Fivechannelguy: Herbie's no longer carries the larger 1 3/8 in. "grungebuster" balls. The web site advertised them as suitable replacements for the Gingko "Cloud" platform. My hunch is that they found the "MedicinBall" to be a better match with the Gingko platform and discontinued the larger "grungebuster" ball.
Regards,
Tom |
Tketcham,
I checked Herbies website twice. They offer 5/8, 7/8 and 1 inch balls. You said you put in 1-3/8 inch grungebuster balls with disappointing results. Are you sure they are that size or am I not finding it on the website? The wrong size ball in the divot would probably cause problems.
Jon |
Fivechannelguy: the results you found replacing the Gingko balls with Herbie's "MedicinBall"s are different than when I tried Herbie's 1-3/8 in. "grungebuster" balls. I found that the "grungebuster" ball diminished the liveliness and resolution of the turntable, creating a darker presentation. So I went back to using the stock Gingko balls. I did place two additional balls (more than recommended by Gingko) and that helped to both stabilize the movement of the top plate and provide a more airy, lively sound.
Perhaps the additional density/firmness of the "MedicinBall" compared to the "grungebuster" ball is why you found an improvement over the Gingko ball. It may provide a (somewhat) similar effect as adding Gingko balls. If I have some extra cash and want to experiment I might try the "MedicinBall".
Regards,
Tom |
Suteetat,
Thank you for your detailed comparison. |
Hmmm... I have been playing around comparing gingko Cloud and Symposium Ultra a bit in my system using Microseiki/FR64s/Koetsu and VPI Classic 3/Dyna XV-1s . Microseiki is used with Symposium junior roller or spike feet on Linn Skeet and VPI Classic 3 with Bearpaw brass cones/Linn Skeet (BearPaw came with brass plate that have cork wood under it so I think that it would not work all that well with Symposium Ultra).
The result is quite consistant with both turntable. Gingko has lusher, fuller midrange, more on sweeter, warmer tone and somewhat softer sound. Symposium has excellent bass slam, speed, detail. However, I feel the midrange went a bit beyond neutral to lean, and somewhat dry presentation. Both give blacker background.
My Symposium Ultra is a bit too small for my TW but my guess would be that it would match better with my Reed 3Q but might be a bit too much of a good thing with Graham arm though. |
I just replaced the standard Gingko blue balls with Herbies Audio Labs MedincinBalls in my Gingko platform underneath my Scoutmaster. The MedicinBalls are firmer. The result is a firmer platform. This has produced a noticeable improvement in clarity, detail and better focus in the soundstage. I had a temporary wobble that existed only when the tonearm came down on the record. This has been greatly reduced. I also placed Herbie's fat dots underneath the feet of the motor for greater absorption. I may compare my Gingko with the Ultra Platform sometime in the future but the $80 I just spent was money well spent. |
My Ultra and Super Scoutmaster Ref. rimdrive sits directly on top shelf of a Billy Bags rack. |
Hello,
I am considering a 18X24 Ultra Platform for my Super Scoutmaster rim drive.
I have a question. What kind of footers are under the Ultra Platform? Does it just lay flat on your shelf?
The top shelf of my rack is smaller than 18X24. I am currently using a 18X24X3 maple cutting board with cones installed on the bottom.
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
Tom |
Hmmm... I just tried Rollerblock junior with Tungsten G10 ball. Quite interesting. In comparison to spikes, I lost a bit of the impact and slam on the bass but the sound is more evenly from top to bottom, smoother, richer in the midrange.
I may have lost a touch of sparkle on top as well. The spikes that I used are aluminum, locally made, look kind of like Avalon spike. |
I just got reply from Peter who said that he would recommend roller block junior with g10 tungsten bearing over stacked coupler for my micro seiki.
I guess if your vpi has out board motor, it may have more problem with lateral movement but vpi classic or micro seiki, with on board motor, I don't expect problems with lateral movement except may be the first few seconds after turning the motor on |
I deal directly with Peter at Symposium for orders and advice. Roller blocks for turntables will not work under my VPI due to slight lateral movement. I use Symposium roller blocks under my CD transport. |
I went to my local Symposium dealer and looked like the rollerblock junior (the round one) will have enough clearance.
They don't have extra set of round couplers though.I think that will have to be special ordered. Symposium site mentioned using either coupler, roller block or cone but never said which work best for turntable. They have a picture of a VPI table using coupler stacked with rollerblock junior!
I sent them an email over the weekend about this and see what they would recommend. |
Suteetat, the round couplers are tapped in center to screw couplers together for greater height and clearance. This mates very well with the Symposium Ultra shelf. |
Suteetat, try Symposium Acoustics round couplers under your table instead of the speaker spikes. Call Symposium and speak with Peter for recommendation for your table with the Ultra. He will give you the best info on which coupler to use. |
Hmmm... I tried Symposium Ultra today with my Microseiki/FR 64s/Koetsu and the result was interesting. However, the only thing I had on hand that is tall enough to give clearance for the turntable is a set of aluminium speaker spikes.The bass cleaned up very nicely with more transient attack, better definition and more slam. Detail seems to be better as well. However, I lost a bit of the Koetsu lushness and warmth in the midrange. The midrange does becomes clearer, the smoothness is still there. I would say that the midrange is heading toward being aggressive but not quite there yet.
I guess I will have to experiment a bit more with the footers to maintain the improvement in the bass but does not lose the lush and warm midrange as well. |
Speak to Peter Bislewicz at Symposium Acoustics. I always found him to be very helpful and knowledgeable on this subject. |
Hi I haven't tried a Gingko...but did have several Symposium Ultras with my former system and used one nearly always with my SME 20/2 Table. The symosium ultra shelves always improved any gear I tried with it. Lowers the noise floor, increases the details, but in a very natural way...
I do think they require a hard interface between the component and teh shelf, so any kind of squishy feet isn't optimal. I doubt it will sound bad...just not optimal for their product to perform it's best...
Suteetat-any hard cone/foot under your TW should work just fine...my former SME 20/2 stock feet was ball bearing interface to the turntable...worked fantastic... |
The symposium rollerblock juniour's are taller than rollerblocks.Have a look at them on the symposium site.
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I think I definitely will try Symposium ULtra with my turntables. Unfortunately the one I have is a bit too small for my TW Raven AC1. I am thinking of trying it with my Micro Seiki first but I will need to find something taller than the couplers that came with the Ultra. Bear Paws have a wrong size thread on. Symposium Rollers are also too short. Would any kind of cone/spike feet work? Any suggestion would be appreciated. |
Symposium Ultra with Stealth top im using on my TW Raven AC1.Much bettter than anything else. |
I was asking about brass accepter for Bear Paws mainly because mine came with brass acceptors that have cork on the under side which I think would be a no no for Symposium as it want contacts that can transfer vibration down to Symposim platform rather than damping the vibration like rubber feet or the brass acceptors that came with my Bear Paws.
For gingko, the squash ball thing also will flatten out as well. They are quite specific about number of balls required for the weight of the turntable. |
I made a poor man's Ginko (sort of) using a maple butcher block and about a dozen squash balls between it and the stand shelf. I think it might work better than a Ginko for a VPI since the squash balls squish down and flatten to an extent. They do not remain hard and round like the racquet balls on the Ginko.
Anyway, it worked like a charm on my VPI clone.
http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1231696007.jpg |
Sutetat - The terra stone cones are quite a step up from the standard bear paws, both performance and cost wise. They come with a brass acceptor unit that the cone fits into , so the ultra wouldn't get scratched.
The terra stone cones have a built in levelling device as well which will have your table perfectly level.
Dan doesn't have pictures of the terra cones on his site. The design has changed. If , you email me , I can send pictures. gainermoon@yahoo.ca |
Hiendmuse - I did buy the Eden sound terra stone cones for my SSC about 1 month ago.Big improvement as already mentioned.
I will take your suggestion for the ultra and couplers. Thanks for all responses. |
Suteetat, my brass Bear Paws sit in small black anodized Symposium Acoustics couplers which have a center dimple in them for spiked feet. They work very well to bond Bear Paws to the Ultra shelf. I think you will like your Symposium Ultra under your table. |
Gingko's do NOT work well with VPI tables. As a matter of fact, they ruin the sound. VPI's must have a very solid support under them...even VPI's own minifeet have a detrimental effect. Use Bearpaws (Vermontaudio.com) and be thrilled at the improvement. I love the guys at Gingko,...they make wonderful dust covers, and their platforms may even be good on other turntables, but not on VPIs. |
Hiendmuse, quick question on Symposium and Bear Paws. Do you have the Bear Paws directly on Symposium Ultra or do you use Edensound's little plate underneath Bear Paws?
I have both Gingko and Symposium Ultra platform but never tried Symposium with my VPI as Symposium does not recommend using rubber footer with it. I recently got Bear Paws so that might be interesting to try.
I also find Gingko works well with VPI but have no idea if Symposium works significantly better or not as I never tried it. I uses Symposium with my CD player only. I have a little wobble only when the platter starts spinning but only for a few second then everything is steady afterward. This is on my VPI Classic though. |
Moon guy, 19 x 24 is what I use. I also highly recommend using Symposium Acoustics round couplers below the SAMA motor- 1 in front between the rubber feet and one in rear between the rubber feet. This eliminates any wobble from the standard rubber feet and gives better performance. Tighter bass, presentation. I also use Edensound Bear Paws instead of the VPI mini HRX feet. The above combo has really elevated the performance of this table. |
Thanks guys,
I have a Superscoutmaster as well with the gingko currently undrneath it.Hiendmuse-What size of ultra do you have. Would a 19x24 inch do for the ssc?
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Interesting question. I have a Gingko under my TT now, but have been considering Symposium. Have not noticed any "shaking" of the tonearm, but I also would be very interested in hearing from other people who have compared the two. |
I second Hiendmuse, go for the Symposium. I have both and the Symposium works best under a turntable exactly for the reason stated in his post. |
Definitely the Symposium Ultra Platform. I have the Ultra under my VPI Super Scoutmaster Reference rim-drive. I used to have a Gingko under my Super Scoutmaster before I upgraded to rimdrive and had to remove it. The Gingko had 2 separate platforms for the VPI- one for the table, and another for the motor. The platform under the turntable would move as it was supported by rubber balls, and cause the tonearm to wobble and shake when playing. Not a very well thought out product for this table. The Symposium Ultra improved performance and sound and eliminated shaking of the tonearm. This is a superior product IMO. |
