Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?

Mgottlieb, I had the same reaction as you, thats why I went the with the modded units, Exemplar, and APL 3910's. Both for less than the cost of 1. I use 1 for HT/mulitchannel/SS, and 1 for 2 channel/tubes.

AVGuru, I will come to your house, so you can compare DV-50 balanced, with Exemplar, that way it's in your system, with your ears. This is the only way we will be able to come to an accurate conclusion here. I am curious to see how much better the DV-50 is in balanced mode too.

Jmpwme--no, sorry.

711,

I am definitely looking forward to hearing the Denon at my home. If in fact it sounds better than my Esoteric DV-50 (I'm talking redbook here) then bye-bye DV 50. I love my DV 50 for redbook but I'm looking for something that's a bit warmer and more musicalwithout sacrificing the incredible detail, resolution and transparency I enjoy from the DV 50.

I am going to miss running things balanced, however. The Exemplar modded Denon does not have balanced outputs. Despite what many people say about balanced only "appearing" to sound better because its louder, I know better. Balanced (short and long runs) brings blacker and quieter backgrounds, increased soundstage depth (not width) and deeper bass. I've proved it time and time again.

We will run the Exemplar Denon 2 ways...analog out and digital out. Analog out will put to test the quality of the analog output stages, op amps and internal dac of the Exemplar to see how it compares to the DV 50.

Then we will go digital out to my Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro..which has state of the art digital processing and automatically upsamples any incomming digital signal to 24/192. By switchingback and forth between digital and analog via the Anthem remote we will be able to hear which unit has the better dac...the Exemplar-Denon or the Anthem.

Interconnects (both balanced and rca) will be the incredible Nirvanna Audio SX and for digital we will use Kimber D-60 and Tributaries top of the line silver digital. I will use stock power cords and disconnect my line conditioners so we will hear the componenents "au naturale" with no outside colorations.

Rest of the system will include the Cary Cinema 5 amp (5 x 225)and B&W N803's. All speaker cables are AZ Satori Shotgun.

This ought to be fun. Let's get it on!

AVGURU

AVguru, after you perform the test using stock chords, you may want to put specialty chords and conditioners back in place. There are two good reasons for this:
1. Stock chords of Esoteric may not be the same as Denon chord.
2. The two units may benefit from improved chords in different ways. As you will apply upgraded power chords in the end, you may as well take them into consideration during your test session.

Guidocorona,

You bring up some good points.I actually have two stock cords for the DV 50 so I will use one of them on the DV 50 and the other on the Exemplar Denon. My rationale here is the stock cord for the Esoteric is at least as good as the Denon's and probably better. So they should be on equal footing.

I really do want to hear the traits of each player without the added benefit of power conditioners and after market chords. I agree that after the "stock comparisions" it would be nice to add after market cords to each to see how they affect the performance of each player. The problem is invariably one cord will probably affect or benefit one player more than another. I have yet to see a power cord affect two different cd players in the exact same manner...though I will prefice this statement by saying I've only used a total of five different after market power chords in my system. So there maybe others out there that are consistent from player to player.

I have had the DV-50 for about a year and a half. It beats out my previous Sony SCD 777 ES and Dodson 2l7 combo on everything including well-recorded redbook CD's. The only universal player that outperforms it is the Linn Unidisk 1.1. The Linn has more detail, along with a very musical sound, but it is twice the price, and has had some serious "bugs" which I understand are mostly solved now.

Can't wait to hear the results of the test.

Yes, I will eagerly await the results. I'm especially interested in the transport comparisons. WOW, this is gonna be good!
When is the head to head scheduled?

AVguru email me your info buddy, your gonna love this. You will have a once in a long time chance to hear something amazing in your system. Call me on my cell too.

AVgurau, woudld you do your comparison on high resolution format such as SACD and DVD-Audio too. I am interested to know. In my system the high-res format surpass the redbook playback 90% of the time.

I just ordered the Tri-Vista Integrated by MF, which doesn't have balanced inputs. How do you think it will work with the Esoteric DV-50S with the RCA connectors? Are there better options with the MF for using the RCAs? Thanks in advance.

Though I have not personally heard it, many I know swear by the Reimyo CDP-777 for single box CD only player sweepstakes.

Sinosin,

You and I have talked and we both have a love for (and have aggressively defended) the playback of the DV-50. It is a tremendous player (especially in its price range) and I highly recomnmend it.

However, this evening I had the pleasure of finally getting a first hand audition of the new XO1. I'm here to tell you (and you know how loyal I've been to the DV 50) that it is in a totally different league than the DV-50. I AB'ed the two units side by side.

First of all, I know you love SACD. In SACD this player is simply awesome. The air, sense of space around instruments, floating highs, breathiness of vocals, expansive soundstage, etc is just breathtaking. It was like I heard SACD for the first time...I'm not kidding. It was better than vinyl.

Regarding redbook, this also blows away the DV-50. I now realize the DV 50 has slightly excessive (maybe a better word is overly aggressive) dynamics and the sound is somewhat forward and highly energetic with loads of detail. The DV 50 has balls and doesn't try to hide it. It runs full out in a sprint and shows you everything it has. I loved this sound (especially the transparency and detail) until I heard thew XO1 tonight. I regret auditioning this player as now I want one.

In comparison, the XO1 is a much smoother and more even handed player. It takes you on a gently undulating ride on the waves of the water. Even when large dynamic swings in the music occurs it never loses its compusure. Wheareas the DV 50 might startle you with these swings, the X01 presents them in all their glory but on an even keel.

The soundstage is slightly wider but the presentation is less forward than the DV 50. Detail is abundant but its not waving its hand saying "here I am" like the DV 50. I listen to a lot of jazz and what I really noticed is that symbols, brushes on symbols, bells and other percussive detail are not as exaggerated or upfront. The DV 50 tends to spotlight these sounds and bring them too far forward in the soundstage. The XO1 provides the same detail but it doesn't unnaturally highlight it like the DV 50 can. Transients have more snap and are quicker. The bass has even more impact and slam than the DV 50 but with a touch more definition. Its a highly evolved and sophisticated sounding player.

The other two areas that it excels in is a richer, fuller sound (I noted pianos sound more richer and life like) and space. The space around instruments was incredible. With the DV 50, sometimes instruments on densely packed musical passages (i.e 5 or more instruments playing at the same time) fight with each other for space within the soundstage. A saxaphone may have a hard time breathing and showcasing its full tonal and timbral traits because the piano, guitar, bass and strings are all playing loudly at the same time. The XO1 easily allows each instrument to "breathe" through the musical mix.

The funny thing is the DV 50 is still a great redbook and SACD player and if I had never heard the X01 I wouldn't have noticed the above "weaknesses" of the DV 50.

Now, here's the killer that I know will drive you over the edge...the XO1 sounds 2-3 times better with SACD's than with redbook! With the DV 50 sometimes a very well recorded cd can equal the sonics of an SACD. Not with the XO1. The SACD playback is consistently much better than the redbook. Its quite magical!

Since you're not particularly fond of DVD-A (I am) it appears this is the player for you. You can always find a very good yet cheap stand alone dvd player. My next goal is to audition a UX-1...but after hearing the XO1 (and noting the reviews state the XO1 is slightly better than the UX1) I may also be willing to forgo DVD-A and DVD-Video in exchange for the lovely sweet sound of cd's and SACD on the XO1.

I highly recommend you audition one!

AVGURU

AVGURU, your last post truly lifted my heart! My experience with the magical X-01 was like yours-- an unforgettable epiphany. The only thing I have found better than a pure Teac Esoteric X-01 is the X-01 augmented by a Shuniata Anaconda VX power chord connected to it.
Anaconda simply optimized what X-01 already does so well: imaging, sweet detail, sound stage in the three axis, instrument separation, and finally dramatically tightened the bass definition.
I have posted my findings on X-01 on Audiogon a couple of months ago at the following url:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1090867688&openusid&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocorona
I am planning to acquire this marvellous creature early in the new year.

AVGURU - thanks for the review. I look forward to hearing your experience with the UX1 - I will in the near future be going an A/B with the UX-1 and the Goldmund 18d. I've finally found a dealer that has both!!!

Thanks again.

AVGURU, I too am happy you listened to the UX-1, as I feel that now, you are prepared to hear, and be amazed by my players. BTW I tried calling yesterday, and this afternoon. Where are u? My life is very busy now, and I know you are on vacation, but, I am not. I haqve a business to run, and a family to take care of. Call me.

Smilin

Well, I just drove 120 miles roundtrip and had a GREAT time with AVGURU. Thanks for the hospitality and great tunes. Now, where should I start. This was a real eye opening experience. I brought both the APL 3910, and the Exemplar 3910 with me. The Apl still needs about 150 hours to break in, the Exemplar was just about done. AVGURU removed his VCR and I slid the Exemplar into its place. He was trying to find the right intercennects, powercord ect. I told him, it really does not matter, cause when I compared the DV-50 I was comparing with lesser units. AVGURU hooked up the Exemplar, put a cd into the DV-50, and we listened for a couple of minutes. I told AVGURU that it sounded 1 dimensional, like there was a vail over the music. He looked at me like I was nutz. I told him to use the cheapest interconnects, and powercord, cause IMHO I did not think there was any way in hell that my players could not sound any better than the DV-50. Remember, I have been thru this exercise before, even with the AA Capitole II, and MF tri vista. In my mind, AVGURU was about to be BLOWN away, BLOWN up, In another atmosphere, another zone completely. AVGURU has a eautiful setup, but, it sounded like radioshack to me, not high fidelity. I know, these are strong words. I have great respect for B&W speakers, and am on a mission to find the BEST digital on the planet, for home use and enjoyment. I will end with saying this, and wait until AVGURU chimes in. It took less than a minute to astonish AVGURU with the quality of these fabulous modded machines.

Is this just me bragging?

Did I say I told you so?

Am I having fun here?

NO, YES, YES

chime in buddy, and keep smilin

BTW, Thanks AVGURU for helping me make up my mind on these 2 extraordinary machines, please do not let the cat out of the bag, suspense is just too much fun.

Well, fellow audiophiles..its been a rough day today. Rough because my trusty Esoteric DV-50 did not fare as well as I would have hoped against either modded Denon 3910...the Exemplar and the APL.

Before I go into details about the test results...let me just say that the majority of audiophiles are at a serious disadvantage when it comes to buying audio equipment. First of all, most of us (due to a lack of time and access) will only audition a very small fraction of what's out there before we make our buying decision. Secondly, we are heavily influenced by reviews..whether we want to admit it or not. Finally, the mfg's love to get us excited with their technical marketing talk regarding specifications, measurements, new technology, the latest chips/dac sets and all the R&D they've put into their latest model.

Its this last area which really bothers me because over the years I felt like I've built up enough technical knowledge to be able to decipher between what improvments/features are just "bells and whistles" and which ones are really important. For example, I've been taught (or led to believe) over the years that a superior transport, superior build quality (in terms of limiting chasis vibration and resonances)and upsampling means a lot in terms of performance.

The DV-50 transport (while not their famed VRDS one) is still clearly superior to the off the shelf one denon uses (either Pioneer or Philips). The 3910's build quality, while decent, is nowhere on the level of the DV-50's. Finally the DV-50 upsamples to some ungodly frequency rate (1,700) while the Denon (even with the mods) doesn't upsample at all.

Additionally, I've never been enamored with DIY products or professional modders. My attitude has always been "why waste time modding a cheaply built unit when you can just buy a high quality player from the get-go?" Also, how can a modder improve on a product that a company like TEAC-ESOTERIC (known for their formidible engineering prowess and enormous R&D budget)spent considerable time designing and developing? So my logical conclusion was that even with mods the 3910 can't possibly come close to the performance of the DV-50? Makes sense, right? WRONG!! DEAD WRONG!! In fact, both units (APL & Exemplar) actually surpase (rather handily I might add) the performance of the DV-50. Let's get to the test results.

The DV-50 was connected to my Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro balanced. The APL and Exemplar modded Denons were connected via their analog out RCA's. Interconnects used were Nirvanna SX Ltds and AZ Matrix reference II's. Power cords were stock. No line conditioners were used.

Let me first say that the choice of interconnects used wouldn't have mattered one bit! I could have used a $400 interconnect on the Denon units and a $2,000 interconnect on the DV-50 and the Denon's still would have won. That's because the sonic characteristics and improvements with the Denon's are unique to the player..not the accessories. That was very obvious. But for those of you who want to know I did use Nirvanna's on both players during my first round of tests.

From the first few notes played by either unit (Exemplar or APL) the differences were readily discernable and not small in magnitude. The Denon's sound was airy with more space between instruments and a wider soundstage. There was also more soundstage depth. More importantly, the Denon's consistently achieved a two dimensional and in some cases three dimensional soundstage. The DV-50 was always a one dimensional sound. With the Denons, the soundstage was properly layered from front to back...with vocals out front and guitars, keyboards, bass and drums all occupying their own separate and distinct layers one behind the other. With the DV 50, sometimes the drums and other instruments would try to share the front stage with the vocalist.

Detail retrieval (at least to my ears) was about the same. In compariosn to the Exemplar, the DV 50 had more bass slam lsam and weight but the Exemplar had better definition. I've always thought the DV 50 was a little heavy handed in the way it reproduces bass so the Exemplar was a nice change. The APL Denon had equal slam and impact in the bass but its texture was decidely softer, whic led to a more analog sound.

Speaking of analog, both Denon's had a slightly warmer sound but this did not come at the expense of a loss of transparency or high end extension..both of which are normal trade-offs for warmth. In fact, both units had a more extended and definitely less digital high's than the DV-50. Additionally, I would say both units seem to have a small degree of added transparency over the DV-50 because the backgrounds were quieter (the old adage "less is more" definitely applies here). I don't know if this means the noise floor of the Denon's were lower than the DV-50, but it seemed you can hear deeper into the soundstage with the Denon's than the Esoteric.

Turning to SACD (we only evaluated 2 channel)the magnitude of the performance differences were even larger with the Denon's easily besting the DV-50 in all of the above areas including detail. Some of SACD the discs we listened to on the Denon's actually sounded very close to vinyl.

To summarize, despite all of the individual sonic improvments brought forth by the Modded Denon's, it was the sum of all of these characterisitics that led to the most satisfying listening session I've ever had in my music room. The biggest difference was the two and three diminsionality that I spoke of earlier. The Denon's were just consistently more involving, engaging and musical. I also noted that I was tapping my foot and nodding my head more (even to ballads) than I was with the DV-50. There seemed to be added PRAT and I'm not astute enough to pinpoint why...it just had better rhythm and pace.

I'm not going to get into a discussion as to which modded Denon (the Exemplar or APL) was the better unit. But I will unequivocally tell you that both units are superior to the DV 50 in redbook and SACD. It pains me to say that but it is the truth.

The DV 50 is still a great unit and if you read the list of other high end players that it beat in my AB tests (part of my earlier thread) you will see that it is in a league of its own. However, if you are unwilling to accept any compromises and hope to achieve the performance levels of players twice the price of the DV 50 then auditioning either modded Denon is a great place to start!

AVGURU

You two deserve a medal for swiftly making this comparison a reality. Before reading this, I had just finished boxing up the McCormack UDP-1 for return (see details in nearby thread). Your "shoot-out" reinforces my decision to continue to search for the most musically involving machine, which will likely lead to "extreme-makeover" for the Denon 3910 I'm keeping.

Very Intriguing AVGURU! Do you have a feel on how the modified Denons may compare to the Esoteric X-01? What is the cost of these modified Denon?

If you guys want to know about the mods from John Tucker (Exemplar), or Alex Paychev (APL HiFi) I probably have the most critical experience of anyone in the country, cause I put my money where my EARS are. I have compared in home to many HIGH end high dollar players, and have the in home experience others just talk about. Plus I am will to learn, and take the time for comparison. In fact, this just helps me, and us in MY journey to find the BEST digital source, REGUARDLESS of price. Guys, I would spent up to 20k on the best source, You just gotta proove it to me. I have listened to Meitner, DCS/Elgar, ect, and have not felt they have been better than what I have. Plus they are limited in formats. I am willing to play this game some more for you guys with the High Dollar stuff. Please, help lead me to audio heaven(digital wise)

AVGURU, thanks for the honest assesment of what we experienced together, and not taking my Thunder away from me. Remember, when you P/U the Higher end Esoteric, we need to compare too, I am lookin forward to your and my expressions when we do this.

Have fun in your audio journeys my friends and If you wanna talk, email me your #'s.

Steve Smilin

At the emplar website, looks like price of modified unit is $3500-4000 depending on options. If you already have a 2900, price appears to be $2500.

Thanks guys. It is really appreciated.

Which Denon units are they currently modifying? Is there any benefit to having the mods done to the 2910 or 3910?

Does anybody know the differences?

Bravo Avguru and 711smilin!!! Bravo!!!

AVGURU and SMILIN, we seem to have determined that very few CDPs are superior to DV-50, except that:
A. Esoteric X-01 is better than DV-50.
B. The two modified Denon 2900 boxes are superior to DV-50.
c. The APL Denon mod may be just slightly better than the Exemplar modification.

Now the question, at least for me is: are the modified Denons superior to the Esoteric X-01, or viceversa? Will you guys have an opportunity to audition them together, and compare them against one another?

Pardales, Thank-You, I am willing to have people come over and compare with other high end units too. If they have something I want to compare too, I will go there, within reason.

Kudos to AVGURU & 711.

Avguru I admire you for not being bias,many times
audiophile,are bias toward their purchase,and the
gear they own.CONGRATULATION FOR BEING HONEST.For
711,you are true audiophile and music lover, 120
miles of driving? Thanks again both of you.

It is FUN, for me, I just love this hobby, and the search for digivinal, heh heh heh, the best part is, my system, right now, with horn speakers and John Coltranes Blue train, he is playing right here in my room, better than any vinyl I have ever heard. Anyone up fof the challenge? Ain't this fun. Bet you don't know what player I am listening too. Email me if yawanna find out.

Smilins smilin tonight

Guidocorona,

That is the $1,000,000 question. Are the modded Denon's on par(or even surpass)the mighty X01? I'm not ready to answer that yet as I need to hear a head to head comparision. I won't make the mistake of under-estimating the modded Denon's again. And in all fairness, when I auditioned the X01 it was being played on $1,800 audioquest speaker cables, Legacy Whisper speakers (about 200 lbs each) and the amplification was the new Marantz Special edition 2 channel amps (I think model number was the 7SE or something like that). Also, the matching preamp. Each amp retails for $7,000 and the pre-amp is $7,500. More importantly, they had a seperate amp on each speaker. It was a decidely high dollar set-up. That's why its important I hear it on my sytem. I am trying to arrange for a home demo this week but I'm not sure if they're willing to let me do that. We'll see.

However, the X01 left a very strong impression with me and I can tell you some of the differences between the sound of the two units:

- In SACD the X01 was extremely impressive...not just great but almost out of this world. Detail retrieval in SACD was phenomenal.

- The redbook playback was extemely smooth and refined with a tightly focused soundstage and pinpoint imaging. The sound was much fuller than the DV 50.

- Bass was TIGHT with slam.

- The X01 is not a warm player hence it does not sound analog in redbook like the modded Denon's can. (SACD is another story). Its not cold or bright either...its playback is all about the truth.

-It was airier than the DV 50 but I want to say not quite as airy as the Denon's. It seems to me the Denon's put more air around the instruments while the X01 emphasizes space. They are not the same but its hard to describe in words.
The Denon has a slightly wider soundstage.

A key improvement over the DV 50 is soundstage depth and layering. But the Denon's excelled at this also.

The Denon may have slightly better dynmaics.

The PRAT factor on the Denon's were very good. I don't remember concerning the X01. However, I was surpised recently to find out that PRAT is not just a function of the cd player but also the pre-pro and amp. For example,
when I paired my DV 50 with the Bel Canto pre-pro it had an extremely transparent and dynamic sound but the pace was slow. When I replaced the BC with the Anthem D1, I lost a little of the dynamics and transparency but the pace and rhythm was much better and more aggressive...like comparing a marching band to a military "fast walk" exercise. So its hard to say which unit has better PRAT.

Both the denon's and the XO1 have a very refined and sophisticated sound. You can hear they are high end units.

To sum it as up, the Denon's (especially the APL) is like water coming out of a shower head...a wide, sweeping spray that is soft, airy, gentle and never harsh with extended highs and not as extended lows. Also has great dynamics.

The X01 (as I remember it in redbook) is like a high pressure waterhose. The soundstage is extremely focused and organized and every instrument has its proper place. It images extremely well. Dynamic swings are certainly heard and felt but never allowed to grab your attention to the point they take away from the musical flow. Instruments are timbrally correct and tonally rich but never "lush" like the Denon APL. If the disc is recorded poorly you will hear it more with the XO1 than either Denon.

Whereas the Denon's place a warmth and romanticism to the vocals that make you feel you can reach out and touch the singer...the X01 gives greater insight into the vocals...its like you've heard the words before but "never really heard them" until you listen through the X01.

Again, this is what I "remember" hearing but I need a refresher in the form of a direct face off. Should I get a chance to do that the results will be posted here.

AVGURU

AVGURU, I am looking forward to playing again, how about friday, at my place. That way you can hear horns on horns, and get a little different perspective. I would love to repay your hospiality. I really had a good time, hope you did too. BTW I love your discriptive abilities.

AVGURU, I herewith chime synesthetically with 711smilin's praises of your very descriptive metaphores!
Jokes asides, you describe the sound exactly the way I 'see' it, or in other words, the way I hear it in images. Hope you can borrow the X-01 this weekend and get together with 711 for some serious 'referencing'--as I have so renamed 'comparative auditioning' with a fellow audio-deseased buddy of mine from the Great White North.

Guidocorona,

Zactly!

711,

Friday would be a great day! However, the way most dealers work with home demo's is they like you to come on a Saturday evening (close to closing time) and then return it Teusday morning (most dealers are closed on Sunday's and Mondays). That way they can have the unit on the floor during showroom hours. I completely understand that.

In this case (because of the price) the dealer wants to charge my credit card $13,000 and then credit me when when I return the unit. Which is very unfortunate because I can go to two other dealers in this area and take anything I want home (regardless of price) with just my Drivers license and a copy of my credit card without having it run. And in any case, my credit card limit is about 2/3rd's of what they want and I'm certainly not going to the bank and pull out $13,000 out of one of my IRA's just to demo a cd player. That doesn't make sense.

So we'll see. If it doesn't work out its just a matter of time before one of my other dealers in the area (one of who is an Esoteric dealer) orders a demo unit. I've learned that when it comes to this hobby patience is definitely a virtue...otherwise you can really get screwed!

AVGURU

Why not bring the modified Denons to the dealer, in that case?

Guido,

That's an excellent idea and I will pose that question to 711. If the mountain won't come to you then sometimes you have to go to the mountain!

In the meantime I have some very good news! I found another dealer in my area that has both a DV 50 and a UX-1 on the showroom floor. He is more than happy to allow me to do a face off between both players. He's already told me that the UX-1 is considerably better than the DV-50 in both redbook and SACD but now I will get a chance to hear it for myself.

I actually spoke with Marc Michelson yesterday by phone (he reviewed both the X01 and UX-1 for Soundstage) and he told me that if he had to rank redbook performance of the three players that the X01 would be a 100, the UX-1 an 80 and the DV 50 about a 60. A 20% improvement in the redbook performance over the DV 50 is still quite substantial and would bring it closer to the modded Denon's. It depends on what areas the improvements lie in. But as far as producing two and three dimensional soundstages its going to be hard to beat the Denon's. I must admit that although the X01 offers better CD and SACD playback than the UX-1 I'm still torn between the two as the UX1 plays all formats and my system does double duty as both a 2 channel and HT set-up.

I'm also excited because this same dealer carries the Audio Research CD MK III (latest model) which is supposed to be a killer redbook only player and has many great reviews. It also has tubes like the modded Denon's so it shoudl give me a sound " at least in the same category...if not the sonic equal" of the modded denon's. Of course, I will AB the redbook playback of the AR against the DV 50. The dealer has already told me that the UX1 is a better redbook player than the AR unit. If that's the case it says a lot about the UX1. However, I don't know if its true as I found the Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP to provide better redbook than the DV 50 (despite my initial listening tests that led me to believe otherwise).

Tomorrow will be a GREAT DAY as I plan on doing all of my listening tests then. 711, if you want to go out to Morton Grove with me tomorrow (and bring your modded denon's) let me know. However, if you wish to just wait and make the ultimate comparision against X01 we can do that this weekend downtown.

Boy, being an audiophile is a great hobby!!

AVGURU

Sounds like you are going to have some fun! I can see how important redbook is to you. If you can find a dealer, you must hear the various Audionote DACs. I've heard the DAC 4 with an Audionote transport and the DAC 5 signature with Audionote transports and the 47 Labs transport. The DACs are pretty special. The Audionote dealer sells the Esoteric DV 50, but has not yet brought in the X-01. When he does, that would make an interesting comparison.

The @ $14.k Burmester player sounded good to me in a system that I was not familiar with. It was very smooth, rich and musical sounding, a bit like the Audionote stuff.

I have a player that is in the same price range as the X-01 that I also like very much (Naim CDS3). The top of the line Naim player is so much better than their prior models. It does not have the hard edge to the initial transient that makes the CDS2 sound mechanical and relentless. I like the way notes bloom in space they way they should. It is worth hunting down a Naim dealer for an audition. The Naim gear is more dynamic and has more "air" on top than the Audionote stuff, but it does not quite have that certain indescribable "magic" of the Audionote gear (could be just my imagination fueled by the truly exotic prices of the DAC 5 Signature).

AVGURU, morton grove is right down the street from me, call me and I will confuse the crap out of the salesman with my APL.

Great stuff AVGURU--or should I now call you Mohammed, since your forthcoming voyage of spiritual enlightment to the mithical audio mountain? It looks like 711 and you are getting ready to have a load of fun! My only choice at this time is to participate vicariously to the grand 'referencing' session. Esoteric against modified Denons: What a glorious shootout! Any chance of throwing in the EMM combo system in the mix?

Any chance that dealer also has the Goldmund 18D. I haven't been able to test it here. Local dealer claims the Goldmund is better than the DV50 but not as good as the UX-1. Would be great to see a comparison against the modded Denon's.

Avgura
You may want to add the new Ayre Universal player {approx.$6,000) to your list. It will hit dealers between Thanksgiving and Xmas. It is said to be one hell of a unit.

Arf! Arf!! Arf!!!

Jmpwme,

I looked long and hard at the Goldmund universal 18D. Actually, I think there is a higher one called the Eidos or something like that. There are definitely two models..I don't know if you're looking at the mid-level one or the
top of the line unit. I never did listen to it and the one dealer we have in my area doesn't carry that model.

Goldmund makes excellent gear and their amps and dac's are some of the worlds finest. Unfortunately, they pissed off a lot of dealers around 6 years ago by suddenly and totally pulling out of the U.S. market without advance notice or warning. Dealers were left with no technical/repair support and were stuck with units they couldn't unload. Over the past 2 years Goildmund has been making their way back into the U.S. market (with a new distributor at the helm)but it will take some time to make delaers forget.

There's a guy on this site (Audiogon)called Satellite to the Stars. He's a Goldmund dealer and a stand up guy so he should tell you the truth about comparisions with other units. He'll also give you a hell of a deal and may let you demo at home. He's located in NY.

Irish 65-

I love Ayre products and have been keeping a close watch on the new Ayre universal (CX5). I have very fond memories of the CX 7 cd player I used to own and it gave the DV 50 a serious run for its money before ultimately falling in an AB test. I still have never heard a cd player do bass better than the Ayre. Ayre is saying this new unit will have cd playback on the level of their current flagship the DX 7. My only concerns are:

1. This is the first SACD player Ayre has ever made.

2. No video so not a true universal (minor complaint)

3. No multi-channel capability for SACD or DVD-A.

My dealer will have one by this weekend and I will be sure to audition it. Interestingly enough, Ayre has an Esoteric X01 in their engineering department which they use for comparision purposes. If they go after a sonic prowess on the level or higher than the X01 then things could get very interesting.

711 has contacted me and we're all set for face off tomorrow. The problem is we're expecting 4-6 inches of snow tomorro and that will pose serious traffic issues for me.

I'keep everyone posted!

No go, no show for the shootout, guys, my players TROUNCED the DV-50, AA Capitole, MF Tri Vista, where the heck are you
going with this search. For the money, or even 3-5 times the money, there are NO players better, only different. I know this by putting my $$$ where my mouth is. I am getting off this bandwagon. If you wanna hear the best, email me and bring with whatever you have, and we will have some fun.

Enjoy the search, but, more importantly, enjoy the MUSIC.

I AM, heh heh heh

Hey guys,

Bad weather in Chicago forced the cancellation of this much anticipated showdown. It will resume this Saturday and A'gon member Jactoy will join us. Always good to have another set of ears!!

711 is under the impression that his modded Denon's will slay any and all contenders including those 3-5 times the price of his units. While I admire his confidence and readily concede the superiority of his unit over the ones we've already demoed, I am not ready to make or accept such a broad conclusion. This contest will continue through next Monday, where we will in that time frame go head to head with the Audio Research CD MK III (also a tube unit),the Esoteric UX-1, a Sony 9000ES modded by Dan Wright, the new Marantz SA 11 and finally the mighty, mighty Esoteric X01. The showdown with the Marantz and X01 probably won't happen until Monday.

Although 711 won't believe it till he hears it, his unit will definitely fall to the X01 in SACD playback. As I reported earlier in this post, the X01 produced the most beautiful and breath taking SACD playback I have ever heard, including 711's modded Denon's which I've already heard in SACD. The only thing in question will be whether or not the X01 will be as good as (or even superior to) the Denon's in redbook.

Please note we will be conducting these tests on some of the finest equipment in the world. Saturday's test will be conducted using Sonus Faber Cremona's and Proac's while amplification will be Krell and Levinson. Monday's test will be on Legacy Whispers with top of the line Marantz separates and Mono blocks. There will be no excuses in regards to associated equipment!

By the way, I've received e-mails from some of you who assumed that since I described the 3910''s sound like a "shower" compared to the X01 as a "high pressure water hose" that I prefered the 3910. Not true! Each player has its own perspective and only a head to head showdown will reveal which player is more musical. And I stress that "musicality" will be the final benchmark. That's what we all are striving for.

Also, I need to stress again that the DV 50 is one hell of a player (I'm listening to it now)and the detail and transparency is phenomenal. However, in the end it is just not as musically satisfying and engaging as the modded Denon's. I'm fortunate because if I never heard the Denon's I would have gone on assuming that nothing in the DV 50's price range can compete. I would have been believing a lie!

If the Denon's clearly illustrate their superiority in head to head battles against all of the above then and and only then will I end this madness and concede the modded Denon's to be one of the best cdp's in the world. At that point I will also put my DV 50 up for sale.

Soon the truth will be known! Buckle up in the saddle, brethren and prepare for one hell of a ride. Final destination is Audio Nirvana! Yeehaaa!!

AVGURU

Hey Avguru,
Please be sure to post the results of the above big shoot-outs! Thanks.
Lanny

I thought I'd inject a bit of a reminder about one thing before your OK Corral shoot-out: personal preference doesn't necessarily equate to qualitative difference. Components are voiced differently by manufacturers to do different things. The X-01, UX-1 and DV-50 are voiced by the same people, so it is fairly easy to tell that the X-01 does what it is supposed to do a small but significant amount better than the UX-1, and a greater amount better than the DV-50. Add an entirely differently voiced component into the equation, and it becomes much harder to generalize. I sold the Classe Omega and retained the DV-50 because I wanted to keep DVD-A playback when I got the X-01, which I dearly love, but there are times, on certain discs, when I miss the somewhat warmer, sweeter sound of the Omega, which I also loved. I'm used to changing perspectives because I have Carnegie Hall subscriptions in the 8th row center and 26th row center, and regularly hear the same orchestra under the same conductor on back to back nights from different places in the hall, and sometimes you have a hard time believing it is the same group. Which perspective I prefer is irrelevant to the issue of how well the orchestra is playing, just as it MAY be irrelevant to which player is doing its job better. If that weren't true, we'd all make the same choices. Enjoy yourselves.