"07-15-13: Jgrossberg
When I auditioned the Maggies I was struck by the 3D sound which my Audes Blues with certain CD's starts to approach. The loss of low end on the Maggies is a concern although I have an M&K subwoofer. I have never been able to integrate this sub that well even with my Celestion monitors. They always sound slightly separate.
No one has mentioned anything about the Esoteric MG 10 speakers, is that because they are rare and not many have heard them? What about using a Primaluna Dialog tube amp with any of these speakers."
Sorry. I lost track of this thread. Mesch's post put it back to where I see it again. Your comment on not liking the bass on the 1.7 caught my attention. I know I said I didn't care for the speaker overall but the one thing I did like was the bass. It didn't have that boomy, theatre type character that many speakers have. It was definitely more musical and defined. I think you would have a difficult time integrating your sub with them. I don't know what kind of bass you prefer, but placement and the amp you use, can have a big effect in this area.
I think you are right about the Esoteric. Not that many people have experience with them. That doesn't make them bad, though. Also, as far as the Prima Luna goes, it may be a little underpowered for the 1.7's. Especially for bass. I didn't find them too difficult to drive, but you will probably want to use a more powerful amp.
Are these the only 2 speakers you are willing to consider? There's a lot of really good choices in your price range, both new and used. If you want to try a panel speaker, have a look at a pair of Martin Logan's. Some of the older models, like the SL-3's, are still great sounding speakers. Their not perfect, of course, but they do a lot right. Another one that comes to mind is Tekton. I haven't had the opportunity listen to them myself, but everyone that has seems to be raving about them. Also, your Prima Luna will easily drive them. |
Been on vacation so late to respond. I have listened to both the 1.7s and the MG-10s at the same dealership. They both represent excellent value, however quite different in presentation. I own the MG-10s, liking the transparency, quickness and dynamics. i thought they would be a better fit for my 12' x 15' room. Had I a larger room I may have further considered the 1.7s. I also don't listen to large scale music often, which the 1.7s would present better when given space. Most certainly trade-offs here. The 1.7s are more demanding of the amplifier. Please let us know of your decision. |
I was running a Chinese Tube hybrid preamp (BADA brand) into my W4S STI-500 using only the amp portion driving my Magnepan 1.7s. The tubes make an amazing difference. I would highly recommend a tube preamp with a solid state amp, if possible. If you don't listen to music at very high levels, the PrimaLuna integrated amps would be terrific. But if you like to turn it up, you will need more power.
For me, 90% of my listening I am using 10 watts or less into the Magnepans. However, they seem to drink up power much quicker than other speakers and to get them really loud, you should have 150 to 200 watts into 4 ohms.
Check out the BADA hybrid integrated amp on the Pacific Valve and electric website. It is about $1200 and has a tube preamp with solid state amp. |
When I auditioned the Maggies I was struck by the 3D sound which my Audes Blues with certain CD's starts to approach. The loss of low end on the Maggies is a concern although I have an M&K subwoofer. I have never been able to integrate this sub that well even with my Celestion monitors. They always sound slightly separate.
No one has mentioned anything about the Esoteric MG 10 speakers, is that because they are rare and not many have heard them? What about using a Primaluna Dialog tube amp with any of these speakers. |
All the maggie loudspeakers are leaders in their price range, from the MMG to the 1.7 to the 3.7 to the 20.7, they are all class leaders. Maggies excel in 3D imaging but only if you get the placement right, normally at least 6 feet into the room. The 1.7 is a good loudspeaker but the tweeter is not the sweetest up in the upper registers, it is said that the W4S amp may make that situation worse. Get the maggies if you can accommodate their placement and you like holographic 3D imaging and a slightly warm sound. |
The Magnepan 1.7s are flawed in some ways, however, whenever I go out to look for replacements I end up listening to $3k, $4K, $5K and up speakers without being wowed to the point of wanting to make the change. I suspect I will need to go $5K and up to seek out a suitable replacement and in that case, I would very likely purchase the Magnepan 3.7s.
Churchill was quoted as saying "Indeed it has been said that democÂracy is the worst form of GovÂernÂment except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.Â…" In a weird way, that's the way I feel about the Magnepan 1.7s. They are the worst speakers in many ways. They are flawed speakers - they need to be 4-5 feet from the wall, they have very little bass, and they can sound "thin" and without body unless you have the right electronics to match with them.
Except .... every time I get frustrated in their performance in one way or another, I head out to look for replacement speakers. This usually happens every 5-7 years but end up frustrated that nothing near its price range provides the "realness" you can get with the Magnepans.
I just keep hearing the boxes in most of the speakers I audition and come back to the Magnepans. What they do well is addicting and not easily replaceable in the price range they reside. |
Along the lines of Shakey's post ... Having not owned either the Merlins or Vandys, but hearing several models of both, I must say that I've enjoyed each of the Merlins (two floor stander models and one standmount); and disliked each of the Vandys (2CE, Trio, Quattro wood). Polar opposites in presentation. |
If you like the Merlins, you will probably not like the Vandersteens. Polar opposites sonically.
Shakey |
As with all Maggie's, you will need room behind them and an amp with plenty of current to do them justice. Also, controlling reflections (room treatment) makes an enormous difference.
If you can set up them up properly, your room allows for some treatment and you have a good amp, then they can sound absolutely magical.
The Esoteric's are very different speakers... and much more flexible with placement. |
It is fascinating that the Merlin speakers elicit such good responses, as I have never heard anything bad about them. I have a pair of Celestion SL6si speakers but sadly one of the woofers have separated from the surrounds and the repair never brought them back to original. They are very good sounding but not as good as the Esoterics as far as monitors go. This may give you a clue as to the sound I am looking for but can't afford. My favorite speakers I heard at the Rocky Mountain Audio Show was a set of beautiful Acapellas. It is the accuracy and spatial fullness with those speakers that I am not getting with the Audes. That is why I am saying I want what I can't afford.You are right in that I consider myself and am a novice at this hobby but before I am looking down rather than up I would like to try some new speakers. |
I'm the one that started it. I apologize if the thread took a bad turn because I worded my post in an aggressive manner. I don't take back the content of what I said. I still feel its true but I should have chosen my words a bit more carefully. I'm very picky when it comes to giving advice and recommendations. Too many new people give up on this hobby because they become frustrated and can't figure it out. I feel its very important to put comments in context. Theres a big difference between owning a speaker, not owning it but hearing it and reading about it. Information like that is valuable and relevant; especially to a beginner.
As far as the Merlins go, I haven't heard them. I can tell you though, a lot of people really like the them. I can't recall any negative comments about them at all. Given that, I think they are worth looking into. |
I didn't realize my question would become so personal in your responses. Maybe we should forget the Magnepan vs MG 10 speakers and consider the Merlins as a possibility. While you guys are duking it out maybe someone can whey in on this debate. Having said the above I think the Audes Blues are really good speakers but probably my wired 4 sound amp is not the right or best choice. For right now I would like to keep the Wyred 4 sound and pair it with a different speaker since I am giving the Audes to my son.
Guys can we start over and give me your best advice. |
Experience after WHAT fact? Could you be a little more vague?
Ok, your dick is bigger. You can move on now.
Shakey |
Shakeydeal. The name says it all. Of course you have all this experience; after the fact. People like you always do. |
Wow, touched a nerve did we?
I actually did own a pair of 1Bs for a while. And yes, I've heard 2s and 3s in enough settings to know exactly how they compare to maggies. Ask anyone who has heard a pair or even owns them. Yes, they are high value speakers that offer a lot for the money. Is transparency their strong suit? No.
This ain't my first rodeo, so don't speak to me like it is.
Shakey |
Shakeydeal,
"That said, there is no way a pair of Vandersteen 2s could be considered more transparent. I can understand someone preferring the Vandys for one reason or another, but transparency? Nah."
This is fairly new person to audio. The least you could do is be more responsible with your posts. Its OK for you to have a different opinion than me, but having one that's not based on your own experience is really not an opinion. Someone new will probably not pick up on this and may think you actually did the evaluation yourself. If you are going to base your comments on what you've read in magazine reviews and what people in chat rooms have to say, that's fine. Just say so. There's nothing wrong with sharing that type of info.
Please don't come back with some lame story about how your friends have Vandersteens or something, and you have so much experience with them its just like you owned a pair. I've been doing this too long both as a hobby and professionally to fall for that kind of BS. |
The Maggies have their strengths and the Esoteric's have theirs. Put another way....The Maggies have their weaknesses and the Esoterics have theirs. Impossible for me to tell what you would like best. I'd suggest auditioning both of them some more and see if one draws you in more. I do think everyone should own a planar for at least a part of their life. |
I agree that maggies aren't the most transparent speaker available. They do some things really well and have a cult following. That said, there is no way a pair of Vandersteen 2s could be considered more transparent. I can understand someone preferring the Vandys for one reason or another, but transparency? Nah.
For the OP. If you haven't spent some quality time with a planar loudspeaker you should before making up your mind. Most dealer demos of maggies have left me cold. So it would be best to listen to a well broken in pair at someone's home.
You may decide that is the sound for you. Or you may keep looking. I have owned 1.6s and 3.5s and loved them both. But I moved on for various reasons and have no remorse.
Shakey |
Your 2nd response provides a lot more info to work with. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to go about this. For example, when you talk about sparkle in relation to you amp, its hard to focus on exactly what you mean. I kind of get what you are asking, but in reality we both don't think exactly the same way, and my idea as to what sparkle is, to yours, is probably different. And that's just the way it goes. It can't be helped. In my first post, I said how important it is for you to demo equipment. There's nothing wrong with getting advice on a forum like this, but in the end you must make the final decision as to what's right for you.
Keeping the above info in mind, here's what I thought of the 1.7's; they're not transparent. The reason for that is, while you don't have box type colorations as with most dynamic driver speakers, the ribbons themselves, are very colored. That's the main reason I urge you to demo them at length. I had them for a year. Also, don't let me talk you out of them. If you like them, don't hesitate to buy them just because I don't like them. (My reference speakers for comparison were Vandersteen Model 2's and Wilson Cubs. Amps I used were Ayre V5, VAC 30/30, ARC VT100, Rowland 112 and a Cambridge 640v2.)
I can give you a couple more ideas that may help you out. First, think of everything in context of a complete system. When you are listening to a pair of speakers, you are doing so as part of a whole system in a specific room. People forget that. You can't just listen to a speaker. System matching is everything. You'll do much better choosing a speaker if you think about what amp you will pair with it, preamp, CD player, etc.
Last, "The problem is I can't have everything I want in the sound I am looking for without spending more than I can afford.". Nonsense. Take your time, use good judgment, learn as much as you can and you'll be surprised at what you are able to put together. Look at my 2 systems. In my main system, I have a $2000 pair of Model 2's, and in my 2nd system I have a $10,000 pair of Wilsons. Why? Because the Model 2's sound better. (At least I think so.) |
Thanks for your response. I actually have auditioned both speakers but only for a short period of time. I have Audes Blues that are in my system and will be giving them to my son, which will free me up to try something different. I found a pair of used Esoteric MG 10's, which are now discontinued. I really like the Esoterics although they are a little brighter than the Audes which have a much different sound characteristic. I am looking for a sound that has more clarity and crispness to it which the Esoterics provide and the kind of transparency that the Magnepans have. Another speaker that I am interested in is the Merlin TSM's, but I have never heard them.
I am using a wyred 4 sound integrated amp which sound ok with the Audes Blues but there is some sparkle missing in the sound. The problem is I can't have everything I want in the sound I am looking for without spending more than I can afford. |
I had the 1.7's. I know a lot of people like them but I think they are very overrated. My advice would be that if you can't do a really thorough demo, don't even consider them. |
