First Bi Amping Experience

Cool. A thread about Legacy Audio speakers and Metal in one place. Two things very dear to my heart. I too use far more than 2-3 watts of power when I feel like unwinding after a long day’s work.

@yesiam_a_pirate the best song on Rammstein’s Sehnsucht is ’Spiel mit mir’. Crank that one up to 11. Probably the best Thrash guitar tone I’ve heard post-80s/90s.

yesiam_a_pirate  And the experience only gets better when the current draw of the amplifiers causes all the lights in the house to dim with the beat-lol!😍

@yesiam_a_pirate I would say that is true if you’re a kid playing club music with the bass turned up much louder than it is recorded. If you are playing traditional music on a well designed speaker, a well designed amp with good current capability is not challenged to move the bass drivers.

2.3 wpc makes me look up every time on the thunder rift in Gaia.

@carlsbad2 , .....Here are a couple of tracks. I am curious to know

a) What db level would be measured at your listening position if you listened to these tracks/this type of music

b) How far is your listening position from the speakers?

c) How sensitive are your speakers and lowest impedance dip

d) Are subwoofers deployed?

Joe Satriani - Mystical Potato Head Groove Thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAD7JJGIJEw

Ozzy Osbourne - Desire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-bgU8GzhiE

Iron Maiden - Running Free

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1AcjONu56M

yesiam_a_pirate  I think we're on the same wavelength.  Saw Scorpions and Ted Nugent myself more than once!   Sometimes It's just not right until it literally rattles your eyeballs and your soul 😉

Well said @ellajeanelle. As a 62 year old man I still love the punch and slam of powerful bass. Cello, tympanies, string bass, lower octaves on the piano all demand a lot from my rig. Ditto for Rammstein's Du Hast Nich. Without slam it's just not as fun- and music should be fun.  In fact I think I'll take Mahler's Appalachian Spring  off my que and crank out some Benny Basssini loud enough for certain grumpy old farts to get offended. After that perhaps some Scorpions followed by a shot of Ted Nugent- like you said: Because I can. :)

Regarding wattage and for what it's worth,  I normally don't use more than a few watts per channel, but DO use every bit of my available 7200 watts at @8 ohms in one of my rooms when I want my fix, and before someone makes some condescending comment,  I do it because I want to, because I can, and I am not a kid playing club music with the bass playing louder than recorded.  I am a 57-year-old woman who listens to music, just like it sounded at the last live concert that I attended, the way the artist intended, and I love every minute of it when I do it, and before some know-it all tells me that I they value their hearing, so do I! By the way I used to teach a hearing conservation class and I can tell you that it's not all about sound pressure levels, it also has to do with duration of exposure and the frequencies one is exposed to.  My hearing is perfect, as per my annual audiograms and those around me often wonder how it is that I can hear things that they cannot. So, enjoy your music "your way"!   

@Carlsbad2; True as to a couple of watts. However it's the transients in demanding recordings that eat the daylights out of watts. Particularly low frequencies. It take a LOT of current to move woofers at high SPLs with difficult tracks. That's where the reserve or "margin" that big subwoofer wattage comes in handy. 

In my system I added a pair of Bryston 700Bs to drive my 6 woofers (tube amp for the mid/tweets) and the difference in bass and musicality was substantial. 

@melbay - With the jumpers removed on the speakers, I assume the subwoofer outputs (or preamp outputs?) from your Coda integrated are running the Crown which then is wired to the bass speaker inputs on the Signature SE's.  Then I also assume the integrated amp's speaker outputs are wired to the Treble speaker inputs on the Signatures.

With the extra gain knobs (and gain stage) on the Crown, you can affectively increase (or decrease) bass response (below the crossover point of 180 hertz) by driving the two 10's in your speakers to a higher level than when your Coda integrated amp was running the whole cabinet.  That may be why you are finding the need to get rid of the REL and hearing more information in the low frequency output of your speakers.

Also, (only my opinion) having the two 10's on each side in the same plane (now driven by their own amp) and using the internal crossovers may integrate better than having the single REL subwoofer.  There could have been some phase cancelation or other issues with the REL placement / integration as the Signature's 10-inch drivers did (or tried to do) the same work as the REL sub, but in different locations in the room.

I am NOT criticizing in any way and have done this same type of thinking myself in other systems (and currently bi-amp my main system).  Crown's have good damping factors and can sound pretty good in home audio in certain situations.  Enjoy!!

Before the subwoofer made a difference I could notice switching it in andout of system, Now it is not noticble at all. This amp is putting out 1350 watts max vs the Coda at 800 watts. I did no calibration yet. The bass does not seem to be ovepowering mids and highs. Like I say, these speakers are new to me and are not really broken in yet. I have been listening to the same music for years and now am hearing things in songs I never heard before. That may just be due to the higher quality of the speakers. I just concentrating on rock songs with great bass players right now.

What sort of improvements are you hearing in your system after the bi-amping?

The Coda has a right and left output for the preamp. The Crown has channel 1 and channel 2 inputs. The internal crossovers in the speakers do the work acoording to   the manual.

Are you using a Y cable to split the pre-amp output?  Are you using any crossover before the amp?  Thanks.  

The input on amp is set at 1.4. Output gain knobs at 100 percent. No clipping or noise. God bless John Entwistle and Stanley Clark.

Was also running a small REL sub before. Will now be listing that on audiomart.😄

I did no sort of calibration. Just listening and hearing wonderful bass. The Coda has been running hard now for 3 hours and is barely warm. Before it would get pretty hot after about 3 hours. Amp was open box $700.00.

Yes

Are you running the Crown amp on the woofers, and mid/tweeters with the Coda?