Stiltskin,
The Galibier protractor (not really, it was just one Thom Makris printed out to show people how an arc protractor works) did work. The difference, and I think you got this from what you read, is that the protractor Thom sent as well as the KWILLIS (that's the AA moniker to look for) are printed out on any home printer. The thickness of the lines and the inaccuracy of the printer does leave a larger margin of error.
The MintLP protractor is made for your tonearm. You provide the effective length and pivot-to-spindle distance specified by the tonearm manufacturer. (You also give the spindle hole diameter of your table.) So you are setting P2S and overhang very accurately when you use the protractor. There is really no need to use a ruler or anything to measure P2S. For me, the MintLP has been the best tool I've used to setup my cartridge. YMMV, IMO, IME, etc. |
So take the Ken Willis, or any printed out arc protractor, and increase the accuracy several times. That is the MintLP tractor. The difference is in the method and fineness of the arc and alignment lines. You will need at least a 6x magnifier to see properly. And, as Palasr posted before, it gives the added benefit of the mirrored surface. It's $90 and you will get it within 3 weeks.
I have been using the protractor that came with my Triplanar for several years. This is also a mirrored protractor that is very much like the one offered Turntable Basics. It is very good and works very well. The first time I used the MintLP protractor I was floored at how much that extra bit of accuracy made in my LP playback. Everything was more articulate, from the lowest to the highest frequencies. And I know the change was much less that .5mm in length a just a nudge here or there.
Sorry to get carried away. I have to interest in the MintLp other than to be a very happy owner of one. And I need to add thanks again to Palasr for introducing this protractor to me. |
Narrod,
I'm not trying to "sell" you anything. I'm just sharing my experience. Ken's protractor is fine, I'm sure, and if you are happy with it who cares what anyone, including me, says. Other people whose opinions I greatly respect and value are perfectly happy with their 2-point, one-size fits most, protractors. I do have a KWILLIS protractor file that Palasr sent me, but I have not printed and tried it out for reasons I'll explain below. If Ken would like to send me one that he designed and made for a TriPlanar VII I'd be more than happy to compare it to my MintLP protractor. ;-)
If a protractor is not mirrored there is a good probability of user error due to the parallax effect that Palasr posted about. If it is printed out on what ever printer one has to use, the thickness of the lines vary from user to user. This is another source of error. Perhaps Ken has a means to produce lines with a thickness of around .008". If so that would certainly boost the accuracy a user could achieve by using a protractor that he printed for them.
These issues also exist for the protractor that Thom sent around to some of us to try, which is also a printed out protractor. I doubt that Ken's is anymore accurate than what Thom designed. Perhaps Ken can print much more accurate lines. Even with these issues I was still able to get better results using Thom's printed protractor than with the mirrored protractor supplied with my TriPlanar. Still there is that parallax issue.
So for another $35 over the cost of a KWILLIS protractor, I chose to purchase a protractor that addresses both of these issues by offering more precise lines and a mirrored surface.
I see this as just a comparison between tools. I freely admit that this is getting into the realm of obsession over cartridge alignment. Even so, there is no disputing that the more accurately you can get the alignment, the more you will be rewarded from the sound from your cartridge.
My apologies to Stiltskin if I've helped steer too far off the subject of his thread. |
Narrod,
sorry if I missed your point. I think Palasr and I have pointed out the short-comings of printed protractors. I bow to Palasr as he's way out in front of me when it comes to evaluating a large number of protractors. I personally find the arc-style protractors more user friendly.
To your question, I found the largest improvement came when I first used Thom's protractor. I found that all notes, instruments, and voices were more articulate and clear. I did a few iterations of adjustments but didn't really attempt to optimize further. The improvements I heard convinced me to take a little risk and order the MintLP. It's more accurate so the results should be better. Right, I thought.
When the MintLP arrived I spent just 1/2 an hour improving the alignment I had from Thom's protractor. Here the improvements most notable was the way notes began to hang in the air much longer. At this point I'm starting to get increased details, articulation and harmonics. I believe I have finally unlocked my lp playback.
After getting to this point I sent an email to Yip, owner and manufacturer of the MintLP protractor. To generalize his response, he kind of yawned out "I'm not surprised" and then proceeded to gently lecture me that if I had only spent 1/2 hour there was no way my alignment was as close as it could/should be. (I understand that his personal protractor has even finer lines, but he won't market that because one would have to be completely nuts to try for that kind of accuracy. I want one like his even more, but I might change my tune once I tried to use it.) This response made me laugh with joy as I realized that there is even more magic to unlock. So I've tried to spend some time each weekend just attempting to get the alignment even better. Did I mention that this is bordering on obsession? :-)
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Downunder,
I'm not sure if you mean "difficult to get right" to refer to making or using an arc-style protractor. I doubt you are interested in making one, so I'll assume you are talking about using the protractor.
I don't find an arc-style protractor any more difficult to use than my 2-point style protractor. In fact, I find the arc style easier to use and much easier, for me anyway, to get alignment right.
Using any protractor is an iterative process if done correctly. That is, once you get your second point adjustment you really should go back and double check the alignment on the first point. This is also true of the arc-style, with one big exception. With the arc-style nothing is moved except the arm and cartridge. There is no re-aligning of the protractor for the first point. Unless one can do this re-alignment of the protractor with the exact same precision every time, this change in position of the protractor introduces error.
With the arc-style, you find the correct position for the protractor by locating the position in which the stylus lands exactly on the arc at a point near the spindle and a point near, preferably beyond, the outside edge of the platter. BTW, this can't be done unless the P2S distance is right for the specific arc. Once you have this the protractor is fixed in position. Now when you start the process of aligning the cantilever you are only concerned with that alignment and with keeping the stylus on the line. This alone makes the arc-style much easier for me to use.
Now as for how much time and effort one wants to put into the iterations, that is where the difficulty comes in. But this is true for any method or tool one wishes to use to do alignment. How close is close enough becomes a personal choice. My experiences lately with fine tuning cartridge alignment has shown me there is a huge reward for increasing the accuracy. This is no revelation to LP playback, we all know this. Some of us have found a tool that works even better for us to get cartridge alignment even more precise. Others may have a different tool that does the same for them. As always, YMMV. |
Stiltskin,
that would be hilarious if it weren't so sad! It had to have been the liquid that caused some one to become overly zealous.
Islandmandan,
didn't Yip send you a tracking number? |
Yeah, I remember something like that as well coming out of NY. Somehow it took like 4 days to get from NY to NH. Must have been a Yankees Fan! ;) |
Headsnappin,
go back and read the posts by Palasr on the first page of this thread. He has compared the Wally and the MintLp protractors. |
First up, it works and works well so no issues there. What else does it need to do? ;-) |
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BTW, downunder. I think you mis-interpreted what Sunnyboy posted. The fact that the Rega and MintLp protractors use the same Stephenson alignment equations will show roughly the same results. And to quote Sunny: I should point out that its all to easy to compare the final alignment between the MintLP and the supplied Rega protractor.Could I have achieved the same quality of alignment using ONLY the Rega supplied protractor ? The answer is NO. |
