Has anyone compared the FR66s to the newer Ikeda IT-407 CR1 tonearm? Any thoughts? In previous years, the Ikeda was available with either copper or silver internal wiring but the recent models don't mention anything about the tonearm wiring. Can anyone comment what type of wiring is used in the latest editions? It would seem intuitive that the later Ikeda IT407 should be a better performer than the FR66s having improved material and bearings over the FR66s but the proof is in the hearing.
My point about the silver wires is not who has better tonearm silver wire but that the existing FR64s and FR66s tonearms are about 40 years old and getting them rewired, either by Dertonarm or Ikeda brings improvements. In fact, I go to great lengths to explain that I hear no difference between Dertonarm's rewire and Ikeda's rewire. It's the other posters who have muddled up this simple message, claiming contradictions, fake news etc etc ... Enough already! Jeez!
My post was just a general comment. Not at all aimed at you or anyone else specifically.
I think there is plenty of room to discuss what topology sounds best and what insulation sounds best (of silver wire). (Litz vs stranded vs insulated strands vs solid core/single strand and teflon vs cloth vs just an insulated coating.)
You are a brainwashed frightened and ignorant sot who doesn't know what he is talking about or anything about the "Muslim world" you have been lied to and cheated and fooled by the vast world conspiracy of war mongers and bomb builders.
You are an ignorant and hatefilled bigot, the ugliest kind of human ugly I am not a Muslim but I have many Muslim friends and you have allowed yourself to be brainwashed about Muslims.
I have just purchased a FR 64s. @lewm ,@syntax with your experience what PS overhang and geometry are you using with this arm?
No head shell with it but I do have the VTA lifter. I've ordered a Jelco to get started and would like to try some modern cartridges as it seems some of I will be partial to Koetsu.
I aligned my FR 64S using the UNItractor, made by Dertonearm. In so doing I used the recommended pivot to spindle distance of 231.5 MM. (Not the factory recommended distance of 230 mm.) Then I used the supplied template that came with the Unitractor to align the cartridge. I actually do not know precisely how much overhang is the result.
@nkj If you use the "Mint Tractor" from Yip, as suggested by nandric, and you want to use the Dertonarm recommended 231.5mm Pivot to Spindle distance, you need to tell Yip that P2S is 231.5mm. And you will have to choose between Stevenson, Bearwald or Lofgren curves. Otherwise Yip will use the manufacturer's recommendation which is 230mm P2S and Stevenson as a default. Good choice on FR64s.
I have the Smart Tractor. I'm not sure what the appeal is for the mint - its difficult to use. The wally scribed templates are much better for this type - alas they won't be available again.
I don't know whether you use a specific mounting template for every different tonearm with the SMARTractor, as one does with the UNItractor, but if so, you would obviously want to buy the FR64S template from Acoustic Systems and, yes, know the diameter of your spindle, which is accommodated in the UNI design. (It comes with 3 interchangeable spindle holes that fit tightly into each of the tonearm-specific mounting templates).
Dear @nkj : Do it a favor and before you pull the trigger with Stevenson A try to understand how that kind of alignment degerades the cartridge signal against Lófgren A or B.
It does not matters which P2S you choosed the Stevenson A alignment has higher tracking distortions all over the recording grooves but the last 3-4mm inner grooves of a total around 90-92 mm.
So you have not advantages with that alignment but only severe degradation to the cartridge signal because those higher tracking distortions and you can't do nothing about.
The best way to go is to choose Löfgren A/B alignments using
Dr. Feickert protractor. For me is the best way to go but it's up to you.
@nkj you can use either Löfgren A/Baerwald or Löfgren B with out modify the FR 230mm P2S spec and will have lower traking distortions that with Stevenson A no matters what.
@maxgh IT345 CR-1 handles in my system
pretty much exactly as the IT407 - I don't think it's any less effective
mass than the 20g of the original 407 despite the longer length - that
may be the chrome finish or some other aspect. @chakster FR64S
I think one reason for the differing mass data for the fr66s and other tonearms too is the dependence of effective mass upon headshell weight. Even FR headshells vary from one to another type. So if you use a much lighter non-FR headshell the effective mass can be lower than the lowest number quoted. Etc.
I don’t have FR64s, i use FR-64fx with its heavy counterweight for my FR-7fz cartridge. I can let my FR-7f go if anyone interested, nice cartridge, it was on my FR-64fx before i upgraded to FR-7fz last month.
It is with deep regret that I must convey the sad news that Osamu Ikeda passed away at the age of 92, on 2018-09-17, Japan time. He contributed to analog audio in a manner that few can emulate, and will be sorely missed. The Ikeda brand continues, in the hands of a younger generation of cartridge and tonearm craftsmen.
Yes, the Dennesen sound track tor is probably the best tool to set up your FR64 and 66 series tonearms besides his uni/smart tracktors. This was confirmed by Dertonarm before he made the Uni or smart tractors. He also told me that there are many fakes for the Dennesen.
I have an early IT-407 and a post 2011 IT-345 CR1 and both seem to me to be far better arms than the FR64s. I put this down to the additional vertical bearing - the FR64s has only one, on one side, whereas the 407/345 have two, one each side. This has many advantages not least longevity. Other than that the designs are pretty similar and indeed many bits are interchangeable (I had an 64 and 345 at the same time for a short while and was able to compare directly on a well sorted TD124 with Miyajima Madake, Zero mono, assorted SPU cartridges and an Ikeda 9C. Never found either of them that hard to set up either - using SPU standard distance (which I use for all my cartridges) the 345 is spot on at recommended 230mm, the early 407 need set back about 1.6mm, job done, no need to fuss any further.
Great, as a new Miyajima Kansui proud owner, i was thinking about Ikeda tonearms after all. I know @nandric will kill me, because i already have FR-64s which i did not even mounted yet and using FR-64fx instead :))
The FR64s is a very good arm but there’s a strong case (which happens to be my opinion too) that the Ikeda-branded arms are better - improved vibration control, significantly improved bearings, similar (slightly but not massively) less mass for a more expanded list of compatible cartridges, and in my view more successful aesthetics. If your preference is for the FR arm then fine make the case all you like, but for all the shouting in the above post, it’s a matter of opinion, not in any way ’case closed’.
We have different opinions here regarding Old vs. New in this thread, this is all very interesting. I was fascinating about Ikeda IT-345 in early matte finish (definitely not in mirror finishing). I can’t even thing about FR-66s because of the price, no way. But a used Ikeda IT-345 is more realistic, finally i will be able to compare 64s (with B60) & 64fx (with N60) to Ikeda IT-345 since i have some nice cartridges for them all (Miyajima Kansui, FR-7fz, Ikeda 9 III). I even sold some killer spare copies of my best MM to invest in Ikeda tonearm, today is a good day. What a hobby? Damn
I have never owned or heard an Ikeda tonearm other than those made under the Fidelity research label. However my FR 64S tonearm with “silver inside” mounted in a B60 base on a custom heavy metal tonearm mounting board continues to be the best sounding tonearm that I own with any cartridge I choose, regardless of compliance. Currently using a 10g carbon fiber headshell as recommended by Halcro. I would be tempted to get it re-wired with “new” silver, but I am loathe to part with it even for the length of time needed to get the work done.
My Ikeda IT-345 tonearm has arrived, matte finishing, not a CR-1.
Arm tube is stainless steel.
Everything about this model is great, my first impression is very positive about every part of this tonearm. Actually i feel that it is better made than my FR-64s sample. It is a third model of FR/Ikeda in my collection: 64fx, 64s and now IT-345
@chakster Does your IT345 tonearm come with the vta tower (IT-VTA-06)? It is claimed to work both with Ikeda and FR tonearms. I am considering purchasing a FR64s and quite interested in reports about the Ikeda vta tower, since the original B60 is quite hard and expensive to find.
@gallus I have both the Ikeda IT-VTA-06 base and an original FR B-60 base. Both work fine on my FR64S, but I like the Ikeda better - it's newer and everything tightens up better on it. Those set-screw hex heads on the B-60 can get pretty marginal over the years.
I've settled on the Ikeda base on my setup, and am very happy. I also like the Ikeda headshells with FR64S.
Dear chakster, Ikeda IT-345 ''armwand'' is not made from steel. As J. Carr explained 3 different materials are used for the ''armpipe'' in order to supress resonances. According to Carr Ikeda got better understaning of involved resonances after the FR -64/66 S series. Also there is no lateral balance on IT 345& 407 ''models''. I bought IT-345 because Carr mentioned that according to Ikeda and his ''mechanics'' IT-345 was their best tonearm. I sold my IT-345 because I prefer my both FR-64 S; the silver and copper kind.
Thanks a lot for the feedback, @mulveling ! Although also expensive, if I´d purchase the Ikeda I will be sure of getting an original, which is not always the case with the B60 offerings...
Dear chakster, Ikeda IT-345 ’’armwand’’ is not made from steel.
I remember Carr’s comments, but ... There are at least two versions, the latest/modern is CR-1 (i have no idea what does it mean), but my version is earlier from the 1996 and if you will translate it here then you will see "arm pipe made of stainless steel".
My IT-347 is not glossy mirror finishing like those modern Ikeda tonearms, but a much better old school matte grey finishing (except for the arm pipe which looks just like the arm tube on my FR64s). The price for my version was 210 000 Yen in 1996.
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