If it can somehow be ascertained, it would be interesting to know what grid and plate voltages the Lampi operates the 300B at. I wouldn't be surprised if those voltages were considerably lower than in the Franks or other 300B power amps, and if that difference was a major contributor to the Elrog's performance in Dracule's DAC.
Best regards,
-- Al
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Dracule1,
Just goes to show that no product ever gets complete unanimous positive opinions/impressions. Variables and individual ears won't allow it to be. Sorry they didn't work out for you as they have for most of us posting here. I know I've raved about them, that being my honest experience with Elrog.
Charles, |
I've about 34 hours on the Elrog on my Lampi. Sorry to say I'm quite disappointed with the sound. Initially, I had great hopes. When I first plugged them in, I heard buttery smooth sound with accurate timbre. However, it was not as transparent, dynamic, tight in the bass, or extended in the highs as the Psavane 101D or the TJ Full Music 300B SE. Even with break in, the overall sound has not changed. The music feels slow with the Elrogs, and they are the least revealing of the tubes I have. Seems like the harmonics are somehow truncated. Not sure how to explain this given all the positive reviews they've received here. I'm wondering if my tubes are either defective or needs more break in. |
I was courageous enough to put the Takatsuki 300B on Lampi briefly.
Well, the difference from Psvane WE101D 1:1 replica was very subtle if any.
I guess I am really missing Elrog 300B's. They were the most resolving tubes on Lampizator.
Maybe after I settle down with my system, I will buy another pair and see if the issue has been fixed. |
JWM, Your comments remind me of the episode where Spock's father was suffering the Vulcan equivalent of Alzheimer's. He began to cry during performance of a string quartet. I have teared up a few times during a live concert, but me system, good as it may be, has never moved me to tears. However, having moved away from Indy, where live music is good and plentiful, to Tennessee, where the opportunities are somewhat sparse, has made my investment in a good system quite logical. |
The Elrogs in my amplifier are a smashing success. This solidifies my decision to keep these amplifiers the rest of my life. A premium 300b tube in an excellent designed /implemented amplifier just hit the right spot for my needs. Its has been 6 years of beautiful contentment listening to music. At some point I may replace the original Coincident power cords, That's about it. Elrog,Takatsuki or EML XLS are all worth their cost in a good 300b amplifier. Elrog leads this stellar group of tubes for my taste.
Charles. |
I think he would find us audio fools illogical because you cant reach for live sound. |
Brownsfan I sure do miss Spock Leonard Nimoy one of my favorites. I really felt sad when he passed on many different levels. |
Similar experience here. Good right out of box. :) |
Dracule, my thoughts are similar to those of Charles, which is not surprising given that we are talking about the same tube in the same amp. What I would add is that the break in was very subtle. At most, break in gave another 5% of what you had straight out of the box. May your tubes live long and prosper. |
Dracule1,
If it turns out that you like the Elrogs in your DAC then it's money well spent. These tubes are expensive.However operating in a DAC circuit should mean low tube stress and very long life. |
Charles1dad, thanks. I think the Elrogs in GG DAC is run at 1/10th power compared to amp application. So it may matter. I'll report when I have about 50 hrs on them. |
Dracule1,
In my case the Elrogs were very good straight out of the box( and just continued to improve). I'd say broken in by 40 to 50 hours. I use them in a power amplifier and you have them in a DAC, not sure if that is a factor. |
I have about 20 hours on my Elrogs now. How many hours does it take to break in these tubes? I don't want to comment until I'm satisfied I've fully broken them in. |
Dracule, keep us posted on your experience. |
Dracule1,
I hope the Elrogs serve you well. |
Got the Elrogs today. Will try them out over the weekend. |
Hi Jordan,
I think your Audion Golden Dreams would be a very tough act to follow. I understand your curiosity regarding the Lampizator 211 amplifiers, there's so much stellar audio choices available to tempt folks these days. I can imagine how much music listening enjoyment you're experiencing.
Charles, |
Charles, I was using the Luxman DA-06, along with the Melody P2688 line stage. Both are fantastic for the price, but going direct with the Big7 to the Audions gives even greater transparency, intimacy, ambient cues, and mellifluous midrange and treble tone. It's a little less impactful going direct, but all subtle inflections and micro dynamics are revealed so effortlessly that I just melt in my seat, confidently transported to the musical event where the recording allows. I'm digging it so much I decided to jump to the Golden Gate to see my if boutique parts applied to the same circuit can improve upon an already great sounding DAC.
I may eventually try Lukasz's 211 amps...I'm digging the Lampy sound! |
Germanboxers, I think you'll be very happy with the GGs. My understanding is the circuitry for GG and Big 7 is exactly the same, just some more boutique/expensive parts in the GG. Mine is black faceplate without remote volume control, so it looks simple, elegant and beautiful with the copper chassis. There shouldn't be any issues if your Elrogs are working fine with your Big 7. |
Charles1dad and Joe, risk for hum is always there for AC heated GG, especially using high power amplifiers. Even in my current setup, I do get a faint hum through the speakers with my current stock of output tubes, but you have to have your ears 1 to 2 feet away from the speakers to hear it. Hopefully, the Elrogs will be similar. I was about to order a set of the Takatsuki 300Bs, but if the Elrogs work out, I may have saved myself $400. Times have changed. I used to think spending $200 for a pair of DHT triode tubes was a lot. Now that will get barely get you in the door. |
Hi Germanboxers,
Our paths cross again LOL. We seem to have similar taste, this time the Elrogs. I didn't know you had the Lampizator Big 7 DAC. I thought you were using the Luxman DA-06 DAC. I suspect you'll love the Golden Gate, congratulations. You say the Elrog 300b was spectacular in your Audion Golden Dream PSET, I believe you my friend.
Charles, |
Elrog 300B's were dead quite on my Lampizator big 7. I still missed their sound very much! Sigh.
I do believe that Elrog and Takatsuki are the best current production 300B's. Takatsuki 300B's on Frankensteins and Voxativ reproduce the best treble that I can imagine. The flute sound is so sweet and delicate that it is almost unreal! |
I've been using my Elrogs in my Lampy Big7 for about a month without problem. After George replaced the set that was about to fail (anode was glowing red in one spot) in my Audion Golden Dreams, I didn't want to risk it going forward. George thought a PSET was a riskier design for the Elrog. They were spectacular in the GD's.
I do hope that the Elrog remains reliable in my Big7. I have a Golden Gate on order and the Elrogs would be my preferred choice to run, assuming the GG mirrors the Big7 on tube choice. The Elrog has been the top choice followed by Sophia Carbon Princess 300B and then the WE replica 101D. Also looking forward to hearing the EML Anniversary Globe 45's that the GG is being provided with. |
I was just going to ask about the GG but, Charles beat me to the post, LOL.
Hopefully, you'll be ok with the AC heating design. The GG suppose to be really special, Good Luck!
Let us know how it works out for you. |
Dracule1,
By all reports the Lampizator Golden Gate is a top tier DAC. I hope the Elrogs work out for you in this application and that there are no hum issues due to the GG's AC heating design. |
Thanks Joe and Charles1dad, I talked to George this afternoon. He seems like a stand up guy who's willing to go out of his way to support his customers. I ordered a set of the Elrogs for my GG DAC. Fingers crossed. |
Dracule1,
What George will attempt to do is match the Elrogs to the operation points of a particular amplifier. This is done with the cooperation of the Elrog factory. George's tubesusa.com has been mentioned on this thread several times. He has stood behind his customers with strong support.
Snopro(Joe) glad you received your replacement Elrogs. Your Takatsuki-Elrog comparison matches my impression. Both on their own merit are excellent. Hard to believe but the Elrog is more natural and musical than the superb Takatsuki in my system (that's some feat!).
Charles, |
And thanks for the link to George's website. |
Common autocorrect mistake, LOL. I'm not a vampire. I swear! Dracule means "son of the dragon".
Anyways, I'm glad George was able to accommodate your needs. I didn't know Elrog made higher voltage version. |
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Dracula1, To be clear the first set didn't fail. George took them back for a new set that better matched my Frank's higher voltages.
George is great to work with and he stands behind his tubes!
Here is his website: tubesusa.com |
Hi Joe, how can one get hold of George Lenz?
I'm surprised you're still sticking with the Elrogs. Metthias posted awhile back the Franks run the Elrogs near the edge if not above the recommended specs for 300Bs. I hope your second set lasts. |
Well after comparing the Elrogs to the Taks I can say the Elrogs are the better sounding tubes with my Franks.
They have wonderful weight and fullness of tone without losing detail and transparency. They are very musical, with piano in the lower registers they are so natural.
The Taks are a little thin in the upper bass and lower midrange in comparsion, but excels in the upper midrange and treble.
The Taks have excellent air and spaciousness and tighter bass.
They are both excellent, but IMS the Elrogs are better.
Hopefully, Elrog fixes the reliability problems. This is my second set that George Lenz gave me to better match my Franks. One of them failed in less then 40hrs. He replaced the bad tube and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will last.
They are really wonderful tubes and just make music hopefully, we'll have no more problems, we'll see. George stands behind his tubes and has great customer service so no worries there.
Joe
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Dear Matthias, given Elrog 300B failure in Wyan001's Lampizator DAC, I would not take the risk of buying a pair of your 300B tubes, unless I can be assured by you that your tubes will work fine with the Lampizator GG DAC and will be backed up by prompt replacement or refund if failure does occur. I'm really hoping you can assure me. Regards. |
Dear Matthias, thank you for responding to my concern. I have never used your 300B tube so I have no practical experience with AC filament supply with your tube. I have the Lampizator Golden Gate DAC that can use 300B, 45, or 101D tubes at the output. I really wanted to try the Elrog 300B tubes, but I was told by one of your former retailer in the USA that the Elrog will certainly FAIL if AC filament supply is used. The Golden Gate uses AC filament heating, so I was very disappointed. Do you think Elrog 300B is compatible with the Lampizator Golden Gate DAC? |
Matthias,
I find it quite interesting that the filament material so positively influences the sound quality of a tube. All I can do is confirm what I'm hearing, beautiful music reproduction.
Charles, |
Hi Dracule1
>Let's hope Elrog makes a version that can handle AC filament supply.
ER300B can handle AC filament supply...the problem is the residual hum...depending on the speaker sensitivity. Thats why we recommend DC heating.
The problem is the very small thermal mass of the very thin filament wires, necessary matching the heater specification of WE (5V,1.2A) using thoriated tungsten filaments (Filament temperature is about 1650°C instead of about 700°C).
We could build 300B using oxide coated filaments, but this would be another (boring) copy of the 300B only...
Using thoriated tungsten is the reason of sound improvment, because the behavior is very different.
Matthias |
Wyan, that's some high praise for the Elrog. I really like what the Psvane 101Ds do on the Golden Gate. Let's hope Elrog makes a version that can handle AC filament supply. |
Dracule1, Elrog is the best tubes that I heard on Lampizator. I don't even need to A/B with Psvane 101D 1:1 replica to know it is way better. Psvane has been a great performance tube and was my reference before. |
Yes, the Takatsuki shouldn't be a problem at all, it adheres to all the Western Electric 300b specs. The Elrog with its thoriated tungsten filament has some deviations from the W.E. standard. I received some new recordings and listened to music for about 4 hours last night. I just love what the Elrog is able to do. There's no thought of audiophile /analytical evaluation. Nope, you are just engrossed in the music being played. IMO the sure sign of a good audio product.
Charles, |
The Takatsuuki 300b were designed to match the WE specs. |
Wyan, the Takatsukis are suppose to be true 300B through and through, unlike the Elrogs. I'm thinking of getting them for my Golden Gate DAC.
BTW, how did the Elrogs sound with your Big 7? Were they the best sound you heard from your Big 7? |
All, I purchased my Takatsuki 300B tubes through Amtrans. Very prompt communication by e-mail; payment via PayPal and delivery within one week in very stout packaging.
I purchased my Elrog 300B tubes through George Lenz. George has always been terrific to work with. |
According to what I read on tube asylum, Elrog is expected to fix the failure issue by now. Any news on that?
Charles, I keep J2 only because I occasionally build loudspeakers and I need J2 to tweek and burn in some components. It is a very good SS amp though, top in its class. :) |
Hmm...one of my Elrog 300B seems to be dying (low conduction). Gary Alpern of True Audiophile (great folks!) was kind enough to give me this link. Wonder should send my set in now or wait until Elrog corrects the problem. No problem with replacements so far? |
Charles, I still keep J2 but I do feel that Frankenstein is a better amp driving Voxativ. It is significantly more responsive to source component change than J2.
Dracule1, thanks. I suppose that might be the cause then. I am also aware of Elorg/Lampizator issue reported by other users.
The silly thing is, after Elrog failure on my Lampi, I am reluctant to try Takatsuki on Lampi, and reluctant to try Elrog on Frankenstein. Maybe I should give these a try some day. |
Wyan001, I was told by TA the Elrog can only handle DC heating, despite what manufacturer claim. It is my understanding the Big 7 uses AC heating. So I would be very careful. |
Wyan,
Do you rotate between your Frankenstein and First Watt J2 amplifiers driving your Voxative speakers?
Charles, |
Gary,
Yes, Amtrans is very solid and reliable to deal with. After placing my order(via bank transfer) the Takatsuki pair, they arrived in only 2 days from Japan. |
