Just want to throw my opinion in on Tonearm cable. I have tried many high end (expensive) tonearm cables with my FR-64S Silver Wired/ Koetsu setup. I have not beat the Ikeda HBC-MS-5000DR. This was the stock cable that came with my Ikeda 407CR1 Tonearm. Liked it so much I changed the DIN and RCA connectors to Furutech CF. Weird thing is that there isn't anything special about the construction of this cable, good ol' copper.
FR66s vs Ikeda IT-407 CR tonearms
Has anyone compared the FR66s to the newer Ikeda IT-407 CR1 tonearm? Any thoughts? In previous years, the Ikeda was available with either copper or silver internal wiring but the recent models don't mention anything about the tonearm wiring. Can anyone comment what type of wiring is used in the latest editions? It would seem intuitive that the later Ikeda IT407 should be a better performer than the FR66s having improved material and bearings over the FR66s but the proof is in the hearing.
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I don’t know the source of Dover’s piece of information, but Ikeda San’s recommendations should always be taken seriously. Indeed, for my silver wired FR64S I get great results with Kimber KS-1216 copper tonearm cable into Ortofon T-3000 silver wired SUT (and from there again copper Phasemation CC-1000 to the phono preamp). There’s plenty of info here about matching cartridges. The FR64/66 series was designed for heavy low compliance systems like Ortofon SPU and of course their own FR7, but seems pretty universal in use. According to user reports it can handle just about anything, even high compliance MM’s. |
Kondo is too expensive! How about Crystal Silver Gold Alloy Tonearm Cables?What about the Kondo copper phono cable, it is reasonably priced. Nordost, personally I find to be very hifi - very clean and crisp, but does not sound natural. Have not heard the Crystal. If you want a bang for buck solution, get a pair of the original MIT MI330 interconnect ( no boxes ) and have someone reterminate the sending end with an appropriate DIN - this will see off most phono cables up to $1200. Keep the phono cables as short as possible. There are also the Ikeda phono cables - I have one here - its pretty good, very resolving - but not as good as my custom MIT. Beware, price is not always an indicator of performance. Check out Michael Fremers review of phono cables in Stereophile a few years ago where he compared several at different price points. |
Many thanks for All of your recommendation! Very important information: Isamu Ikeda recommended copper based phono cable with his silver wired arms. Kondo is too expensive! How about Crystal Silver Gold Alloy Tonearm Cables? Or Nordost Frey II? On the other hand, which cartridges with the best match with FR? SPU? |
Isamu Ikeda recommended copper based phono cable with his silver wired arms - he believed in balancing the sonic attributes of each cable type. Personally, with my silver wired FR64S, I use different cables depending on cartridge - for moving coils I use custom built MIT phono cables, for moving magnets I use ultra low capacitance custom silver phono cable from Audioplan ( not available commercially ). In my experience Cardas has a cardboard/sepia colouration to the sound across the board. If you prefer silver, Kondo is excellent. |
Congratulations @eggberg....I assume you're the happy winner of the Japan Yahoo Auction for the FR-66S 🎉 If I didn't already have two of them, I would have been tempted to bid. It looks to be a complete set in mint condition (which is rare) with an original box in pristine condition (even rarer)..... I have both of mine, plus my FR-64S (Silver) hooked up with Cardas Golden Reference phono cable (since superseded by Cardas Clear), and am very happy with the results. There are those who insist on Silver Phono Cables as well as Silver Cartridge Leads to match their Silver-wound Kondo SUT....but I'm not one of those 😃 What table and cartridge/s will you be using? I think you'll be amazed at the results with this arm.... It is simply the best tonearm I have ever heard (other than the Copperhead) and surprisingly.....works with every cartridge I have tried. You're a lucky man.....👍 |
Santa came early this year with some stuff i could only dream about. This is Ikeda IT-345 dynamic balance tonearm in rare matte finishing. Another pearl is a brand new Miyajima Kansui cross-ring MC cartridge in Tanzanian hardwood (known as ‘mpingo’). |
@nandric Dear chakster, Ikeda IT-345 ’’armwand’’ is not made from steel. I remember Carr’s comments, but ... There are at least two versions, the latest/modern is CR-1 (i have no idea what does it mean), but my version is earlier from the 1996 and if you will translate it here then you will see "arm pipe made of stainless steel". My IT-347 is not glossy mirror finishing like those modern Ikeda tonearms, but a much better old school matte grey finishing (except for the arm pipe which looks just like the arm tube on my FR64s). The price for my version was 210 000 Yen in 1996. |
Dear chakster, Ikeda IT-345 ''armwand'' is not made from steel. As J. Carr explained 3 different materials are used for the ''armpipe'' in order to supress resonances. According to Carr Ikeda got better understaning of involved resonances after the FR -64/66 S series. Also there is no lateral balance on IT 345& 407 ''models''. I bought IT-345 because Carr mentioned that according to Ikeda and his ''mechanics'' IT-345 was their best tonearm. I sold my IT-345 because I prefer my both FR-64 S; the silver and copper kind. |
@gallus I have both the Ikeda IT-VTA-06 base and an original FR B-60 base. Both work fine on my FR64S, but I like the Ikeda better - it's newer and everything tightens up better on it. Those set-screw hex heads on the B-60 can get pretty marginal over the years. I've settled on the Ikeda base on my setup, and am very happy. I also like the Ikeda headshells with FR64S. |
My Ikeda IT-345 tonearm has arrived, matte finishing, not a CR-1. Arm tube is stainless steel. Everything about this model is great, my first impression is very positive about every part of this tonearm. Actually i feel that it is better made than my FR-64s sample. It is a third model of FR/Ikeda in my collection: 64fx, 64s and now IT-345 |
Am i correct that IT-345 and IT-345 CR-1 are two different versions? The Ikeda IT-345 is from the mid 90's: ■ Price: 210,000 yen (in 1996) ■ Arm base hole: 31 mm ■ With anti-skate device
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Maximum mounting thickness 35mm |
I have never owned or heard an Ikeda tonearm other than those made under the Fidelity research label. However my FR 64S tonearm with “silver inside” mounted in a B60 base on a custom heavy metal tonearm mounting board continues to be the best sounding tonearm that I own with any cartridge I choose, regardless of compliance. Currently using a 10g carbon fiber headshell as recommended by Halcro. I would be tempted to get it re-wired with “new” silver, but I am loathe to part with it even for the length of time needed to get the work done. |
@montesquieu I have an early IT-407 and a post 2011 IT-345 CR1 and both seem to me to be far better arms than the FR64s. I put this down to the additional vertical bearing - the FR64s has only one, on one side, whereas the 407/345 have two, one each side. This has many advantages not least longevity. Other than that the designs are pretty similar and indeed many bits are interchangeable (I had an 64 and 345 at the same time for a short while and was able to compare directly on a well sorted TD124 with Miyajima Madake, Zero mono, assorted SPU cartridges and an Ikeda 9C. Great, as a new Miyajima Kansui proud owner, i was thinking about Ikeda tonearms after all. I know @nandric will kill me, because i already have FR-64s which i did not even mounted yet and using FR-64fx instead :)) The FR64s is a very good arm but there’s a strong case (which happens to be my opinion too) that the Ikeda-branded arms are better - improved vibration control, significantly improved bearings, similar (slightly but not massively) less mass for a more expanded list of compatible cartridges, and in my view more successful aesthetics. If your preference is for the FR arm then fine make the case all you like, but for all the shouting in the above post, it’s a matter of opinion, not in any way ’case closed’. We have different opinions here regarding Old vs. New in this thread, this is all very interesting. I was fascinating about Ikeda IT-345 in early matte finish (definitely not in mirror finishing). I can’t even thing about FR-66s because of the price, no way. But a used Ikeda IT-345 is more realistic, finally i will be able to compare 64s (with B60) & 64fx (with N60) to Ikeda IT-345 since i have some nice cartridges for them all (Miyajima Kansui, FR-7fz, Ikeda 9 III). I even sold some killer spare copies of my best MM to invest in Ikeda tonearm, today is a good day. What a hobby? Damn |
syntax Do you still say that only the Dennesen Soundtracktor can be used to set-up the FR64s and FR66? I just bought a very expensive SmarTractor to use on both of my FR64s's.... I do have a very old, plastic Dennesen Soundtracktor... but would much rather use the SmartTractor if I can, as it would be much more accurate. |
It is with deep regret that I must convey the sad news that Osamu Ikeda passed away at the age of 92, on 2018-09-17, Japan time. He contributed to analog audio in a manner that few can emulate, and will be sorely missed. The Ikeda brand continues, in the hands of a younger generation of cartridge and tonearm craftsmen. |
@montesquieu
I don’t have FR64s, i use FR-64fx with its heavy counterweight for my FR-7fz cartridge. I can let my FR-7f go if anyone interested, nice cartridge, it was on my FR-64fx before i upgraded to FR-7fz last month. |
I think one reason for the differing mass data for the fr66s and other tonearms too is the dependence of effective mass upon headshell weight. Even FR headshells vary from one to another type. So if you use a much lighter non-FR headshell the effective mass can be lower than the lowest number quoted. Etc. |
Dear @nkj and friends: Please read this post about. That's why makes no sense to any one folows using Stevenson A alignment: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/will-fine-tune-adjustments-with-protractor-help-with-brightne... @nkj you can use either Löfgren A/Baerwald or Löfgren B with out modify the FR 230mm P2S spec and will have lower traking distortions that with Stevenson A no matters what. R. |
Dear @nkj : Do it a favor and before you pull the trigger with Stevenson A try to understand how that kind of alignment degerades the cartridge signal against Lófgren A or B. It does not matters which P2S you choosed the Stevenson A alignment has higher tracking distortions all over the recording grooves but the last 3-4mm inner grooves of a total around 90-92 mm. So you have not advantages with that alignment but only severe degradation to the cartridge signal because those higher tracking distortions and you can't do nothing about. The best way to go is to choose Löfgren A/B alignments using Dr. Feickert protractor. For me is the best way to go but it's up to you. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
I don't know whether you use a specific mounting template for every different tonearm with the SMARTractor, as one does with the UNItractor, but if so, you would obviously want to buy the FR64S template from Acoustic Systems and, yes, know the diameter of your spindle, which is accommodated in the UNI design. (It comes with 3 interchangeable spindle holes that fit tightly into each of the tonearm-specific mounting templates). |
Dear ddriveman, I see your post as ''implicit critic'' on my. I am very sensitive ''against'' critical remarks so my response is ''as critical''. Nandric mentioned ''Lew'parameter'' which means 231,5 mm pivot to spindle distance. I even added spindle dimension because those are not ''equal''. Then 231,5 mm means Bearwald while the distance mentioned in the user manual ( 230mm ) means Stevenson. |
@nkj If you use the "Mint Tractor" from Yip, as suggested by nandric, and you want to use the Dertonarm recommended 231.5mm Pivot to Spindle distance, you need to tell Yip that P2S is 231.5mm. And you will have to choose between Stevenson, Bearwald or Lofgren curves. Otherwise Yip will use the manufacturer's recommendation which is 230mm P2S and Stevenson as a default. Good choice on FR64s. |
I aligned my FR 64S using the UNItractor, made by Dertonearm. In so doing I used the recommended pivot to spindle distance of 231.5 MM. (Not the factory recommended distance of 230 mm.) Then I used the supplied template that came with the Unitractor to align the cartridge. I actually do not know precisely how much overhang is the result. |
