I'm interested in this clock generator too but regarding their P5/D5 combo. Has anyone had an experience with P5/D5/G03x???
Are the improvements audible or not? |
If you own the P-05/D-05, link them with the factory supplied BNC cable and buy music with the money saved on the G-03x.
Or buy a nice pair of interconnects.
Or better speaker cables.
Or a couple tanks of gas.
Dealer disclaimer. |
I had demo-ed the Sa-10 with and without the clock. The clock made a huge difference to me but again that was on the Sa-10. It brought out greater detail and added to the musicality of the player. That being said in my case the price of the clock exceeded the cost of the player and for me that was too much $$$ for me. |
In other words, its not worth buying the G-03x ?
Would this same hold on the X-03 se then ? |
Agree with AudioFeil--from what I have heard the clock makes a more noticeable diff when removed from the system--I have an x03se and would not think of adding a clock--for 4k I have purchased a great ic and speaker cables that made a huge difference more than the clock would do--rich |
ok thanks- clock is out!! |
The clock accuracy of the D-5 is +/- 3ppm, when the unit is new. The G-03x is 0.1ppm and that means that it is 30 times more accurate. I decided to get the G-0Rb (rubidium) which is accurate to 0.05 ppb which is about 2000 times more accurate than the G-03x and, if my math is correct, 60,000 times more accurate than the clock in the D-5. I will post after the clock is broken in. The reviews I have read make me comfortable with my decision. |
Bugman03 - clock accuracy has little to do with jitter. Jitter specs are what is important here. |
As an owner of a dCS master clock in the context of a dCS source, my impression is that the clock makes a subtle but audible difference in soundstaging and overall realism. A master clock should be considered only for an otherwise "finished" (including room treatment) system, where one is willing to pay the premium for the benefit. That said, I believe the devil IS in the details, when one gets above a certain threshold of system quality. Personally, I believe my system has benefitted more from the outboard clock than it would have with upgraded cables at a similar cost. For context, I use Stealth Varidig Sextet digital, Kimber 1130 DAC to pre, Stealth Metacarbons to amps and Ridge Street Alethias to loudspeakers. All pcs are each under $500 cost. |
I am listening right now to something I suspect may well be every bit as good but at a fraction of the price.
The Achilles Heel of clocks is not the oscillator but the power supply. The oscillator I use is a power supply tuned to 0.001 (one-thousandth) Hertz, the measurement limit of the equipment I have here @ 3 Hertz and -133dBu - and the noise at that frequency is the same whether the probes are connected to the power supply or shortened. That means that it at least 20dB better than and possibly better than -160dBu. The noise is so low at 3 Hertz that it is virtually unmeasurable by any existing measurement tools that I am aware of. But since the noise floor is flat at 3 Hertz it likely continues so below that.
BTW, analog circuits have virtually all rising noise at LF, and that includes batteries. Even batteries are woefully inadequate! We need a noise floor 100+ times better than batteries.
The result of this clock power supply to the sound? It is IMPOSSIBLE to describe. It makes the player feel so grounded and solid, REAL. IF you are into ULTRA-transparent sound, this is the way. One of the most common reaction I have gotten is that it sound oh-so-ANALOG!!!!
The current President of ASoN (Audiophile Society of NSW) currently has a player where this is fitted. The player is an upgraded $500 CD Player by Harman Hardon and it out-performs his extremely expensive Linn CD12 (what do they go for?).
I want to make a point that is of supreme importance. LOW frequency jitter is the most objectionable jitter. I have seen situations where a trading off increased higher frequency jitter, ELEVATED the high frequency jitter, in exchange for LOWER low frequency jitter, where the TOTAL jitter is increased but the sound HUGELY improved. Yup, higher jitter yet better sound, crazy eh? Not all jitter is equal.
I also want to make this final statement. At what point in LF does jitter not matter? LF noise = LF jitter. Our research shows that SUB 1 Hertz jitter is crucial. By tuning our clock power supply to 1/1000th of a hertz, we are literally creating a Black Hole for the noise to be trapped.
Anybody here in Sydney, Australia, want a demo? Let me know. |
I purchased the G-ORb clock about a month ago to go with my Esoteric P5/D5. This clock makes a huge improvement in the clarity and musicality. This clock costs as much as the P5 and D5 and I am very pleased with it so for me it is worth the cost. I have never listened to the less expensive clock so I can't comment on it. If the clock has nothing to do with jitter then wny does it improve the quality of the sound so much? |
Does it make sense to pay that much? Perhaps, for some, as much as buying a Porche (or whatever), if they A) can spare the money and or B) can afford to go hungry. Better still, give the money to the poor.
But no kidding, I don't know ANYBODY personally who could afford the Esoteric's G-03x. I am not disputing that it works but it is not the best thing since sliced bread... you can't eat it and food is more important than Hi-Fi.
But I would like to hear it, but I suspect there is a much cheaper product that does the same thing (a clock is a clock and nothing more) that may be every bit as good or maybe 90%+ (who knows) near the Esoteric.
If something costs the manufacturer $100 in raw cost of parts, the final price should be something like $600 fitted? It may sound like a big mark-up, but the $100 does not include labour (assembly), overheads, middle person to do installation etc, taxes etc.
Who know what the Esoteric's G-03x cost is actual parts, but the same scaling applies.
That Vacuum State clock will probably cost you around $500 from the fitters - would love to hear it against the Esoteric's G-03x, it may well even equal it. I have heard one (the Vaccum State - AMAZING) but not the Esoteric (probably equally amazing and better still?). But only one is affordable. |
I believe that Esoteric was (or still is ) sourcing their master oscillators from Stanford Research Systems (SRS). I was chatting with one of the SRS reps at a scientific conference a few years back and he said they were selling their OXCO and Rb master oscillators to a high end company. At the time, Esoteric was the only company I was aware of selling an outboard Rb master clock.
FYI-the OXCO oscillators go for about $250 in qty. of 100.
The Rb oscillator go for about $1500. A full Rb frequency standard goes for about $2750.
SRS makes really great stuff. I've been using their lock-in amplifiers, counters, and pulse generators for 15 years. When the instruments are calibrated, I would stake my life and reputation on their stuff. I doubt the Vacuum State Clock is as good as the SRS units on raw performance of the clock in terms of stability. For audio who knows.
The Rb frequency standard is pretty nice for syncing the time bases of different instruments. Pretty useful when you are looking at timing errors on the order of 25 picoseconds.
BTW-If you have to resort to using an atomic clock for timing and jitter correction, you probably should rethink your whole approach to audio. The Rb oscillator is basically an atomic clock in case you are wondering. |
07-05-08: Bugman03
I purchased the G-ORb clock about a month ago to go with my Esoteric P5/D5. This clock makes a huge improvement in the clarity and musicality. This clock costs as much as the P5 and D5 and I am very pleased with it so for me it is worth the cost. I have never listened to the less expensive clock so I can't comment on it. If the clock has nothing to do with jitter then wny does it improve the quality of the sound so much? Agreed. I have listened to the P5/D5 with and without the master clock generator. The performance increase with the clock is easy to perceive. |
I am looking into the possibility of a P03-D03 combination and a dealer quoted them with the G-Orb clock, saying it was the best digital sound he had ever heard. When I talked to an Esoteric rep and asked about the sonic differences between the G-0rb and G-03x, as I have heard neither, he opined that there was a much greater difference between clock/no-clock than between the 2. I really appreciate the discussion above as I am learning quite a lot about clocks, which I never realized were so important. I also realize that 2 people will listen to the same presentation and hear different things. My best option, as I know, is to hear them for myself, preferably in my own system. The starting point is to just HEAR THEM, which I hope to do at RMAF in October. Thanks again folks for your informative and enlightening discussion. |
I realize that this thread hasn't been replied to for a long time but I wanted to comment. I have been into audio for longer than I care to mention. I've owned KEF, B&W, Quad, SOTA, Linn, ARC, CJ, Theil, Pass Labs, etc. System price tags have ranged from $100 to over $80k.
My current system: Wilson Watt Puppy 8, Accuphase A-50V amp, Accuphase C-390 preamp, Accuphase T-109V, Esoteric P-05 and Esoteric D-05. Good but not overly expensive cables.
This is a very solid sounding system with little or no listener fatigue. Bass definition, sound stage, mid-range clarity, etc is very very good.
I recently took the opportunity to purchase the lesser priced word clock from Esoteric, the G-03x (used). It is wonderfully built, easy to connect and more importantly, superb in the added differences it made to my systems sound.
Bass definition - I didn't think it could get better than the combination of the WP8s, Accupahse amp and P-05/D-05 - I was wrong! The bass definition got even better with the word clock - Outstanding, articulate, defined, deep and tight. Zero bloat here..
Sound stage - huge improvement. Wide, airy, deep, incredible.
Highs - even my 55 year old ears can pickup on the subtle detail changes wrought by the G-03x. Highs are smoother, more natural, more three dimensional.
Overall system changes - as good as the system sounded before the word clock the system is now more natural and effortless sounding. Instead of thinking "damn that sounds great" I think about the person singing the song, picturing them behind the mike, etc.
The G-03x made a large improvement to an already excellent sounding system. Good stuff... |
Mohawk155
Thanks for your detail report! I am considering to buy the G-03X again...
I used to have one to pair with my X-03SE, the improvements were very similar to the areas that you have mentioned.
Now as a pround owner of the latest K-01, I am thinking to get the G-03X (can't afford G-0Rb). I hope it will do something to my K-01.
Any K-01/03 users here would like to share your opinions? |
Hermanz3, I would suggest first contacting Esoteric directly to find out whether the G-03X clock would actually offer an improvement to the K-01's internal clock circuit. They have the clock specs for every one of their products and it is therefore pretty simple to determine if it would make a significant difference when mated to the K-01. Enjoy your K-01, I hear that it is an exceptional piece of gear! |
Never seen a G03 in use, but I'm intrigued by it and G25. Can they be used in this fashion? Coax out from a Touch and into the G03 or G25, reclocked and AES out to a DAC?
Been looking at the rear panel of the G25 and has coax inputs and AES outputs, apart from the word out.
I want to buy a DAC, and clocking is a significant matter, it seems.
Thanks! |
.....I will bump this one again. Looking at purchasing the G-03x Esoteric clock. I should have it in my system by next week which includes the P-05 / D-05. I am buying on reviews and what others have said, in that it does improve the overall sound. I agree and don't agree with Audiofeil's assesement....I added a Nirvana BNC Cable between the dac and transport and there was a sonic improvement - more clarity / more resolution. I spoke with Esoteric and they said if you heard that, then magnify that improvement 2 fold, 3 fold and that's what a G-03x will do. I will purchasing a year old clock from a dealer who is taking it in trade towards the flagship Esoteric clock......so, I am puting down some money but not the full shot so that also helps with the decision. But, I have heard they do make a difference and will comment once it gets in the system. |
I have the G25u, X03SE and the Berkeley Dac. I use the G25u to clock the X03 (used for sacd mostly) and the improvement with the clock was, to me, significent. Less on redbook. I also use the G25u to upsample and clock an ESI Juli@/PCWin7/JRiver which goes into the Berkeley and the improvement the G25u made on the Juli@ was staggering. I upsample to 192k and it is breathtaking. |
......I just purchased a used Esoteric G-03x from an authorized dealer to compliment my Esoteric P-05 - D-05 set up. It has been in my system from about 2 days now......all I can say is ; '' eeehhhhhh ''. If I had paid full price or even a new one with a nice dealer friendly discount, I would be real pissed off right about now. No great shakes from my end..... |
It's not polite to say I told you so.
Enjoy your clock.
LOL |
Hello Audiofeil.....yes, you were correct. When I hooked up the ''word sync'' with the Nirvana cable - my system had a nice little shift towards an '' analog '' sound. When I added the G-03x clock - the system shifted a little more towards an analog sound. But, even at the price I paid.....not worth it. As we all know in this hobby - sometimes the law of diminishing return steps up - and what we pay for a perceived sonic improvement in sound is just not worth .....my opinion |
Hermanz3....did you add the Esoteric G-03x TO your K-01...if so, what were the results?
Concidering adding the clock but cannot stretch to the rb version. |
