isolation begins. The equation for Fr shows the advantages of high mass and minimizing the number of springs as well as spring rate per spring. That’s how I got the resonant frequency of my Nimbus air spring platform down to about 0.5 Hz (hel-loo!)- my using high mass and a single air spring (!) of the correct geometry and spring rate. A single air spring also allows for much greater horizontal and rotational isolation in addition to vertical isolation.

For air systems, bladders, airsprings, inner tubes, there is what is called a design (based on pressure under the load) for which they behave as true springs. If the air bladders, whatever are not filled enough or filled too much their spring rates will be incorrect. In addition there is the issue of air leakage through the rubber fabric. A much better DIY isolation technique that avoids the pitfalls of inner tubes is bungee cord suspension, a technique that obviously has challenges of its own.

Long ago I read that a spring isolation system should not be employed with a turntable already having a spring-type suspension, such as the original VPI HW-19, the Linn Sondek, the Oracle, Thorens, and all the other floating-suspension tables, all the way back to the Acoustic Research. That is because the springs in the turntable and the springs in the isolation platform interact with each other in a delirious fashion. Non-suspended turntable designs, such as current VPI’s, Regas, Well Tempereds, etc., of course have no such problem.

bdp24 - It makes sense that doubling up on springs would create unstable results. Perhaps, like driving on a washboard surface?

My table is non-suspended and I installed the new spring based feet. I can tell you that my sound is smoother, the background is blacker, and bass is better. However, this did not really do anything for the lurking oscillation that I can reproduce from my subs. My last puzzle piece I will go after is my cartridge. When I get my loaner cartridge to test it may reveal something.
Kenny

kennythekey
bdp24 - It makes sense that doubling up on springs would create unstable results. Perhaps, like driving on a washboard surface?

its not like driving on a washboard surface at all. It’s like driving down the road on two sets of shock absorbers that have the same spring rate. The ride would be chaotic and bumpy, but not bumpy like a washboard, bumpy like an aircraft going through heavy turbulence, a series of unpredictable lurches up and down.

geoffait
The ride would be chaotic and bumpy, but not bumpy like a washboard, bumpy like an aircraft going through heavy turbulence, a series of unpredictable lurches up and down

So, is this why we hear reports of tonearms actually jumping up and down off the record surface?
Kenny

kennythekey
geoffait
The ride would be chaotic and bumpy, but not bumpy like a washboard, bumpy like an aircraft going through heavy turbulence, a series of unpredictable lurches up and down

So, is this why we hear reports of tonearms actually jumping up and down off the record surface?

The reason tonearms jump out of the record groove is because the turntable is not isolated or not isolated sufficiently, or not isolated properly. Then, e.g., when a bus goes by and runs over a manhole cover out front, voila! - the tonearm jumps. It could happen more easily perhaps if someone inadvertently put a spring system under a suspended turntable, that’s true.

Kenny, my table is also non-suspended---a Townshend Rock Elite. Max Townshend incorporated his Seismic Pod into the last version of the Rock (Mk.7, I believe), a quartet of Pods that function as the tables suspension. The Rock Elite has a trio of Sorbothane-like rubber half-spheres on it’s bottom surface for isolation, and I will shortly be replacing them with a trio of the Seismic Pods.

Would it not be better to place your Rock Elite as it is on a Townshend Audio Seismic Isolation Platform, i have no experience of the turntable, but if it was originally built with a trio of sorbothane-like rubber half-spheres on its bottom surface for isolation, maybe placing the TT on a Seismic Isolation Platform could raise the performance even higher, if not the seismic pods are very good,, i preferred the look of the platforms and i am very happy with the improvements they brought to my system. The seismic Podiums brought the biggest upgrade my system has ever experienced. 

I have had excellent results with Symposium platforms under my speakers.

Thanks, guys. If we can take a brief moment to get away from the springs, my bouncy floor can cause foot falls that can cause my rack to slightly wobble. If I throw a party, forget about it!

Without moving the rack, I want to tie the top rear outside corners of the top shelf to the front wall behind the rack. So, hard maple 2x4" rail across wall directly behind top shelf with maple 1x2" boards connecting the top shelf corners to the rail. BTW, maple because it matches my rack. My isolation/non-isolation question is, should I use any damping material where the 1x2" members are connected to the rail on the wall and top shelf? I was checking out Acoustical Solutions isolation pad that you can cut into individual 2x2" squares. They are a 3/4" sandwich of rubber- cork-rubber.

The more general question is, do I want to limit vibrations from the wall coming into the rack due to the direct connection, or do I want to isolate those vibrations? I have heard both opinions.
Kenny

Obviously, springs were a popular topic. Ha!

@kennythekey my first guess would be to rigidly mount it to the wall. But that’s just a guess without having any experience of how wiggly your wall is, etc..

In general, I’ve had the best success with a rigid rack and a floating platform for my turnable on that. But since your floor is bouncy, it would make the most sense to try and tie as rigidly as possible to the wall and use isolation under the rack legs, since that is where the problem is.

I think putting foam between the wall coupling would only reduce the effectiveness of tying into the wall.

Incidentally, will pieces of 1x2 be strong enough to be effective? Again, not sure how heavy your rack is, so they may be more than adequate. They certainly would not be on mine!

Thanks, toddveronne. The title of this post included general isolation, so why I threw my rack into the mix.

The wall is a bearing wall that sits on the foundation wall, so it's not wiggly! The rack can only rock forwards and backwards, so much more stable side-to-side. If I stomp/jump in front of it, I can get the stylus to skip. Otherwise, not a problem, so it's a safety issue.

The 1x2" pieces will be rigid if I directly tie them into the 2x4" rail across the wall. Another A-gon  member recommended this over dampening material in-between, but my dealer suggested the dampening. The positioning of the 2x4" changes if I use/don't use the dampening, so I'm trying to avoid a re-do. When playing music, if I put my hand on the wall, I can feel the vibrations, so do I want the vibrations transferring to my rack or not is the question? It seems, that a small consensus so far supports the direct approach, and to solve vibration issues by isolating the components, instead.
Kenny

kennythekey
The wall is a bearing wall that sits on the foundation wall, so it’s not wiggly! The rack can only rock forwards and backwards, so much more stable side-to-side. If I stomp/jump in front of it, I can get the stylus to skip. Otherwise, not a problem, so it’s a safety issue.

As fate would have it it’s not only floors that are the problem but also walls and ceilings, they all transmit seismic type vibrations. Unsuspended floors might be more problematic, what with trampoline effect and greater susceptibility to seismic type vibrations, including footfall and mechanical feedback, but even cement slabs and bearing walls on rigid foundations are moving, just not with the same amplitude usually. In areas like Las Vegas where there is rather strong Earth motion you can feel the vibration on the walls with the palm of your hand. Most places you can’t feel it with your hand but it’s there, especially the very low frequency stuff, the stuff below 10 Hertz. That’s because the entire building is being moved and shaken by the Earth’s crust motion and anything else around like wind or traffic or subways. And it’s being shaken and moved in 6 different directions due to the way physical seismic waves travel along the surface of the Earth. Thus, the house is moving up and down, to and fro, back no forth as well as twisted, etc. Most of the energy of the Earth crust motion is down around 0 to 3 Hz, but there is still a lot up to 20 Hz and above. This of course means that in order to escape at least some of the seismic type vibration one needs to decouple from the physical surroundings entirely, including walls. Furthermore the effects of seismic type vibration don’t necessarily manifest themselves overtly, e.g., needle jumping from the groove, it can be more subtle and insidious. You don’t know what you got til it’s gone, like the song says.

hi geoff
your posts make for very in interesting reading, you very clearly understand isolation from all angles,
I had great improvements when placing my speakers on the seismic podiums, which as you pointed out are a product using springs,
The feet on my speakers are just thin plain discs,
Do you think or could you tell me by replacing these standard feet with larger Clearlight Audio RDC isolation cones size 1.2, would i be in for another level of sound improvements,
I use Seismic Isolation Podiums under my speakers and Seismic Isolation platforms with the rdc cones under all my electronics and mains block.
I am now experimenting with Shun Mook Mpingo Discs in various places, which i am enjoying and hearing different effects, thanks for making me aware of these,
When i remove the mpingo discs i can say with certainty i prefer the sound with them included in the system,
Its quite difficult to explain the improvements they bring, if pushed i would say realism across the board ie bass is better, instruments are clearly defined and vocals gain a human like texture, im not saying the sytem is lacking without the mpingo discs, but definitely improves with them,
I have also tried Final Duramas a bearing type isolation on top of the seismic isolation platforms, which brings tighter bass with more detailed mid and top end,
Over all i am having a great time trying different isolation types but im learning mixing springs with cones or bearings is bringing gains over just using either one, 
But no matter what i use springs with cones or springs with bearings the mpingo discs adds more flavor either way,
I am giving it all a good go, its finding the best places for the mpingo discs which is bringing the most fun, at the moment i have one on the main plug at my wall socket  that feeds my mains block, the other is facing down on my rcas that are coming out my cdp, badge towards equipment dot facing down at 6 oclock,
i have ordered more mpingo discs as they bring a nice flavor to my system, i am hoping to leave the 2 placed where i have already got them, and place the new 2 on my speaker terminals the same as positioned on my rcas,
I would like to place the mpingos on my equipment and speakers, and use the magic crystal products you sell on my speaker terminals and all other equipment connection points i can then find new homes for the 2 spare discs
the vibrations running threw the system are clearly not a good thing, i believe everything that can vibrate demands attention if one clearly wants the very best sound quality from ones system,
Would you kindly suggest a product that i could place on all my connection points ie cdp to pre, pre to power, power amp terminals to speakers i like the idea of laying them little crystal packs you sell i look forward to your reply kind regards john 
 

Geoffkait
This of course means that in order to escape at least some of the seismic type vibration one needs to decouple from the physical surroundings entirely, including walls. Furthermore the effects of seismic type vibration don’t necessarily manifest themselves overtly, e.g., needle jumping from the groove, it can be more subtle and insidious. You don’t know what you got til it’s gone, like the song says.

I wonder if if the recording studios account for seismic activity!?

I'm going to stabilize my rack and isolate my gear.
Kenny

It can be more subtle and insidious 

very true. I knew I had s seismic problem as I can feel the house shake with traffic but installing a solution that gets rid of it completely (at least for my turntable now it is on an active platform) was transformative. Everything is rock solid stable now and all sorts of subtle timing cues that were masked before are now evident. I've also seen the same effect installing roller based feet below my amps, oddly it made the amps sound less loud, presumably the effect of removing noise and harshness that is perceived as unacceptable loudness