silver wire would not be as good with SPU cartridges unless you want to use it just with the Silver Meister....and even then I think if you have to "tweek it" I would use 8N copper....
FR64S tonearm overhaul
I just bought a nice Fidelity Research FR64S tonearm off Ebay to have a second vintage arm for my SPUs and maybe a few FR cartridges in the future. The arm is in great condition but still has the original copper wiring.
I am looking to refurbish the arm myself and was thinking about rewiring it with Ikeda silver and a new Cardas DIN plug. Does anyone have experience with the sonics of silver vs. copper wiring in the FR arms? What other things should be replaced and where can I source the parts?
I am looking to refurbish the arm myself and was thinking about rewiring it with Ikeda silver and a new Cardas DIN plug. Does anyone have experience with the sonics of silver vs. copper wiring in the FR arms? What other things should be replaced and where can I source the parts?
26 responses Add your response
To get some idea about the complexity of the job look at: www.thomas-schick.com-FR 64 BTW there are those who prefer silver wire but also those who prefer copper wire. If you prefer silver wire then sell your FR-64 and buy one with silver wire inside. I own both and have no preference for one or the other. Anyway don't mess with an good FR-64 specimen. |
I love my copper wired RMG 309 with the SPUs so maybe I should just stay with copper on the FR64. I also had seen the Thomas Schick site and think I can handle the job. If there is no significant difference between the sonics of the silver vs copper version I agree that keeping it as a copper version makes more sense. Is Cardas copper wire the best or are there better alternatives? |
I agree with Nandric - dont touch the FR64. The FR's have excellent bearings, better than most arms today and I would not risk disturbing them. The Cardas wire in my view is not worth the investment. Firstly it is a springy wire and tends to exert additional forces on the arm movement. Secondly on my ET2 it sounded no better than a high quality silk litz ofc wire. The van den hul silver wire sounds brittle and is prone to picking up rf. The best tonearm wires in my view are the hair thin rectangular Magnan wire as used in the SME iV.5. Personally I would not touch an FR64 unless it is broken - and then it must have had some abuse. I own 2 of them and they are original and in excellent condition. I think you will get very little gain on rewiring unless you are rewiring to eliminate all the additional internal connections, i.e. 1 continuous run from cartridge to phono input. |
Nandric described it well. I had both Arms, silver wired and copper wired. The silver wire can transport 6% more information based on its structure than copper (AES Standard copper in purest=100, Ag=106). You hear at once a deeper soundstage, a better headroom and the details are bit more precise and present. that wired Arm is a touch closer to a real thing reproduction. Of course I sold the copper wired Arm :-) Btw. my FR-66s is also silver wired .... |
If anything, leave the internal wiring (and therefore the bearings, etc) alone. Just remove the DIN plug altogether and solder directly to the internal wiring where it meets the DIN plug leads, so as to create a straight shot from headshell to phono input. You can do that without de-constructing the entire tonearm. |
Dear Lew, The only sense I can discover in your proposal is that this way one can check if the wire is copper or silver. Assuming of course that the silver marking is lost. Why should whomever remove the 5 Din connector? The only reason I can think of is the conviction that one can make somethig better instead. If so one should produce those an get rich. |
It sounds like the consensus is to leave it completely alone. I just thought an overhaul may be in order due to the age of the internal wiring. I have not yet had the chance to listen to it because I will need to make another armboard and riser to mount it to my TW AC3. Looking forward to seeing how it compares to my RMG 309 with the SPU cartridges. |
If it's in excellent condition externally, it's unlikely that any significant degradation of the internal wiring has occurred, and if it did, you will soon know it, because the circuit would short itself out if bare wires are touching each other or touching the inner walls of the arm tube. (This assumes that the degradation would involve the insulation; the conductors per se should be ok no matter what, altho naked copper would eventually oxidize. Oxidized copper is not so conductive; oxidized silver is as good as pure silver.) |
One need to first remove the round covering plate on the VTF adjuster to get access to the inside of the arm. Then the aluminum scale on the arm shaft need to be removed in order to get access to the 3 screws one of which holds the Din 5 connector. Ikeda used some kind of ''weak glue'' for both but the aluminum scale is more easy to remove than the mentioned covering plate. Scratches on the covering plate are easylly made while those reduce the value of the arm. This work should be done by an expert like ''our'' Dertonarm . Alas he was ''priceless'' before in metaphorical sense but will be at present in literal sense (grin). |
To mate with the DIN connector on the base of the tone arm, I would advise just getting the phono cable you like best. And there is no limit on how much to spend on that cable, because in my opinion the tonearm is that good. If your phono stage permits balanced operation, then this is the time to select a cable that has the DIN connector on one end and an XLR connector on the other end, and be sure that inside you have two separate conductors for signal, one for the positive phase and one for the negative phase of the signal. There would be a third conductor for ground. In this way you can connect your cartridge to your phono stage in true balanced mode, and your balanced phono stage will operate best that way. |
Sorry to resurrect this old post but maybe someone can provide some advice on which cable I could get for the FR64s phono interconnect? any advice on a specific one? shielded? type of DIN connector? etc. Luis, check this if you want something ready to go. You can return any Zu Audio product, so that’s the best. Another advice is to replace the armlift with a new one (stainless steel) if your original is not perfect. You will get 12 EUR VAT refund since you’re not in EU (just ask the seller), so the price is EUR 58 + shipping, check the link: http://www.audiosilente.com/inox-steel-lift-for-fr-tonearms.html |
luisma, True balanced phono stages, other than the MP1, are not that uncommon these days. Oddly and sadly, more so among solid state devices than among tube types. I guess I wrote up the balanced idea mostly because some dealers propagate the notion that you need some major rebuild to "convert" from single-ended to balanced operation of a phono cartridge. This is not true; the standard DIN connection can be done either way, depending upon the topology of the cable between the tonearm and the phono stage. |
Dear @luisma31 : Always is healthy to have the lower capacitance in that kind of operationsl cable and in the other side silver is better signal conductor than cooper and you want that the cartridge signal goes out of your speakers with the higher quality you can achieve through your room/system.. R. |
Not every wire in audio is silver, there are so many people who like copper more than silver. It's a personal preferences. Luis, I'd like to recommend you to replace arm lift on FR-64s, got mine from Italy, made especially for FR-64s, this arm lift replica is stainless steel and it's much better than the original (unless your original is like new). My original arm lift wasn't good, new one is superb! I'm happy. |
Dear @luisma31 : Always is healthy to have the lower capacitance in that kind of operationsl cable and in the other side silver is better signal conductor than cooper and you want that the cartridge signal goes out of your speakers with the higher quality you can achieve through your room/system..Thank you Raul, noted sir, @rauliruegas |
Luis, I'd like to recommend you to replace arm lift on FR-64s, got mine from Italy, made especially for FR-64s, Thank you Chak, I already did based on your recommendation from before, wonderful piece... |
Congratulations on your score My buddy has the FR64S silver wired and it is a fantastic arm. He basically gifted me a FR64FX with the B60 base when I got his SOTA sapphire (he had two). The Zu phono cable was very cost effective and I used it for decades. I upgraded to a Cosmos and retained my FR arm and base. I bought a Triode Wire Labs phono cable as I use Triode wire labs for interconnects and power cables. Not trying to be a shill but I would let the Zu Xaus phono cable go for any reasonable offer. It has tons of reproduction so should be broke in for sure. It has a fraying by the ground wire but it does not expose the wire or affect performance. If interested pm me. If not, no problem and enjoy. A great arm and true classic. Hell I still run FR cartridges (rebuilt nowadays of course) Cheers |
