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Foolish

Stupid!
Dumb!
Ignorant!
Idiot!
Disbelief!
OK!
Excited!
Grinning!
Happy!
Smiling!
Goose Bumps!
Believer!
Whoah!

OK, the electrician just left my house after installing three dedicated AC lines, 1-15, & 2-20s. All I can say is Whoah! Cannot believe what I am hearing after the first 5 CDs. Everything in my system changed, well almost. Dynamics, effortless power, smoother but not the mellow kind of smoother, soundstage became wider, more real sounding, more like the musicians are in the room and not just a good sounding studio recording. I even opened up my 1960s Gibson Les Paul and jammed to Ronnie Earl and the Broadcasters, The Colour of Love CD, that’s how excited I got, sorry my Marshall 50 watt half stack is in storage for now. You should hear Pat Barber’s Café Blue, I am hearing details that I heard before but not like this, I think I can hear her lips coming apart on song umber 6; Wood is a Pleasant Thing, no really. You know the sound when your lips are moist and you open them up. I thought my system sounded good before but this is something new. I am glad I did this before upgrading my AC and speaker cables. I may have to rethink some of these. My Sony SCD-777ES does not have a hint of edginess anymore. The bass guitar on Ode to Billy Joe is so much more dynamic and real sounding, it sounds more like it is in my room then a good recording of one. If you play acoustic guitar and you slide you fingers on the strings and get the screech, I have always heard this sound very natural on my system but it did not sound like it was in the room (although I thought it did) until now, you know if you play guitar what I am describing here. The musicians seem to be more in the room than coming from within the speakers (the only way I can explain it at this moment). Cymbals are very crisp and natural, the snare drum sounds like the old 60s snare drum sound, with a real snap, I pulled out my old Rogers drum set also and compared, eerie.

Anyway, for you foolish audiophiles who are changing your cables and such, this was the best upgrade that I can recommend to you before buying any component or cable, etc. It cost me $225 for the three lines, and I have heard as much as $125 a line. So for $375, you would have to spend more than that on three AC cords, ICs and speaker cables. I know, I have the AZ Holograms here for an audition with the Audience and Shunyata speaker cables. I will post a review in about three or four weeks.

To all of the Agoners who replied to my forum post on Electrician coming over, you know who you are, we all do, and who put up with my endless questions, I wish I could buy you all a drink right now, hey it is only 11 am. The biggest thanks that I can give you is from my heart. You guys (gals???) are the greatest for taking the time to help me with all of this. Foolish I am no more!

Gotta go listen, I haven’t felt this way in a very long time!!!

Happy Listening.

Peter

Song 11 on Pat Barber is playing in the back ground with the drum solo and cymbals crashing, Whoah!
bigkidz
21 responses Add your response
lugnut
1,190 posts
 
Ain't it nice to feel like a kid again? Congrats!
stehno
1,453 posts
 
Peter, glad to hear that you are so pleased. Cheapest upgrade in the world is right.

Of course there's always those that will laugh and mock at such an electrical upgrade. More than likely their equipment is such that it does not matter what they do. It always sounds the same.

So your noticing the vast improvements is also a testimony that you have put together a good to excellent system easily capable of revealing changes you make.

-IMO
judit
217 posts
 
Peter,
Perhaps you would be willing to post the details.
What wire did he use, where did he run them (cellar, overhead, outdoors...), did you need to install a sub-panel, did you install dedicated neutrals, how did he handle the ground?
Judith
kgveteran
377 posts
 
My video room in my last house I think had more independent power than my whole house.Every piece of equipment was happy and free of clicks and pops and whistles.Simple twelve-two or twelve-three will do the trick.My new video room also has dedicated ac lines and once again we are all happy.Remember the rule,it's only a 20amp line if it's 12ga romex.and what would a dedicated 20amp line be without a 20amp outlet.Go ahead and clip those jumpers and run twelve three and have two deditated lines in one outlet.HOW ABOUT RUNNING EVERYTHING 220 ! Those darm europeans.
wellfed's avatar
wellfed
690 posts
 
Question, I believe I have what is essentially a dedicated line seeing that the only other things this line serves are an overhead foyer light (incandescent) and two outlets in the garage that are seldom used for anything. Can I somehow get this particular line it's own dedicated ground with a minimum of fuss? What benefit would I receive from installing multiple lines? I am using ACME cryro outlets, which provided a major upgrade. Where can I go next to optimize my power? I do not use a line conditioner, but have high quality power cords. TIA
maxgain
526 posts
 
Bigkidz, what are you using for outlets?
4yanx
1,576 posts
 
Are you using cryoed outlets? If not, toss a few in and get ready for a whole new list of descriptors!
czbbcl's avatar
czbbcl
1,752 posts
 
I agree dedicated circuits are well worth the effort. I to was skeptical but just like you I am now a believer. Although my experience was not as dramatic as yours there was a noticeable improvement. I have not tried any of the cryo'd outlets that I keep hearing about but I did go with PS Audio power ports and felt they were a definite upgrade to my standard Pass & Seymour hospital grades. Happy Listening.

Chuck
stehno
1,453 posts
 
Peter, keep in mind that you are not done yet. You now have the dedicated lines but you still have pretty much the same AC noise going thru those lines. Except for any digital noise from your cdp which is pretty isolated now I assume.

Therefore, you may wish to consider some good power conditioners to filter out that noise.

The improvements found in the power/line conditioners could perhaps almost equal the improvements you discovered today with the dedicated lines. Depending of course on the type of line conditioner you obtain.

After you install line conditioners, you'll have to come up with a whole new volcabulary of adjectives.

-IMO
garfish
1,840 posts
 
"Dyno-Supreme" Peter! I had a similar experience when I had a sub-main and 5 dedicated lines/outlets put in about 3 years ago. It's all important, but I consider the dedicated lines the foundation of my whole system. Outlets make a big difference too, and I've been using Audio grade Hubbells and FIM, but plan on trying some cryo'ed outlets soon.

BTW, when first installed, dedicated lines can be excessively bright until broken in, or modified by using good power cords, and I went with Syn Res Master Couplers on everything. Cheers. Craig
warrenh's avatar
warrenh
2,299 posts
 
Pete you're gushing. Enjoy, 'til the next...
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
You'll have to tell us how the new lines make the 'Paul thru the Marshall sound... :-)
bigkidz OP
3,387 posts
 
Zaikesman, I have to get the Marshall (50 watt head with open back slant cab with 4-25 watt green Celestion speakers) out of the vault. It has been in there for a few years now and it is time to crank it up to some Allman Brothers at the Filmore. I was there when they did the record. During one of the solos, you can here my friend scream out "play all night". The Brothers will be at the Beacon NYC in March for 15 or more shows and I go every year with the good old boys.

I was even going to go so far as to install an IEC into my Fender Vibro King amp and try some power cords on it, maybe get some Cardas wire and roll some tubes! JPS and Auddience even sell guitar cords but they cost about $300 for 15 feet, well maybe next time.

For some of the other questions, I did not use a sub panel because the electrician used duplex breakers that fit into a one breaker slot. Ran three lines 2-20 amp and 1-15 amp into round 10 guage romex grounded to the panel as normal. I installed 20 amp hospital grade duplex outlets and will go with cryo treated since I can install them myself later on. I have a finished basement and the equipment is on a custom wall unit that protrudes into the back room with washer/dryer, etc., so the AC cords run through the back of the unit into an open room where the outlets are, so as long as the cords fit through the holes, I can just plug them in with no effort. I also have the existing outlets there so I can do a quick switch to hear the differences.

Stehno, will get around to auditioning some of those conditioning power cords you pointed me to along with the Elrods, Shunyata, Virtual Dynamics and AZ soon. I have the Audience, Shunyata and AZ Hologram speaker cables waiting to audition here now.

Here is a link to my original questions that everyone helped me with:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1034965232&openusid&zzBigkidz&4&5#Bigkidz

Happy Listening.

Peter
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
Open back, hmm...I like the sound of that. Is the back panel vented, or just removed?
bigkidz OP
3,387 posts
 
On the Marshalls, you just unscrew the back panel and leave it open so you do not muddy up the bass. Listen to the Allman Brothers live at the Filmore and that was how Duane got his sound. Do you play?? Go to guitargeek.com and check out all of the rigs and let me know what you think.

Peter
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
When I had a late-70's Marshall 50w master volume half-stack with a 1960 model bass cabinet of an older (late 60's/early 70's?) vintage, I often thought about leaving off the back panel, but didn't know that people did this, and didn't want to have to relocate the jack or expose the speakers to damage, so this is very interesting stuff to learn. I got sold it about 6 years ago, and have kind of been wanting to explore a Marashall combo or equivalent as an alternative to my regular 1964 Fender Super Reverb, because I'm not totally into the closed-back sound, but liked the way the Marshall head sounded through the Fender 4X10" cabinet. Then again, with all the different 'boutique' designer tube combos offered today, my head just spins.
seandtaylor99
1,262 posts
 
There are tons of amps out there now, as you point out Zaikesman, but I've yet to hear anything better than a Fender Super (or Bassman) for Blues and than a Marshall head / 4x12 (I like the celestion vintage 30s) for rock.
There are tons of guitars available now, but I still only care for Les Paul / Strat / Tele / 335.
The oldies are certainly the goodies.
bigkidz OP
3,387 posts
 
I own thirty guitars ranging from 60s LP, Strat, Tele, Gibson 335, 175 and LP Specials. I also own a number of reissues and custom shop stuff. The oldies are great but I cannot take them out to play so the relics are great, and if you play around with the pickups, they come very close. The Fender Vibro King is a great blues amp but as Seandtaylor99 said the SUper (or Bassman) is killer.

Still wondering what a power cord or JPS/Audience guitar cable will do for the sound.

Are you guys still players?? I get into NYC about three or four times a month to go to some jam sessions. My son Zachary (bigkidz) just told me that he wants to learn the guitar, probably to get chicks!!! So I ordered him a 3/4 length Strat from my friend at AXL guitars.

Did you guys go to guitargeek.com yet to check out the rigs? Just finished listening to Danny Gatton, Crusin' Deuces CD, if you don't know him or the CD, email me at bigkidz@optonline.net and I will burn and send one to you. The man could play the guitar like nobody. He was such a nice guy to, but I cannot do half the things he could.

Happy Listening and Playing.

Peter
maxgain
526 posts
 
I used to play(badly), but never sounded better than when I plugged my Strat(with Seymour Dunkan Vintage Staggered style pick ups) into a MESA/Boogie.

Zaikesman and I have talked about it a bit. It isn't his sound, but I loved it. It made me sound like I knew how to play the damn thing! They used to make a little 10" combo called the Subway Rocket that I would love to get my hands on if I ever decide to pick the guitar up again. All tubes and mostly point to point wiring. I love the tone that these amps have. These guys care about the sound their amps make and it shows.
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
Peter, I still play and own about 1/3 the number of guit's you do, but they are all a little more of the 'out' variety than the LP's, 335's, and Strat's. I live in the late Mr. Gatton's home base area of DC, and saw him play a few times live, even though his music overall was not my bag (if it had been, I could have seen him a thousand times I suppose); undeniably a unique talent (and no, I couldn't play anything like him even if I wanted to!).
bigkidz OP
3,387 posts
 
I can keep up with Danny for a while but I just do not have the imagination to come up with the solos or cording he does. I can do the single note solos like the Allman Brothers and Stevie Ray stuff note for note but loose it on the Gatton style multi fingering solos. He has a few Hot Licks videos out that are just so hard to watch. Have you guys heard the Crusin' Deuces CD. That is the CD that I really like from Gatton more than any other. Again, I will burn one and mail one if you want. What types of music do you listen to?
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