Give Up on Bacch?

@blisshifi Yes, I do want to be convinced and so my disappointment was confounded. 

I spoke with Edgar this morning (I don't know where he finds time for his day-job at Princeton).  He said the trial period runs 14 days from installation, not the ship date although that's what the website says.  In any event I will install the Bacch system and have enough time to evaluate it.  I'll post my thoughts afterwards.  

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

@audiophilejunkey Check the return policy footnote on the Theoretica Bacch4Mac Web page.  It states in black and white that the return window is 14 days from their ship date.  That being said, Edgar readily gave me 14 days from implementation.

I suspect that my experience at Axpona was unfortunate.  I say that because on Friday I got to the Theoretica room about 11am.  I was only there a few minutes when Edgar had to leave to give a presentation downstairs.  I don't know who was left minding the shop, but there were no a/b demos or individual calibrations.  Judging from the comments above I think that I unfortunately missed the more revealing demo Edgar was doing.  I wish I'd known as I would have come back.

@cundare2 I thought your post was funny. 

Seriously, I'll let my ears decide.  If the audio experience (not necessarily the SQ) is as reported I will keep it.  The narrowness and longitudinal shape of the sweetspot is a nagging problem, but one I was aware of beforehand.  I want my wife to have the same experience, although she graciously said not to worry about her.  We'll see.

Man, this has been painful.  Installation was Monday and Edgar himself called me.  We didn't get far because a) my Peachtree Gan1 requires a coax which the RME supplied with the Bacch system does not support.  I have an old analog HK Signature power amp, but that was no good either because the Bacch wants to output balanced.  No go.

b) Edgar assumes that his customer will reside in the Apple universe.  I do not.  I made a decision  45 years ago not to succumb to Apple's nanny state.  I maintain that stance.  The practical consequence is that I do not have an iPad or iPhone to control the Mac Mini, nor do I have a suitable keyboard. 

Edgar said that he doesn't know anything about Android and that I am on my own,, although he said there are apps that may be helpful.  I ordered a cheap Monoprice xlr to rca interconnect and agreed to reschedule the install.

Where to begin?  First, I would have to sell my Ric Schultz-modded Peachtree  Gan1 that I like very much.  Either that or spend $1000 just for the coax interconnect.

Second, I guess I have to buy an Apple keyboard just for the setup.

Third, yes, there are apps for Android devices to control Mac Mini's remotely, but the best ones cost $30/month.  There are other options, but you need to be computer savvy.  I'm not an idiot, but this is distinctly unpleasant.  I am over my head.

I wanted to be convinced to keep the Bacch4Mac system, but I'm afraid that there are too many hurdles.  I will unfortunately not get to implementation. 

Not much of a report.  Sorry.  I'm thoroughly bummed.

The Bacch4Mac is up and running, sort of, but I need some more advice.  First, though, I'd like to make clear the Edgar is a pleasure to work with.  He is patient and, of course, very knowledgeable.

I'll keep it and explain the pros and cons for me later, but because I am going to keep it there are some consequent choices to be made.  First, I had to swap out my modded Gan1 power dac for an old HK Signature power amp.  I could either upgrade the Babyface Pro interface for $1100 to get a coax out that the Gan1 requires.  Alternatively, I could sell or repurpose the Gan1 and buy a power amp that supports an xlr input from the Babyface pro.  I have in mind Orchard Starcrimson monoblocks.  TMR has a used pair for $1500.  I like the modded Gan1 very much but am open to an alternative.  However, I have no experience with other power amps.

Second, I had to disconnect my sub  as the Babyface pro has no sub-out.  I really need the sub as the speakers are Spendor SP3/5r2 (newer version of ls3/5a).  Edgar said I could route the speakers through the sub using its high-pass filter, but this would be suboptimal because of the crossover: having a digital crossover integrated with the Bacch dsp would be better.  The Babyface pro upgrade mentioned above would allow me to integrate the sub with the dsp digital crossover.

Thus, the $1100 Babyface pro upgrade would allow me to keep the Gan1 and better integrate the sub.  Is it worth it?  Is the sub's high-pass filter sufficient?  Maybe I should take this opportunity to try another power amp and put the $1100 toward that end.

Your thoughts would be helpful.  Edgar's solution is simple: just upgrade the Babyface pro.  End of story.  However, I'm not sure.  I really could use a dealer to work with and advise me.  That's not the role Edgar wants to play, nor should he.

There are other issues the Bacch implementation prompts, such as the streamer, the dac and the webcam.  But I'll post about them later.  And then there are  my initial impressions of sound quality.  Like just about everything concerned with the Bacch, the answer is complicated.  More later.  Thanks.

I have hesitated to comment on the effect of the Bacch system on "sound quality" because I'm not sure what I'm hearing,  or if I'm striving to hear what I think I am supposed to hear.  Or if my ears are just too new to this sound to discern and process it.  I'll try to be more clear.  Edgar steered me to an article he published in The Absolute Sound  recently:

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/going-spatial/

Here is a crucial part:  "Spatial music is music in which the spatial aspect of sound—the perceived location, extent, and movements of sound sources in surrounding space—is more or less equal in stature to the traditional aspects, or elements, of music—pitch, timbre, texture, volume/dynamics, attack/duration/decay, melody, rhythm, and form. We shall call this traditional aspect of music canonical and contrast it with the spatial."  Until now I thought of sound quality as the traditional aspects plus imaging and soundstage.   The later two are spacial, to be sure, but Edgar defines spacial sound with seven terms, such as reverb, envelopment and depth/proximity.  Bacch leaves the traditional aspects alone and focuses on the seven aspects of spacial sound.

So, as I started listening to music played through the Bacch system I was trying to identify and evaluate these seven aspects of spacial sound.  I didn't get far, but I fully admit that the sound may have been there but I didn't know how to discern what I was listening to.

My initial impression is that the spacial effects are highly dependent on the quality of the recording.   Most of the tracks I listened to didn't sound different (to be sure, I did not A/B the tracks although I believe Bacch can be toggled on and off).  Tracks from the Gotan Project (Argentine tango) was a striking exception.  I believe I was hearing spacial segregation, motion and extension/resolution although I can't be sure at this point.  It's just too new to me.

Was I hearing all these things Edgar said to look for, or did I just want to hear them?  I don't know,  but for me at least sticking with Bacch will lead down a long learning curve.  Worth it?  Maybe.

@mahgister What you write is an affirmation that Edgar is on the right track and that investing time, money and effort to train my ears (my brain, actually) is worth it.  It was a bit of a shock to realize that a conceptual framework, new vocabulary and experience applying both are necessary for perception.