I terminated my Belden interconnect cable with Canare F10 RCA plugs last night. My experience with these RCA plugs is that they need 150 hours to break in. They are in my back room system breaking in for about the next week. I may have mentioned this already but after listening to WE16ga terminated with both Switchcraft and Canare F10 plugs I much preferred the Canare F10 plugs - In my system noticeably more expressive room filling mid range. Regards Jet
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jetrexpro - As I looked through some previous posts, I saw that you ordered some 1/4" braided shielding. Forgive me if I missed it, but I could not locate your findings on shielded vs. unshielded WE 16 GA ICs. Or whether the Canare F-10s sounded better to you on the shielded or unshielded version. Any information on this would be appreciated. |
maxima95, I have not tried it yet. Will try it pretty soon. |
Just finished a power cord using double runs of WE 10awg twisted pair wire for an aggregate wire size of 7awg to each the positive and negative legs. I retwisted the four 10awg wires in a star-quad configuration so the two positive wires are across from each other when looking at the four twisted wires. The single ground wire is twisted in the opposite direction outside of the four current-carrying wires. I used a Furutech FI-11 (Cu) plug and iec. Since this is for a single large stereo power amplifier (300 wpc) I did not shield the cable since my experience is that, unless you have noisy conditions, power cords for power amplifiers sound better unshielded, although I do like to shield them for front-end and digital components. The cord is on the cable cooker and will be tried out later tonight where it will replace a very nice-sounding Furutech FP-Alpha 3 cord with Oyaide P79 connectors. |
I tried 22g western electric solid core as interconnects. 2 runs per each pos and neg leg and Switchcraft RCA plugs. Didn't like them in my system. Monochromatic- instruments sounded same with no individual color or timbre. I didn't have an interest in tweeking them to see if they could sound better. Once I heard them after three weeks for burn in I pulled them apart and have saved the Switchcraft RCA for a later use. Perhaps I should have tried them with one run per leg. Jet |
Heading out of town for a week but before I left want to give an update on Belden ICs terminated with Canare F10 RCA plugs. I think the mids open up and breathe a bit with the Canare. Bigger more spacious mids without losing the natural sound of the Belden /switchcraft combo. I won't characterize this as good or bad just food for thought. These things are system dependent but I do like the sound. Regards and happy holidays to all! Jet |
I finished my preamp and it is just wonderful sounding. It is clearly better than the LDR passive I am using as an attenuator in my tube preamp. I have compared the two and I can share the LDR on its own is missing the dynamics and scale of the active. The active gives nothing up in resolution....nothing at all. It simply improves the overall sound with a much bigger and robust presentation of the music. |
For my home theater, like Brownsfan, I need long, continuous runs and TeresaJacobs on Ebay has sold out all the long runs. I would like to hear comments regarding the manufacturing year of the WE cables. Some sellers, like “soundofthetheater” on Ebay have WE14ga made in 1999, a couple years before American Insulated Wire went out of business. Is this kind of “late vintage” wire as good as the older ones? They should be at least similar based on specs but maybe not sonic wise. So far, the most impressive types has been the WE16ga for interconnect with Canara F10 and the WE10ga for power cords with Furutech FI-28. The Belden 8402 sounds good but IME is not on the same league as, e.g. Jupiter’s Cotton 6N Copper. Maybe I need more burn in with the 8402. FYI I have the following power cords variants with WE10ga ready for testing which may take a very long time as I don’t have a cable cooker: 1a. Unshielded, dual wire twisted, no sleeve (like Jeff Day) All cords are 6ft long and terminated with Furutech FI-11 (cu) which is pretty good and affordable for such a test. Will report back after the long test. mitch2: how does the double wired WE10ga power cord sound vs the single runs and how do you connect the culminated 7ga on an AC plug or IEC a they are made mostly up to 8ga max. |
Bill I forgot to mention that the Canare F10 sound awful before they are burned in so give them 10 days of burn in time. Also I wanted to answer your question - on both the Belden and WE wire I think the Canere plugs added layering and depth to the mid ranges of both cables. But at least for me it doesn't transform either cable into something they are not. Jet |
Bill, happy to hear that!
Which connectors did you use? Many manufacturers braid the power cords like LossLess and I find this, so far, better than the non or twisted versions. I will stick to WE10ga for power, although the version 4 I made with 16ga and a double run of just the hot in a thin plastic tube (it should be called version 4a) sounds nice with my DAC. I can well image if the WE16ga is stripped and put in the tube with cotton it will even sound nicer. A 1,000ft roll of WE 14ga (late vintage 1999) is heading my place - Ho ho ho! - for my home theater, nice project replacing the very long runs of in-wall speaker wires during the break. |
Jet, thanks so much for your suggestion of the Canare RCA connectors. They are just wonderful filling my room with beautiful and enveloping mids. I do prefer them to the Switchcraft to be sure. They are so very inexpensive also! Just a nice upgrade to an already fantastic cable. I find the highs and upper mids are smoother with absolutely no loss in detail. Fills my space with more layers of mids as if the stage is now some 25% larger. Most interesting. These connectors are under $4 each! |
Glad to hear of your results with the Canare f10 RCA plugs Grannyring. As I mentioned above Belden IC users should also experience the same result if they try the Canare in place of the Switchcraft RCA. In a few days I'll install your shielding on one set of my western electric ICs and see how they sound in my system. Jet. |
Maxima95 and Grannyring- after several days with about 100 hours of burn in and listening time on the WE16ga interconnects with Canare f 10 RCA plugs and shielding that is terminated at both ends its time for a report. At this point in the burn in process I am hearing what Grannyring hears. They are smoother and less forward than my WE16ga interconnects that are unshielded. The unshielded version has always sounded a bit rough around the edges but I didn’t care since I felt they were so good at conveying a sort of unbridled musicality. The shielded versions sound very musical at this point and add a refinement and smoothness that I like so far. The mids are smooth and beautiful. I am with Grannyring- Jeff Day missed out by not trying the shield although threading the cables through the shield and then the heat shrink was a major pain. I don’t know how long it takes for the shielding to burn in. Since the cables and RCA plugs are fully burned in the only variable is the shield. Regards and happy new year! Jet |
You're welcome. Glad to share my observations. One more thing I am noticing about the WE16g shielded interconnects is that the sound seems more pure, less noise, Quieter background. I guess all of this makes sense since the shield must make this happen. I am thinking that which version of this interconnect one would prefer, shielded vs unshielded would be system and ear dependent. |
Bill, thanks for your tip, I ordered a while ago the same stuff through PartsConnexion as the Neotech were also discounted there as I stocked up on my favorite Furutech F11 during PC annual 25% end of year discount. I will also have the cheap SonicCraft rhodium and red copper plugs to compare. Just used the downtime during these days to replace my HT surround and back speaker cables with the WE14ga and they made a positive difference compared to the Audioquest FLX14/4 in-wall speaker cables, even w/o burn in. The most difficult part was not threading the new wire but to twist them (reducing inductance, less prone to EMI); it is super easy for a 10ft length -using the drill- but requires a different approach doing a 60ft stretch. As for interconnects, I haven’t heard any decent one that is not shielded. I guess those at Jeff Day’s forum tend to cling nostalgically to the "vintage" sound and gear. Nothing wrong as such, some vintage gear still sound great. I remembered when I built my first tube amp some forty years ago, I wasn’t sure if it included a tiny radio that remained invisible in the schematics... |
Hi all. I now have 100% WE 10 ga wire power cords throughout my system and just love them. I simply used a 10 gauge run for ground, hot, and neutral. No shielding of any kind and a simple twisting of the three wires. Highly recommended. I also use this same gauge for speaker wire which I liked even more than the outstanding 16ga. |
Hi Grannyring, thanks for the update. I'm going to do same, see how it does in my system. I really like the WE10ga as power cord. Also thanks for the Canare suggestion. Early on Yazaki-san also recommend the Canare. Recently my brother got to compare the WE16ga against his favorite speaker cables (will remain nameless, but very expensive) with his Leben/Devore 0/96/Harbeth SHL5s and was blown away by the WE/Belden combo (me too!). The Bro' is making the switch. Best, Rob |
Playing with speaker cables and amplifiers this morning. Have four sets here I have been switching between; -fine stranded OCC copper wire, 12awg/run-bi-wired; -multi-strand, 24awg, OCC solid-core copper in PE @ 11awg aggregate/run-bi-wired; -multi-strand, braided, high-purity solid-core, copper in cotton@12awg/MF-HF and 10awg/LF; -Star-quad twisted WE16 and WE14 with 13awg/MF-HF and 11awg/LF. Surprised, I was (saw Star Wars yesterday) that I liked the WE wire best, at least today. There is just something about this wire that sounds real, fleshed out, and smooth all at the same time. I am sure that a bi-wire set with 13/11 awg is large enough for a 2M run but I will probably try this in the 10awg wire, just because I have some. I think I will do the star-quad twist to provide 7awg to the low frequencies and simply use the already twisted pair at 10awg for the MF-HF. I could then switch and put the 7awg on the MF-HF just for fun and to hear how it sounds. Anyway, just thought I would share how this stuff continues to amaze. |
Thanks for the update Tim! I was planning to try the multi-stranded 24awg speaker cable but now can easily add the bi-wiring to my existing WE10 ones. Unfortunately, the HFC SC is still better in terms of speed, dynamics and detail. As for PC, my test is still not over but so far I like my variant 3a (unshielded, 3 braided WE10ga) best, the variant 3b (same, but shielded) in one particular application (my CDP). I haven't started testing variant 4 which is what manufacturers like Audience (only for the AU24 series) and probably Craig Hampel are deploying. Just started putting different plugs on the variant 3a, I think I prefer the rhodium ones (Furutech FI28) over copper (FI11). Hopefully the SonarQuest rhodium version, that comes at a fraction of the FI28, would be a close one. |
Grannyring, Jet, why not write Jeff Day about your new findings with the various different WE gauge, terminations such as Canare f10 and shielding, etc. I believe Jeff and many of his blog reader's including Shirokazu Yazaki-san would be immensely impressed and fascinated by what you have discovered. Jazz, you and Mitch2 as well. Best, your fanboy, Rob |
Hi Rob, I just haven't thought about posting anything on Jeffs site. Honestly I don't post much of anything on any site except this one and occasionally on the tube DIY AA when I have a question. Incidentally I bought 80ft of the 10g WE stranded from tajacobes a few weeks ago and they have been burning in my 2nd system. It's enough to make biwire runs for my ANe's. I'll report back over the weekend. This wire is huge! |
Grannyring, Jet, hear you. Likely Day spends some time here. I know he was impressed by your work; I'm positive he is also pressed for time and deadlines. Perhaps that is why Day can not experiment to umpteenth degree and sometimes misses out; but I for one have improved my musical pursuit by learning from Day, Yazaki-san, and you and Jet, Charles1Dad. I trust all your ears and skill, plus you are good folks willing to help others. Best, Rob |
Guys, I spent 3 weeks burning in and five days listening to 10ft runs of WE10g stranded speaker wire. My speakers are Audio Note ANe's which are Bi Wired so I used four 10 ft. runs on each speaker. The speaker taps on my Audio Note output transformers are in direct contact with the bare 10g wire. After all of that burn in time and 5 days of listening, the 10gWE stranded wire sounded very thick, too rich and slow and it did not improve over the five days. After a few days of no improvement, I stripped off some more insulation from the AN output tranny's 8ohm taps and wrapped the additional tranny wire tightly and securely around the un-terminated 10g wire but still no improvment. Once I reinstalled the 16g WE stranded wire the balance and musicality returned. Not sure why the 10g wire sounded so bloated. Maybe the combination of warm sounding AN speakers and warm sounding 300b tubes and the 10g wire was just too much. I am not giving up on WE10g and have some additional ideas as to why they didn't sound good. But for now I am going to enjoy my great sounding 16gWE stranded speaker wire - Regards Jet. |
Thanks Jet for that report. So far I'm using the WE10ga as power cord from wall with Oyaide R-1 and plate set-up to a Cable Pro power strip with no limiting factors. My Coincident Dynamo 34SE is Connected to the Cable Pro via WE10ga. The Transport and DAC are connected to the same strip via WE14ga. WowWowWow!!! Beautiful tone, texture, emotion, dynamics, soundstage wall to wall, great scale, deep, as well. Nicely layered. The harmonic rightness is spectacular. Male and female voices to die for. No hum, buzz, black background and much, much, more...Synergistic Red Fuses next... |
This may be why Jeff Day and others using lower powered amplifiers enjoy the 16awg wire while folks like me, with powerful SS amps, enjoy the larger gauge wires. Those who believe in skin effect for speaker cables would say there is a higher likelihood of hearing it with 10awg wire than with 16awg wire, even though both are stranded. Keep in mind, this wire is tinned, not discretely coated with epoxy, like Cardas wire. IOW, the strands in this WE wire are electrically connected unlike Cardas wire where each strand is discrete. Therefore, this wire is likely to behave more like a single large solid core wire than multiple 30awg wires. I don't believe in skin effect for the short lengths of our speaker cables so IMO and FWIW, the difference is likely related to the amplifiers, power, and sonic characteristics of the speakers. The 16awg wire may sound a touch quicker and slightly more "lit-up" while the 10awg wire may sound a little richer and fuller sounding, especially when used with high powered amplifiers. An alternative is to braid or twist multiple 16awg and/or 14awg WE wires, which I have done with success in my system. |
Jet - That is disappointing re: the 10 ga. I bought some to try as SC and PC. Have not done so yet. I use different systems at different times. I currently have 2A3s set up and single wire, but bi-wire using much more powerful amps (SS or Hybrid) with the rest. Did you try 16 ga on the high end and 10 ga on the low? Regards |
Rob, Thanks for the update on the success of your WE power cables. If this 10ga doesn't work out as speaker cable I may build power cables with it. Maxima95, I have not tried 16ga on the tweeter and 10ga on the woofer. What kind of speakers are you using with your 2a3 amp? Are you using 16ga WE speaker cable with it? Mitch2, I was thinking about what I might be doing wrong that could be creating the bloated sound of the 10ga WE wire. One thought I had was to borrow my friend's solder pot and dip the amp end of the 10ga wire into it which would assure that my transformer wire is in good contact with the wire...although this might have the opposite affect. My Soldering gun is not hot enough to solder 10ga wire. A solder pot will definitely do the job. Another thought I had was to try a single run of 10ga instead of bi-wire. These are all food for thought and I have no idea how any of this will work and to tell the truth I am in love with the sound of my system and have little motivation to try new things these days. The C3m driver tubes and Audio Note Kaisei capacitors I am using in my 300b amp are singing and for my taste in sound, don't want to alter too much from what I have. But having said that I am curious about 10ga WE wire. Regards and thank you to all - Jet. |
Jetrexpro, It is a wonderful happening when you get to your state of satisfaction with an audio system. I'm there with my second/office system. After changing out the stock capacitors for Arizona Green/NOS stock Mallory capacitors and select Ohmite Brown Devil resistors plus WE wire all suggested by Yazaki-san and replacing all the stock tubes, Oyaide wall outlets and plate I believe I am done, save for experimenting with the Synergistic Red or Black fuse. Then the only other temptation is to up the ante and acquire new speakers? But that will require a much larger amount of cash to top what the Tekton's do. I find a lot of satisfaction in putting together killer second system that compares or beats much of the high price stuff. This particular set-up I have does that. Best, Rob |
Jet - I am using slightly modified Klipsch LaScalas (aftermarket crossover and tweeter(s). I use WE 14ga to wire the midrange to the xover and WE 16ga for the tweeter. I have tried other wires but am liking the balance with the WE so far. I tried the WE 16 for the speaker wires (bare) and have had them in and out. I will try them again sometime. I have some Rhodium/copper spades and some gold/copper bananas I could try as well. I may not even bother with the WE 10ga for the 2A3s. I made a PC for the DAC with WE 14ga for the H/N and a piece of 8ga wire I had laying around for the ground. I used these connectors: http://www.sonarquest.net/carbon-edition/rhodium-plated/sonarquest-carbon-fiber-series-rhodium-plate... I take it out periodically to try something else; but I keep putting it back in! I have all of these projects in mind for the WE wire I have. The only stumbling block is the execution. |
I have purchased WE10GA for the power cords. I saw on this forum somewhere building guide of the the power cables. Have someone a link for a good building guide of the cables? And I have WE10GA in pair lengths , can I use for the ground wire normal copper AWG10-8 cord for the ground , or is there a advantage of using same WE10GA ? I have some WE14GA leftovers if its necessary. I want to use this on my Pass XA160.5 , Pass XP20, DAC la Scala MKII |
slowikpl, building PC and speaker cables are well outlined on Chris VenHaus website, as well as on DIYaudio. Like Grannyring, my best experience is to twist all three wires together (LessLoss is one example of PC manufacturer that does it too) with no shielding for most applications. Re ground wire, as a general rule, I always use the same type for all three. |
Hi group. Seems I am moving and will have lost my dedicated music room. The new space requires our stereo to be in the living room. I cannot have all the rectangular boxes, as my wife says, in this room. That said, I have made up some nice WE 10ga cords that I will no longer need. They are broken in a ready for prime time. Feel free to contact me to talk about it . |
Grannyring, I am very interested in your power cords. How do I contact you? My ignorance at navigating sites is showing! I switched to WE14ga speaker wire and Belden interconnects and love them, but it looks like I need to try WE10ga IC's and PC's now. Gotta love such great options at such reasonable prices. Jeff's site has been very helpful and I love the further experimention occurring here even more. On a side note, after switching to the WE and Belden cables I've subsequently switched from the Odyssey Kismet Monoblocks to a little vintage Magnavox 9304 tube amp and I'm loving it. I'm using NOS RCA, Amperex and Mullard tubes from Vintage Tube Services. I'm hearing details and air I've never heard before. I'll soon go to a vintage tube amp in the 40-60 WPC range, but I'm not in a rush as I'm thoroughly enjoying this little 10 WPC Magnavox. Anyone else using this little amp? Any suggestions for my future vintage tube amp? thanks, tom |