Anyone heard this unit yet? As many of you know, it is replacing the DV-50S and I'm looking for noticeable difference in audio/video quality as well as functionality. I know on paper the changes that have been made, but is the upgrade worth it from a user's perspective. Thanks for your opinions and experiences. Dave.
Mods of the Esoteric DV-50S have mentioned in this thread. Can anyone who has had his or her DV-50S modified provide info on who did the work, and perhaps what the mod consisted of?
I listened to a DV60 today, compared it to a Marantz Sa11S1 and an older DV50. The DV60 was superior in all areas to both of the other players...and by a very wide margin! Here’s the thing of it, it clearly states in the instructions to turn off the multi channel output of the DV60 in order to gain maximum sound. I noticed that when one failed to do this, the DV60 was not as resolving and clearly less powerful in the bass and the upper most highs. Turned off, the SQ was stunning and easily some of the best sound I have heard from DSD and Redbook.
A little off point, but still relevant for those with a UX-1 or looking for better audio/video out of an Esoteric piece : I acquired a UX-1 several months ago intending for it to be modified into an APL-3.0 by Alex Peychev. Although I believe the UX-1 has the best transport made anywhere, my APL-3910 sounded better in my system than the stock UX-1. AFter long discussions with Esoteric and my banker, I decided to double upgrade the UX-1 by Esoteric - sonics to UX-1 Ltd+ level and Video to UX-1p1 level, including HDMI out. I also acquired an Esoteric Rubidium clock here on Agon. The UX-1 should be back to me in about a week.
Esoteric tells me that my setup should produce incredible sound. I'll report back if anyone is interested. I am also looking at adding APL's new DAC when its out in a few months - at that point, I will be finished. Although I will have invested a decent amount of money in my new front end, hopefully the result will be great sound (and video). I will also have the flexibility of separate transport, clock and DAC which should be more useful than a single box solution going forward into the digital/computer age of audio.
I own this player for over than one year. It needs a lot of beakin time (1000 hours or more). It sounds better if you disconnect (from inside or outside) the earth wire. :) Someone can try to set digital filter to narrow than wide. CD direct option sould be enabled and video circuits set to off. A large diameter power cord will help too.
I saw the light. After working with the DV-50s, I now use an Oppo 971H for video and SPDIF into a PS Audio DL III. Nirvana. The sound has more authority, spaciousness and smoothness. And the video quality is FAR SUPERIOUR to the DV50s in EVERY WAY.
Congrats Dave and best of luck. Please do let us know how you like the UX-1 Se as it breaks in. Be patient with it. The 100 or so hrs of breakin suggested by TEAC are for the birds. Guido
Thanks to all of you for your insights and contributions. I ended up upgrading from the DV-50S to the UX-3 SE. I really did not see myself into the multichannel SACD, DVD-Audio or redbook modality. Perhaps one day I'll mod the UX-3 SE but I'll get used to it's sound first with my equipment, speakers, and room design. Thanks. Dave
Some one out there please help...What is the issue with the DV50 vs the DV60 I own both and my first impression is that the 50 KILLS the 60 in audio-(no BULL) It is 7db stronger on the volume control on my preamp, I turn my preamp to 8:00 and have to turn the 60 to 2:00 to get the same volume level. My dealer friend came over to my house and concurred that the 50 is MUCH better on the audio side. It's not just the volume level that makes th 50 better-It's everything i.e- soundstage, image, depth perception, ETC. The video is GREAT on the 60, but the 50 is really a lot better on the audio side. Does anybody have a answer? Thanks all. I have over 700 hrs on the DV60.
Polarity is something electrical.. My Esoteric dealer found it out when joining one of the listening sessions as he was confused that I still preferred the DV-50 S to the DV-60. To be honest - a modded DV-50 S is stillmuch better than a stock DV-60 ;)
I had a Sansui 9090db reciever that was purchased in 1975 and I estimated that it has close to 20,000 hours on it and a lot of those hours were run hard at parties with basic cables. My brother bought it first then I bought it from him and then gave it back to him. I think my 2 year old son will end up with it someday. The unit works great today. A well built cdp will last a long long time. I would not worry about wearing it out or anything else in a system that has descent build quality. Speakers on the other hand can take more of a beating and drivers will need to be replaced probably more quickly than a good player will need to be replaced. Putting 500 hours on a system to break it in is just puppies piss.
What exactly is "wrong polarity" and how did you figure out this was a problem. You have done a total 180 in your comparisons? I am a little confused, please elaborate?
I didn´t spent to much time comparing the video capabilities. In short: DV-60 is def. better than DV-50 S on video. DVD-A was better with UX-3 SE - although I just compared two DVD-A´s (Kraftwerk and Michael Jackson).
rest assured that the DV-50(S) is built very well and will easily handle many more hours than just 400.
Hello Dlbd - I'm not questioning the overall build quality of the DV-50S. Nor do I think that a DV-50S can't handle 400 hours of total playing time. That's not at all what I was referring to.
The post I responded to recommended "break-in" via 400 hours of UNINTERRUPTED playback. I do not think it was designed for this. I don't care how good the build quality is, it's still an electromechanical device with a limited lifespan. 400 hours of uninterrupted playback isn't break-in, it's accelerated wear.
So, if this has been the standard "break-in" regimen that most DV-50S owners have followed, I won't be buying a used one. That was my point.
Regarding my post above - before anyone jumps all over me - I don't question that Esoteric has done more to change the DV-60 from the DV-50, I just feel that what I mentioned would be the big points that alone would warrant a new model.
Since lots of people are dumping their DV50S models to buy a DV60, I was thinking about picking up a used one. You just talked me out of it. 400 hours of constant spinning is abuse, not break-in.
DV-60 vs. DV-50 S vs. UX-3 SE update. After now roughly 450hrs. of playing time the DV-60 S is still inferior to the DV-50 S playing CD and SACD and still far away from a UX-3 SE performance. Regarding DVD-video DV-60 is quite a bit better than DV-50 S and more flexible.
Like I said, I like more weight just because it make me feel like I am getting what I'm paying for...totally a psychological thing with me. Nevertheless, I have had lighter weight gear crush heavy gear when listened to, so it is not at all a consideration/deciding factor for me. Besides, once it is in place, no one knows the weight.
Funny thing - another AgoNer has pointed out that all my gear is big, heavy, or ugly or some combination thereof. :-)
DV-60 update! Using the Dv-60 as a "TRANSPORT ONLY", proved to be superior over the Dv-50. The sound quality is quite stunning. Even, when compared to a highly Modded Dv-50s. Its quite obvious, as it should, since it spins the Cd at a higher rate, loading Bit perfect extractments in to memory buffers. The buffers are large enough to hold about 8 to 10 seconds of Redbook. What really surprised me, it was the best buffer driven transport I heard to date. Usually, with other buffer driven digital sources, Especially, like with the SB3, and other "bit perfect" COMPUTER based sources, there is such a noticeble "grunge" with in soundstage that made the music hard on the ears. I always ended up hitting "next" on the remote, or turned the volume down, or just shut it off altogether. This is what the Dv-60 Transport mechanism lacks, and its that grudge. (YES! A GOOD THING.) So, where did that grunge go? Looking at the transport control boards, I see a very well laid out, un-conjested PC board design. Its not the conventional "sandwiched" design, under the transport mechanism kinds..... Instead, it's mounted away from the transport, by its side. Designs as such are noted for a much lower HF noise floor. I can say this has a major impact to do with the maintaining the data integrity that is extracted from the Cd. And this is why the sound quality is fabulous. I have yet to fully tap the potential of the Video, due to my HDTV lacking a HDMI input. What I heard from "my contact" when the video is upscale threw the HDMI output, a DVD would look like it was HDTV. And from the Dv-60's digital output, standpoint alone, I see no reason to doubt it!
DBLD, the weight DOES help alot. Bass, and focus some of the gains noticed One really nice feature is the 3 footers. Integrated cones with bases. In a triangular configuration.
Ah yes of course DBLD, no magic to it. . . up to 800 hrs the beast was on full time almost 24/7 for almost 6 weeks, with the rest of the system turned off unless I wanted to do some listening. After that point I slowed down a little.
Anthony, After 850 hrs of playing time I thought the X-01 sound had stopped changing. However, with hindsight, I realize now that a subtle evolution still took place until the unit had approx 1200 hours of playing time on it.
Keep in mind that the Linn Unidisc weighs something like 20# or less...and most folks really like the way it sounds too. I gather several Esoteric units use very thick solid steel cases which is where the bulk of the weight comes from. Does this help with vibration control? Who knows...?
In the end, I feel the weight has little bearing on the actual CDP performance. Nevertheless you certainly do "feel" like you're getting your money's worth when it's heavy.
The DV50(s) units weight comes from the heavy metal (lol) bottom panel (mostly), and middle top panel and some from the two side panels. When one removes the panels and side covers, the unit is actually pretty light after that point. The new DV-60 uses a one peice lighter aluminum top cover and apparently lighter (and thinner) bottom plate. The DV-50(s) feels more like a tank in comparison.
Sorry Frankpiet, I have no interest in cars.I broke in My X-01 for approx 850 hrs of almost uninterrupted playing time, while I left the rest of the system turned off days at a time. It turns out I should have broken it in for a couple of more hundred hrs, as the sound actually still kept refining after that milestone.
06-28-06: Chichiuno Sorry, My Bag.. the Dv-60 does not use the same Pioneer drive as the DV-50. ( was a late night)
Thanks for the clarification, I hope the new transport proves reliable.
Anthony, after reading all your comments on the new DV-60, I'm wondering where the big reduction in overal weight (47 lbs. vs 31 lbs.) comes from? I read that Teac claims to be using aluminum top and side panels on the DV-60. That would account for some weight reduction. Perhaps the new transport is substantialy lighter?
Tvad: you´re a luky man. With my working hours I´m happy if I find an hour time per day for intense listening - as many friends of mine. So one hour per day times 400 is ... ;) Guidocorona: I hope nobody follows my "radical advice" - but which manufacturer produces stuff that only performs at its best after hundreds of hours of use? Just imagine a BMW 650ci would only accelerate properly after 10.000km driving or a Pateck watch that shows the corretc time after a month of constant wearing.. ?? Don´t forget: most high-end units have already surpassed 30 to 100 hours of break in at the factory due to intense testing and listening tests.
Addition: Dv-60 uses Teac's horizontal sled and vertical optical assembly. A plus over the Dv-50. Unlike the Pioneer drive, the control boards are not sandwiched under the drive assembly. They are laid out cleanly, in an uncongested manner. Again, Inductor based ground decoupling is heavily employed, showing a well designed control board. Much more Robust engineered, over the Pioneer dive assembly design. In regards to the Dv-60 power board, despite being a smaller footprint over the Dv-60, as above, inductor based filtration, is used with a well designed power board, over the Dv-50.
I should like to add that, having a tender heart by nature, I cannot bear the thought of any Esoteric players being thrown out the window in a tizzy after an incomplete break in period of 400 hrs or otherwise. If anyone were tempted to follow Frank's radical advice, please get in touch with me first. I will be delighted to provide you with the mailing address of my humble audiophilic abode, where your abandoned unit will be sure to find an nurturing and loving adoptive family!
I spoke with my technical service contact this morning at Esoteric and according to him the transport in the DV-60 is indeed manufactured by them. The Pioneer info posted here previously is erroneous.
Tvad: I´ll double check the units again this weekend together with a friend who intends buying either used DV-50 S or new DV-60. In the meantime the dealer promised to me that the unit will have at least another 150+ hours of spinning break-in CD´s/ music cd´s/sacd´s on it. So we talk about 350 - 400 hours of break-in time. If the unit doesn´t perform 100% after this intense treatment -then simply throw it away as it will take a normal listener several month to reach 400 hours of use. In the meantime I´ve send my own UX-3 SE to my favourite modder to give him the ultimate treatment..
Dv-60 same Pioneer drive as dv50, but the dv-60 has half the size of the Dv-50 power supply, and a 1/4 of the size what the Dv-50 uses as the HQ 2 channel output.
Anthony are you sure the DV-60 still uses the Pioneer transport? The sales literature claims the transport is a "newly designed,engineered and manufactured drive mechanism"
I agree 100% with Frank. I currently have 2 of each, of the Dv-50, Dv-60 and one UX-3. A dv-50 is very easy to uncork the performance. Dv-60 same Pioneer drive as dv50, but the dv-60 has half the size of the Dv-50 power supply, and a 1/4 of the size what the Dv-50 uses as the HQ 2 channel output.
UX3 has serious potential, ready to be unleashed, but a major bottle neck I found within the core board prevents this beast to be unleashed. (Fix is almost there) A big plus for the UX-3 the analog board is very similar to the UX-1, another plus the UX-3 has a New (Neo) drive assembly over the UX-1, with a final plus the UX-3 can upscale the Video, via DVI, while the UX-1 cant.
Dv-60 can upscale the video threw the much wanted HDMI, While the others lack this feature, with the exception of the PO-1 and PO-3. What get me nuts, it has the ABT top chip that can support HDDVD and Blue Ray, looking at press photos, the Dv-60 was shown sporting the 2 optional ram chips to be used with these features to top it off. Meanwhile they disabled the chip to support these formats! :c(.....My Likes of the Dv-60 internal... Cute little R-core t-former, and despite the smaller power board section, nice to see multi - Inductor/capacitor filtration being used. Unlike the DV-50, the rest of the video section looks great. But all analog sections are nothing like the more robust section used in the Dv-50...
My wish: Give me a dv-50 with the video section of a Dv-60 (re-worked of course)
In reality: total re-worked Dv-50
Ux-3: A beast, re-worked, but I think at this price point, I would like to see HDMI.
Looking forward to: The Next new model to be released!
Disclaimer: This is my personal IMO, looked at from the inside and out.
All the Best! Anthony Aberdeencomponents / mauimods!
TVAD, that's the problem. . . so many manufacturers and dealers manage to convince and assure end users that just about 100 hrs of break-in or less are plenty, just to get those bothersome consumers out of their corporate collective hair. In the end they do themselves a royal disservice, as we are witnessing in this particular case.
As for myself, the last device I purchased that required less than 200 hrs of breakin was a bread toaster!
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