Has anybody tried using single solid core cables?

I have been through the speaker wire journey and settled on DNM Stereo Precision speaker cables. DNM has used solid core copper in their designs since the beginning about 25+ years. If your amp uses feedback look into the HFTN add on and I'm pretty sure you will be very happy.
Do a searh they are worth looking into.
Good luck,

R

Innocent question: are the Anti Cables directional, I.e., do they come with arrows indicating direction of signal?
01-01-14: Geoffkait

Innocent question???
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They appear to be.

http://anticables.com/speaker-wires/2-channel#!/~/product/category=3449817&id=14618506

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Geoff - FWIW - the AntiCable interconnects I have ARE directionally marked. Don't have speaker cables from them (yet). I'm guessing those would be marked as well.

I see a difference between a conductor made up of several bare wires that are in direct contact with one another covered by a single insulation covering to that of several insulated solid core wires grouped together under a common jacket.

Hi Jim,

I do too, but I don't see that that conflicts with what I said. What I said, in essence, is that it would be misleading to refer to the AQ Indigo cable as either solid core or stranded, as those terms are generally used. It is neither.

All the best for 2014.

-- Al

Re the Indigo cable and the solid/stranded question, while a case could be made for referring to it as solid core, IMO (based on what I perceive to be the most common usages of the terms) cables employing any form of Litz construction (i.e., a single overall conductor consisting of a group of individually insulated conductors) should not be referred to as either solid core or stranded. It's simply a different animal than what both terms are generally used to refer to.
12-31-13: Almarg

Al,

I have to disagree with you on this one. I see a difference between a conductor made up of several bare wires that are in direct contact with one another covered by a single insulation covering to that of several insulated solid core wires grouped together under a common jacket.


Here is an example of a stranded wire conductor made up of several solid core bare wires covered by an insulation covering making up a single conductor. (Example, look at the 500 awg conductor. It is made up of 37 #12 awg bare solid core wires.)

Here is a 4 pair CAT6 data cable made up of 8 insulated #23 awg solid core wires.
If we were to connect all the bared copper ends together at each end we would now have a single conductor made up of 8 individually insulated #23 awg solid core wires.

If you go to the Audioquest and look at the DRAGON speaker cable you will see it is made up of 14 insulated solid core FPS silver conductors.

2) #21 awg Polyethylene insulated wires.
2) #21 awg Carbon Loaded Polyethylene insulated wires.

2) #19 awg Polyethylene insulated wires.
2) #19 awg Carbon Loaded Polyethylene insulated wires.

3) #17 awg Polyethylene insulated wires.
3) #17 awg Carbon Loaded Polyethylene insulated wires.

I see the raw cable as a 14 conductor multi wire cable.

Jim

Innocent question: are the Anti Cables directional, I.e., do they come with arrows indicating direction of signal?

Thanks, Kijanki. Good analogy.

A slight correction to my previous post. When I said:

Now a case could be made that damping factors above a few tens of ohms are overkill with most speakers ....

Damping factors are of course not measured in ohms. They are a ratio of two values that are each measured in ohms, so they have no units. Therefore delete the words "of ohms" from the quoted sentence.

A happy and healthy 2014 to all,
-- Al

Al, perhaps you're right (as usual) because if there is any chance of smearing sound because of small cable resistance vs frequency change (caused by skin effect) when wire is too thick, then it has to apply to changing (vs. frequency) impedance of the speaker loading, when wire is too thin.

Perhaps solid gauge 14 can be a compromise (AQ type 4 etc) without paying too much.

Happy New Year!

Hi Jea48

Sorry for the confusion (trying to be genderless by use of [their] rather than
[his]). I was not saying AQ claimed to use stranded wire. I was referring to the
OP's description: [My question before I ditch my multi-stranded Audioquest
Indigo cables....]. Multiple solid conductors vs multiple stranded conductors vs
single solid core and their equivalency or lack thereof appears to be the issue.

Re the Indigo cable and the solid/stranded question, while a case could be made for referring to it as solid core, IMO (based on what I perceive to be the most common usages of the terms) cables employing any form of Litz construction (i.e., a single overall conductor consisting of a group of individually insulated conductors) should not be referred to as either solid core or stranded. It's simply a different animal than what both terms are generally used to refer to.

As for the OP feeding his speakers with only one solid core #18 ga wire for each + and - terminal I would not think that would work too well for the sound of the speakers or for the amp. I will leave the technical why nots to Almarg and Kijanki.

I agree, as indicated in my earlier post, unless perhaps the cables are unusually short. Simply put, the resistances of typical lengths of 18 gauge speaker cable are high enough to conceivably/perhaps/maybe under some circumstances result in sonic effects that are at least slightly audible.

First, the combined resistance of the two conductors in a 10 foot run of 18 gauge solid core wire is about 0.128 ohms. For the OP's nominally 4 ohm speaker impedance, that would limit the damping factor seen at the speaker terminals to no more than 31, no matter how high the amplifier's damping factor may be.

Now a case could be made that damping factors above a few tens of ohms are overkill with most speakers, and that happens to be my opinion FWIW. But I don't consider my opinion to be the last word on the subject, and a lot of audiophiles and designers believe otherwise.

Second, when cable resistance is high enough to constitute a non-negligible fraction of speaker impedance, the interaction of that resistance with the speaker's impedance vs. frequency characteristics may conceivably affect tonal characteristics. 0.128 ohms is 3.2% of 4 ohms. Is 3.2% a "non-negligible fraction"? I don't know. But it seems high enough to suggest that it would be best to not take any chances, given that the percentage can be easily reduced.

On the other hand, I am aware that over the years there has been some advocacy for narrow gauge solid core speaker wire, even 20 or 22 gauge. I believe some of the writers at the British publication HiFi News & Record Review advocated for that twenty or more years ago. While I don't doubt that in SOME systems the results of that approach may be subjectively preferable, I would have to think that what is happening in most of those cases is that the cable is altering the sound in a way that is complementary to the colorations of the rest of the system. In other words, IMO it amounts in most cases to applying a band-aid.

Happy New Year to all!

-- Al

Great question!! I've tried the expensive firehoses, multi-threaded, and the stuff from Home Depot - yes, the solid core - I think it's the 14 gauge. The solid core from the hardware store wasn't bad, but I much preferred the solid core Anti Cables. I currently use MapleShade Helix solid core. Very small gauge compared to the Anti Cables, but both sound good. And the price is right too! More than the solid core from Home Depot, but for $150 or so, you get about a 12' pair.

Jea48, am I missing something here? The Indigo diagram at the link you
provided seems to show 8 strands of 17, 19, & 21 gauge solid copper conductors
per cable. Not a single solid conductor that the OP seemed to be interested in.
12-31-13: Ghosthouse

Look at the AQ Link again. Each of the solid core wires are individually insulated. If stranded each group of + and – would be bare wires with only a covering of insulation over each group.
The equivalent wire size for the Indigo cable is 12 ga.

As for the OP feeding his speakers with only one solid core #18 ga wire for each + and - terminal I would not think that would work too well for the sound of the speakers or for the amp. I will leave the technical why nots to Almarg and Kijanki.

SA Mantra 50 speakers.

This might explain their description of Indigo as being stranded.

Could you please point out where AQ says the Indigo uses stranded wire.

I suggest you reread Kijanki post again. What he says is basically what Bill Low of AQ has been saying for years.

AQ cable theory

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf
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Solid core singular conductors is why I prefer Cabledyne cables. They are also available in copper or silver wire. I have always found multiple or stranded conductor cables to sound phasey in the mid-high range.

Jea48, am I missing something here? The Indigo diagram at the link you
provided seems to show 8 strands of 17, 19, & 21 gauge solid copper conductors
per cable. Not a single solid conductor that the OP seemed to be interested in.
This might explain their description of Indigo as being stranded. I guess the less
desirable alternative would have been if the individual conductors themselves
had been stranded rather than solid. Have to say the number of cable offerings
from AudioQuest (current and archived) really has me scratching my head.
Could all those offerings really represent significant technical/sonic differences?

Jea48, good call on the Indigo. Maybe the OP has a counterfeit.
I'm another who has come back to solid core cables and at this stage am no longer searching. My preference is copper and am happy with the older Audioquest cables such as Crystal or any in that vein.
Not sure about using household wiring but if you have it on hand and are curious, give it a try and let us know.

I'm not sure why cables have to be thick since speaker source impedance for back EMF is mostly resistive but it will lower inductance of straight wire. Skin effect starts at gauge 18 in copper at 20kHz. Stranding wires will make it worse because current will flow toward outside jumping from strand to strand thru impurities while skin effect still exists. Better solution is to use insulated strands. Placing them in regular fashion puts them in magnetic field of each other still allowing some skin effect. Better solution is to place them either on hollow tube (like in Indigo) or as a tape so that each strand is only in magnetic field of neighboring strands. I don't know what is audible and what is not but Indigo was great improvement over thick stranded Monster Cable (that was plain horrible). Later I found Indigo to be thin sounding and replaced it with Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun that I will likely keep forever. It is total of gauge 6 and I have no idea why.

Another + for the Clear Day Double Shotgun speaker cables.
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My question before I ditch my multi-stranded Audioquest Indigo cables in favor of 4 individual single solid core 18 gauge cobber cables from Home Depot for my newly acquired SA Mantra 50s, has anyone tried using single solid core wires?
Arcamadeus

The AQ Indigo+ is solid core construction.
http://www.audioquest.com/archives/

Speaker cables >> Spiraled Hyperlitz >> Indigo+
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12-30-13: Charles1dad
I try to avoid all encompassing statements or proclamations as there are always exceptions.

+1. Well said, Charles. To me the main usefulness of an unequivocal all-encompassing statement such as the one quoted by the OP, that not only excludes the possibility of exceptions but also fails to take into account the possibility that component dependencies may be involved, is that it helps to (negatively) calibrate the credibility of the person making the statement.

Arcamadeus, I'm not sure from your post if you mean four 18 gauge wires total (one for + and one for - on each speaker), or four wires for each speaker (two for + and two for -), or possibly even four wires for + and another four for - on each speaker.

Given the low impedance of your speakers (nominally 4 ohms, but most likely lower than that at some frequencies), if the length of the run is typical, say 6 to 12 feet, I would recommend that you use at least two of the 18 gauge wires for each polarity (+ and -). Or else use heavier gauge wire.

Also, you may find that you obtain better upper treble extension if you twist the + and - conductors together, say 3 or 4 times per foot. That will lower inductance, which if the + and - solid core conductors are physically separated might be high enough in relation to the speaker impedance to have perceptible effects in the upper treble region. The longer the run, the greater the likelihood of that effect being audibly significant.

Regards,
-- Al

I have the Clear Day solid core silver speaker cables. I also have the Morrow SP-6 and Anti-Cables. The Clear Day is much much better than the Anti-Cables and better than the Morrows.

YMMV but I also prefer solid core.ClearDay works best for me.I actually did hook up some 12 gage Romex(house wire) as speaker cables out of curiosity one day.The result was a smooth sound and no dynamics.Just as well,that stuff is so hard to work with!

Yes, I now use solid core silver cables all around and my experience mirrors what Charles just said.

Arcamadeus,
I try to avoid all encompassing statements or proclamations as there are always exceptions.
I will say I presently use solid core silver IC and speaker cables(bare wire to the speaker and amplifier terminals)and they are beautifully natural sounding, a joy and an asset to have in my system.
Charles,

Might be a dumb question (wouldn't be my first) but isn't solid core part of Paul
Speltz's story re his Anti-Cables? The virtue of solid core is not a new assertion,
I don't think...although it is often coupled with high purity, continuously cast,
"single crystal" claims as well.

I, too, have found and prefer, solid core cables to stranded. Also, try and forgo the connectors and go bare wire (commando, for those who eschew underwear) since all connectors impart their own sound signature.

All the best,
Nonoise

I have found solid core copper sounds better than stranded based on my experiments both as speaker cable and hook up wire inside tube amps.

Stranded is softer with less focus and reduced dynamics. This is something I have heard in my DIY cables and branded cables. Just my experience.

I've been wanting to try it out for years. I have rolls of solid core 12 gauge house wire doing nothing. No spades, just fold a loop around a pair of needle nose pliers and try it out.
Would'nt it be a pisser if I liked it better...?
Tears of sorrow or tears of joy...?
-John