I'm contemplating the purchase of this brand of protractor.
Over the years I have relied on a good friend to mount cartridges and set up the few tables that I have owned in the past. Relying on someone else to do this was for good reason.
I would never make it as a watch maker or any other profession that requires a fine touch and skill with steady hands. The time has come where I will have to do this totally on my own.
My question to you owners of the Feickert protractor is what is your experience with it regarding ease of use and accuracy compared to other protractors?
Secondly, the disk has strobe markings for speed set up, does the Feickert package come with a strobe light for the $250. selling price?
I asked these question of a dealer sent via a e-mail and have not received a reply as of yet.
I have one of Yip's Mint protractors coming as well in the post as we speak.
I am used the wally tractor on my old VPI JMW 12.5, however that is useless now that I have teh 12.7.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see how the mint goes vs the Graham Phantom jig alignment
Tim, sounds like you and your soundstage buddies need to do a comparison of several alignment protractors like the wally, mint, ken willis, db, freikert etc and publish it in soundstage. Use your table/arm and someone else's. It would be interesting reading on the positives and minus's of each.
Because right now I believe I just dialed in my cartridge beyond what the Feickert could ever do.
Congratulations. Do you hear a difference?
FWIW - for holding platters and protractors in place, I use that blue painters tape used to mask off edges and borders - works like a charm and easy to remove with no marks left.
I just re-read the first several messages in this thread - been a bit of journey since the last 10 days of June, eh. :)
After all this good press (and the nice photos of Dan_Ed's system on the MintLP website) I can't hold out any longer. I just emailed Yip for a protractor for our rig. Stay tuned...
Mark, I'm glad to see you achieved similar results to what I did. This has to be the best money I ever spent on my analog front end. The difference is better than what most expensive upgrades will do. This analog is good stuff! Dan
I have a Dennesen Electrostatic Protractor that I bought in the 80's. I haven't used it in 25 years as I haven't used a pivot arm until now, but it looks alot like the Feickert contraption. Mount it over the spindle, locate the arms pivot point, and then adjust the cartridge to one point on the jig. Its easy to use as long as you can find the arm pivot point which isn't always easy. After reading this thread, though, I'm not sure how accurate it would be for all arms. I may try a Mint. the price is right.
As a side note, my measured pivot to spindle distance for the 10.5i on the SSM table agrees well with VPI's published value of 256 mm. I'm not sure why the value was off for the Aries 3 but my guess is that the rest of the values for overhang can be assumed to be accurate.
I'm in the process of orderring a best tractor from mintlp for my 10.5i arms. The time difference is delaying comunication somewhat but I look forward to trying it. Thanks to all for your input on this thread. I would never have thought to try this without the comments I've read here.
To Sonofjim, Yes, the Mintlp is made of glass.The only thing I can say to the nay-sayers is that I am happy with the way my vinyl rig sounds now, I know without a doubt set-up couldn't be any better, and that fact is directly reflected by how it sounds. That's all I need to know.
I agree with Stringreen that the VPI jig should be adequate provided that it is straight. My problem with the supplied jig is that it is not. No matter how I try to slightly bend it, it never seems to be uniformly flat on the platter. This, I think, would have to throw off the results. I'm sure VPI would send me a new jig but I think one advantage of the mintLP tractor is that it should lay more flat. It is made of glass, right?
For any one's interest regarding the Customs entry rejection of my MintLp tractor. Turns out illegibility of Yips address due to scuff mark damage during transit.
No big deal, should have my arc tractor in a few days.
Don't worry about published pivot to spindle distances with arms like the VPI (whose p-s distance can be easily compensated for).
For these tonearms as well as "fresh mounts" (where you're not stuck with a given p-s distance), work from the effective length (bearing pivot to stylus).
The Baerwaald equations will derive the correct pivot to spindle distance and offset angle.
This thread (I believe) as well as several others have described how to measure the effective length of your tonearm with a plain ol' ruler. If you have slots in your headshell, you will be plenty accurate.
At a minimum, use your measurement to verify against published specs. If you're wildly off (e.g. 3 or 4 mm), contact the manufacturer.
Viper, You can get a blank armboard to cut your own or one cut for SME direct from VPI. Go to inmate picture gallery at Audio Asylum for pictures under BIGBLOCK.
Stiltskin, I have a Aries-3 with 10.5i arm, so my table is the only thing I can measure and verify with VPI.
I cannot verify the overhang because I don't know how to measure it. If VPI got the PS distance wrong, what's the hope that they will get the rest of the numbers right?
Stringreen, I'm not agonizing in the least. I'm enjoying a sound from my Signature Scout that really satisfies on a level that is hard to believe is coming from said Scout. The VPI jig supplied with the Scout, and other tables, gets you ball-park close, but the Mintlp tool is VERY precise, that's how you find out that set-up was not as close as you thought with less precise tools. Best 100 bucks I've spent yet on my analog rig. I recommend it highly. Dan
I read these series of posts through, and just can't understand why anyone would want to go nuts over this. VPI has a perfectly good alignment jig. My SME also came with a plastic jig similar to VPI's that works well...I double checked them both with a DB protractor and all is well. Why agonize over this?
Viper, That is exactly what I found with my Aries 3 and 10.5i arm. The 262 number was bogus, I did my own measuring before I ordered a protractor from Ken Willis. So those with a VPI 10.5i arm should not order a protractor based on the 262mm distance.
Islandmandan wrote: I found my overhang was off using the VPI jig
You have to be a little bit careful if you're using the VPI table. Because VPI publishes some bogus specs on their website which were not the real things. MintLP requires very accurate specs, so if Yip designed the Best Tractor based on the bogus specs you'll expect to find some differences from the VPI jig.
I have a VPI Aries-3 turntable and when I checked VPI's website, originally it says the PS distance is 262mm, I did my own measurement and found that it's 256mm on my table. I called up VPI and sought clarification, telling them about my measurements. VPI soon corrected the number on their website. But then there're a bunch of other number, like overhang, offset angle which I cannot verify. I found that if I use their published numbers I cannot get the same null point as shown the VPI jigs. The whole thing just appears fishy. And that's the reason why I haven't yet ordered a MintLP, because I don't know what specs to give Yip.
I'm fully expecting to hear from Canadian Customs explaining why my MintLp tractor was not allowed to enter into Canada. It could of very well of been the sample bottle of record cleaner that alarmed ,as Dan ed suggested, some over zealous inspector.
Of course this hic up has not stopped me from spinning vinyl, so far 22 hours have been logged onto my new record player.
Yip has never had a problem of this sort and for now the both of us will have to wait until this week for Canada Customs reasoning.
Just did my set-up with the Mintlp Tractor. I must say, this is a wonderfully precise instrument for cartridge set-up. I found my overhang was off using the VPI jig. My first try, it just didn't sound quite dialed-in. I then checked pivot-to-spindle distance, and found it was long by a mite. After adjusting and set-up with the Mintlp again, the same lp, "Blue Bash" by Kenny Burrell and Jimmy Smith, sounded great. It's a good feeling knowing things are as good as you can get them. Good tool, worth the money!
Just thought I'd let you know the Mintlp Best Tractor finally showed up today, intact. Just read manual, and ready to see where I'm really at. Mark, I hope the RCMP didn't take you away. So far, no sign of the Secret Service or FBI at my door yet. (That's a joke to you Feds..) Regards, Dan
I just arrived home and my dear wife handed me our local news paper as I walk through the door,
The headlines read...Canada Customs "On Guard For Thee" Under the head lines it read ,Canada Customs returns suspicious package from foreign land...
On a serious note, Yip has informed me once the package arrives back in Hong Kong there will be an explanation from Canada Customs attached as to why it was rejected according to info Yip found out at the Hong Kong post office.
First hearing about this myself my thoughts were the same as yours, the bottle of cleaning fluid,... oh whats this!, the R.C.M.P. have surrounded our home.
Dan ed, Of course I was sent a tracking number. I have since found the package was sent from Jamaica N.Y., on July 11, and my local post office has no record of it, nor is it in their possesion. Hope it turns up.
On my arm the difference in overhang between Baerwald and Lofgren is 0.5 mm.
I can, and do, see the difference between the two with overhang and alignment on my Feickert . I can also see this difference with the WallyTractor. Both are equal in the usefulness. Where the Feickert may have an advantage is in the ability to align any pivoted arm.
Just like any tool, it takes time and patience to gain a better understanding of it abilities. Both methods (Feickert, and Arc types) prove to work well for my use and both, when mastered, will provide exceptional results.
If you are up to it, you can try to spend some more time with the alignment tool. The first thing to check is overhang vs. the two alignment types (Baerwald and Lofgren)to make sure they are NOT the same. They should not be. The other thing to notice is that upon a quick look the alignment may appear similar but the cantilever will not be aligned at both points because it's not theoretically possible and in practice I've verified this as the Feickert has very good resolution to be able to align the cartridge to a fine degree. Again, as verified with the WallyTractor.
One thing you may want to try if you haven't is mark the pivot point on the RB1000 arm you reported in the thread above that you have. This point is very important to getting the alignment correct. This is important whether we provide the number to an arc protractor maker or if we use it in real-time to set overhang with the Feikert tool. It ends up being critical to the adjustment as well as assuring precise repeatability, IMO.
What all this really points to is the importance of getting to know and use the alignment tool of choice. The more you use it the better you become at maximising it's ability to accomplish the job. Both types of protractors require patience. The more patience we have the potential for better results become or reward.
Help...am totally confused.Initially aligned the cartridge with the Freickert protractor using the Baerwald alignment thats on one side of the protractor disc. Out of curiosity, yesterday tried the Lofgren alignment thats one the other side of the disc and guess what...it was a perfect fit.According to my limited understanding , Baerwald and Lofgren use different geometries with different null points. If thats the case why am I getting a perfect fit with both or am I missing something? Hello Yip ...here I come!!
Just to add my voice regarding the virtues of the Mint LP. Having read some of the comments on this thread I took the plunge and ordered one and I must say I am very impressed. Very easy to use as long as one remembers the importance of light, patience and more patience. The instructions were very well written with good drawings and photographs and some helpful tips thrown in for good measure, especially regarding "PATIENCE". Do as Yip says and it works.
Really, the best $90 I have ever spent. Excellent sonic rewards and the confidence that the set up is as close to spot on as these old eyes are ever go to be able to get. Yip was a very nice guy to deal with as well and super efficient service which went beyond what I was anticipating.
I acquired a Freickert protractor a little while back. I wish I had listened to the really knowledgeable pundits on this thread.A Freickert is a good place to start, if you are a vinyl novice like me. A newly arrived Lyra Skala is sounding far superior to the Helikon it replaced on a Rega RB 1000 arm and Gyrodec. Having spent a tidy sum on my vinyl rig, its good to know that the cartridge is properly aligned and set up.Its certainly an improvement on the hit and miss of a downloaded paper protractor( given printing errors and clumsy hands trying to puncture a spindle hole). I guess I went for a universal protractor knowing that upgraditis is never far away.A silly move coz I intend to order a Mint from our friend Yip in Hong Kong.IMHO the biggest advantage of the Freickert is also its biggest let down: namely an accurate spindle pivot measurement that has no use when you actually align the cartridge on the predetermined null points. A custom built arc protractor built for the spindle pivot distance of your arm as measured by a Freickert should yield optimum results. It would be interesting to see the change in alignment, if any,required by the Mint.
Hi Thomas, I remembered early on in this thread someone made a brief mention of the Adjust Plus software from Feikert. Not until you mentioned it, I went back into the thread and saw it was Emailists, however he did not elaborate on the software at all.
Well the Adjust Plus is interesting. Thomas have you used it?
Narrod, on a good day cleaning records isn't much fun. Myself ,I can only handle 15 to 20 at one sitting, It's up there with watching paint dry.
However ,once they are cleaned you get a lot of mileage out of them before you have to do it again.
Each to his own, however this might change your mind and for anyone alse that maybe interested.
Check out the thread in the analog discussion section titled....Best Fluid For VPI 16.5 Cleaner, None VPI Brand...
Member Rushton, Doug Deacon and myself have a couple of things to say about active enzyme base cleaners for your Lps.
The Feickert is a useful tool, DaVinci Audio delivers this Protractor with its Grandezza Arms. But there is something REALLY interesting available from him, an Adjustment Record, it is called Adjust Plus. Put the record on the turntable, start it and with the Adjust Plus Software (packed with the record) you can connect it to a Laptop to check all kind of Settings. Azimuth, VTA etc. while playing! That is something amazing. It was developed with a Software Specialist. For the discriminated Audiophile a must.
I haven't yet ordered the protractor yet. I'm just not convinced I need it. I did order a sample of their record cleaner. Below is an initial review I posted on Vinyl Asylum.
I ordered the free sample offered at the website. I normally avoid multi-step cleaning processes because life is to damn short to waste it on non-essential activities. My regular cleaning fluids are VPI, RRL regular and Superwash and I have used Nitty Gritty's fluid. My favorite was Torumat which, I don't believe, is now available.
MintLP requires a three step process (four if you count wiping the record edge with a lint-free cloth). My initial impressions are quite positive. This may be the best I've ever used. Vinyl is very quiet and dynamics seem to be improved. I need to spend more time with it on more records to confirm my observations are not simply the result of a placebo effect. The free sample only requires a $1 PayPal payment to cover postage from Hong Kong.
I think with being caught up with the excitement of some new equipment that recently arrived ,I felt that I should have another protractor as a 2nd reference, just to be sure.
As it stands , the Graham jigs are exceptional, including the Feikert protractor. Both use a design method of detentes where the Feikert locks into a disk template that sits on the platter like an Lp.
The Graham jig detentes are in the head shell. Another huge advantage with the Graham cartridge jig is that you can unscrew the arm tube and hold it in any position you need to, to get the job done.
As mentioned above regarding arc protractors, Ken Willis is said to make an exceptional protractor for $50.00.
From there, the Wally and MintLp tractor.
I'm sure there are other highly accurate and easy to use tractors available that may equal the ones mentioned.
For any ones interest, this post to date is approaching 3000 views.
If anyone has a question regarding set up of your own table, arm and cartridge, DO ASK.
It DOES NOT matter what you own.
Fear not.
There is a long list of highly experienced members here with friendly advice and guidance.
Stiltskin, let us know your impressions on the Mint LP after using it. Also, when this is all done, let us know your impressions for all 3 (Phantom own jig, Feickert, MintLp) and the one you would highly recommend. Perhaps the Graham supplied jig is all you need and the Feickert and MintLp become redundant. All the best......
Using the Graham B-44 factory alignment jigs to position the arm for the spindle pivot distance and then to mount the cartridge. The end result , I found them to be of ease of use, well thought out and a very accurate design.
Once the Feikert protractor arrived, I checked my set up against the Graham factory jigs and my ability of using them.
First up , the Feikert read a pivot to spindle distance of 216.5 mm for the Graham Phantom arm. Next step I was able to land the stylus on the first point of reference with little problem. It was bang on the mark. The third step which took a little longer, was to position the stylus in a grid to check to see if the cantilever is parallel with the lines on the grid, which it was. Oh yes, the Feikert disk is reflective.
For us older guys, this is where a photographers lope and mag light came in handy.
Thinking about it as I type this, did I need to buy protractor? I also have the MintLp arc tractor on its way too.
Using an arc protractor made specific for my arm and table is going to be interesting.
Its a learning experience for me, its fun and in the end I will have complete piece of mind knowing the geometry of my arm and cartridge are exactly to spec.
04 rdking, For the reasons stated by Ken is why I measured my effective length before ordering. The SME jig does the same thing because it is driven by effective length and you move the mounting distance to make it's adjustment. I just find the arc protracter easier to work with than the SME jig. I have enough play in my cartridge mounting to adjust offset.
Here's the email I got from Ken..... for all the other SME owners out there.
"I'm assuming the SME III uses the typical SME adjustable base mount. Does it also have slots in the headshell? If it does, I need to know what mounting distance you want to use. If it does not, I would not recommend using this type of protractor. I'd stick with whatever SME provides for it. The reason is that if the headshell does not have slots, the effective length (mounting distance plus overhang) cannot be adjusted for different cartridges. The effective length of the arm changes with every different cartridge that is used in it because there is no standard for the location of the stylus in relation to the location of the mounting screws. The accuracy of the alignment using this protractor is completely dependent on the mounting distance. Every mounting distance has a unique overhang and effective length associated with it. If the headshell has no slots, the cartridge cannot be moved in the headshell to compensate for the longer or shorter cantilever length. If the cartridge is in a fixed position, but the cantilever length changes, this changes the position of the stylus which changes the effective length. Since every effective length has a unique mounting distance associated with it, changing the effective length requires a different mounting distance. It would be easy enough to move the base of the SME arm to a different mounting distance, but then a different offset angle is required. If the cartridge is fixed in the headshell, the offset angle is also fixed."
I contacted Ken Willis on my arm and he told me if it was an SME with the sliding base and no slots in the headshell, he recommended NOT using his protractor. He told me to use the SME supplied cardboard guide. His reasoning was because the SME's don't have anyway of adjusting offset, and that the pivot to spindle distance on these arms is not a fixed dimension.........
On another note.... I came across a black arm wand that is the updated version. This one is supposed to be designed to use the Baerwald geometry. Maybe I can use my old Geodisc..... we'll see..
On a side note off topic. Pete Riggle has a VTAF for the 3009/3012 arms.....
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