Ooh....I am sorry to hear that. Maybe the rep who talks to you forgot that it is you who keeps him busy....that type of employee is everywhere sir.
Shoot them an email and keep bugging....until they give in:-)) |
Mr Hieuli Sir, :-)
1. Dynaudio does not return my calls
2. I removed the driver and sent it to them - they have it
3. They assummed wrong doing on my part. It was after all, a single midbass driver that failed. Kind of strange IMO
4. They have a transferable warranty and I can get the original receipt but since they decided I burned the driver, it's my fault.
5. I am doing the work on the speaker, not Dynaudio. Funny that no one questioned a failure in the x-over, but I guess x-overs never fail.
I'm at the point where I'm hopeful they will even SELL me a driver since I've placed 2 calls and no return.
Nuforce replaced a board on my amp performing the labor, suppling the parts, and not caring that it was me that smoked the amp, and I wasn't the original owner. They fixed this problem the same day I gave it to them.
I guess having been screwed by so many, this positive experience stands out ;-) |
Mr. Desalvo55 Sir...:-))
I hear you. $550...is still a lot of money, half of my monthly rent...but I am sure you know that 80% of that repair bill went into labor & not the parts.
Did you know NuForce outsourced the majority of their R & D & engineering to China?
I think NuForce gross margin is a lot higher than that of Dynaudio so they can afford a few freebies here & there once in a while...:-))
Not sure if you can still get the speakers from AV123 after the incidents with the founder of the company.
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Well, it's like this.
My wife loves and is in the same boat I am when it comes to this crazy hobby of ours. So, being scared of the Dyns, we search for another solution. The LS6's. I'd feel stupid and rightfully so to sell one for another, especially given the AV123 demise, and the work I'd done to my current set.
I'm freaking pissed though. I wanted to love the C1's. We liked them and with a lot of material they sounded better. Although slow and somewhat limited in ELF they worked.
But 1 driver smoked. Not knowing why we have this dilemma. Dynaudio points it's finger at us. Speaking with some engineers who know us well, they have a different opinion. Regardless, what's done is done, pay the bill and move on.
Nuforce they are not. Oppo they are not. Slim Devices not.
Hielule5 - My wanted the LS9's... |
That's the thing with standmount monitors. They disappear and they pass the WAF test easily but if they have to deal with bass heavy stuff, accidents can happen.
Buy her a fake LV handbag and you can persuade your wife to give you the OK for a brand new pair of LS6 sir....:-)) |
The guy was more than a little thrilled with the sound. He was blown away. He'll be back for the speakers. He just needs to find the right room. God Bless that lucky %$#*! |
Maybe you can persuade the new owner of the LS6's to sell them back to you. Even if it costs you a little, sounds like it will be worth it. |
Mapman, You're right on both accounts however my feeling is that these speakers were well cared for. I've been in contact with the former owner who's offered to help in any way he can.
Speaking with the Dynaudio folks, they mentioned that driving these speakers with a lot of bass information can overheat the bass driver. Anotherwards, don't play it loud enough to put the driver in harms way.
Again, it might be that Shiny Toy Guns, B-Tribe, Bryan Ferry, Porcupine Tree, Depeche Mode type of groups/music aren't friendly to these speakers.
Using an outboard active cross over is another solution and one that was in agreement with the Dynaudio folks. Limiting low bass to these speakers would probably cure any future mishaps.
But why would I want to spend another 3K dollars in x-over and all the associated cabling to protect these speakers from burning? I might as well buy some Wilsons and call it a day (and a credit card payment - NOT).
Now obviously folks here aren't burning up their C1's.
We did and we couldn't stomach another failure.
The speakers are (or will be when the new driver arrives)in pristine condition and do sound wonderful. Maybe just not for us. |
Why not another pair of line arrays then?
Those dyns should not fry under normal use though. They were not new and you do not know the history before you acquired them, right? It's possible they had a problem prior and you just pushed them over. Used equipment can be risky. You can never be totally sure where its been.
Assuming you will repair the Dyns, you might just use the sub to take the load off them if you like it loud. Thats usually a best practice for smaller speakers in any case. |
The driver is burned. I am responsible for the damage so there will be no retribution.
There wasn't an "event" that took the driver out, nothing I can point to so that I can feel comfortable with these speakers in the future. Maybe it was simply US playing the wrong style of music. Do we play loud at times? Answer is yes. My wife really likes it loud but not unreasonably so IMHO.
We have the LS6's back in place. They are sold and are being stored until the new owner finds a place for them.
With the improvements in our system I don't know of a speaker that will perform much better than the LS6's. We are regretting BIG TIME selling these speakers. We can't keep the C1's for obvious reasons such as "be careful of that volume control honey, you know what can happen". So we are back in the market for speakers. Something close to the level of the LS6's.
Last night the sound coming from our living room was so amazing I couldn't sleep last night. We finished with Elton John self titled SACD. Stunning. I shook his hand, thanked the orchestra and went to bed. Unbelievable. Effin incredible. Porcupine Tree? Dinner was ready but I was glued to the couch. I had dropped in some Magic II balanced interconnects between Pass and Cary thinking "this is gonna sound like crap" as they are new cables. Not only did they smoke my current set right off the bat, they got better and better and better through the evening. The dynamics and shadings and subtle nuances were just laid bare. It was a mesmerizing 3D experience. I ate half a dinner and jumped right back into it.
Now the line arrays are sold. Where to go. |
I meant to say that you can buy OEM drivers directly from Dynaudio.
When I purchased a cheap pair of Dynaudio DM standmount for my GF, I called Dynaudio NA and asked if I could purchase the OEM drivers from Dynaudio NA just in case my local dealers did not service my speakers and they said yes.
Could your wife listening habit be a contributing factor here? Dynaudio drivers are known for being tough & dynamic but that does not mean that you can expect them to work really hard day in day out without being burned out. After all the C1 woofers are fairly small and when they have to move much more air above and beyond their limit, accidents happen....
As you said, it does not make sense if the driver went dead over night.
The C1 sports fairly small drivers and the task of handling most of the lower frequencies should be handed to your JL subwoofers.
In this tough economic time the most reputable companies with the most generous customer service policies would have to cut back on freebies on repairs for customers to keep their doors open.
Hopefully you can get a reasonable bill from Dynaudio |
Have you consider maybe the monitors were overdriven as per your comments from related thread regarding your listening habits? My Line Arrays and Dynaudio monitor - where to go
"So we are spoiled by what these line arrays can do. The Nuforces drive them effortlessly into stadium levels where my wife likes the volume at, and at these levels, they never lose control over the lower registers." |
"If you can take the speaker apart, why did not you order the C1 woofer and replace the OEM woofer yourself? It is cheaper that way."
An OEM C1 woofer?
I did take the speaker apart. I pulled the driver myself and enquired about the repair as no one I know carries this exclusive driver.
The original owner is digging up the original receipt so it's possible to get some compensation from Dynaudio.
I've never had a driver failure and I've been doing this for 44 years. I was pretty amazed that the Dynaudio driver died without a clear cause such as miswire or runaway volume control.
My experience in the past with performance audio company's customer service is that they'll bend over backwards to make things right. I had blown up a Nuforce amp a few years ago. They took my amp, replaced the board the same day and charged me nothing even though it was entirely my fault. The same day!
We'll see how this turns out. |
Dynaudio spells out that their warranty is transferable within the first 5 years of ownership with some of their more expensive line like your C1 I think, IF you can produce the original receipt.
If you can take the speaker apart, why did not you order the C1 woofer and replace the OEM woofer yourself? It is cheaper that way.
I am not surprised at the expensive quote since labor costs in America and Denmark are expensive.
Dynaudio drivers are known to be hand wound and assembled in Denmark and thus they are usually more expensive than their competitors who outsource their drivers to China.
Maybe they are thinking that since you can afford to buy nonbudget or entry level speakers like the C1, you should be able to afford their services. My silly analogy is this if you can afford a BMW 3XX series then you should be able to afford a $600 routine oil change. Ever wonder why so many folks lease their BMW and turn them back to the factory after the lease terms expired?
I don't know if this will make you feel better but a guy I know busted one of the tweeters of his China made PSB T45 floorstanders shortly after his warranty expired.
Everyone knows that PSB 's made their speakers & parts exclusively in China but they still charged my friend $75 just for the tweeter alone. I think PSB charged a little bit over $150 for labor.
Dynaudio NA charged you a bit high but not because they want to make $$$ from you I don't think. It is just the labor costs in America & Denmark are too damn expensive.
The only way to save some $$ is check with the original owner of the C1 and ask him if he has time to dig up the receipt for you.
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Hope it works out with the original owner for a copy of the receipt;I was shocked also when I saw the $$$ for the replacement also;nice to see a company trying to work with you as well;hope it all goes in your favor.
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Rleff - Bill's a very nice guy. He doesn't think he can help me knowing the driver. He seemed shocked at the cost as was I. He wants to see a few pics before he can access damage and repair-ability.
I spoke with Amilios at Dynaudio. We had a nice conversation regarding the setup and power handling. He mentioned that the C1's really don't need the high power most folks talk about on the forums. I found that the Pass works far better than the Nuforces but then again I appear to have a meltdown from to much power or to loud a volume.
Now I'm more inclined to limit the C1's with a crossover.
My feeling is that Dynaudio will try to help me with this problem if I can produce a receipt. I bought them from an A-goner with stellar credentials so I'm hopeful he was a first time owner. I'll keep you posted. |
Desalvo55-how did it go with bill at millersound? |
The C1 crossover is at 1.8K so modifying this would not be an option for limiting the low end response. If you want to limit the low end response sent to the C1s, place an active crossover between the pre/power amps and direct the low pass to the Fathom F113. I currently using a Bryston 10B Sub @80Hz with first order slopes with my C1s. This configuration works very well when the C1s and subs are fully integrated. |
I haven't heard back from Dynaudio but I will give Millersound a call - thanks for the suggestion.
Having sold the LS6's I'm storing them for the gentleman who purchased them. I rolled them back into the room last night. I've been fighting a ground problem ever since I got the Pass but that's another thread. Suffice to say is that the balanced cable method seems to be the only method to kill the hummmm.
The C1's are great, no doubt but the LS6's have got to be the most unappreciated speaker around. The speed and control of these speakers make the C1's seem sluggish and veiled. Just listening to Neil Young's Harvest Moon last night, I was in awe at how deep I could here into the soundstage. It was as if I was walking into the layers of instruments and vocals, picking away at subtle nuances I NEVER remember hearing in these recordings. And this wasn't at the sacrifice of not being whole or analytical. I just kept shaking my head "whaduya doing disalvo". To make myself feel better I put The Verve "Forth" into the player. I remember it couldn't play this well in this setup. Well, it didn't and yet it did. With the C1's and their 85db efficiency, running single ended to the Cary, it took more balls from the amp and gain from the Cary which resulted in some very nice sounds on the C1's. Now with the LS6's 91db efficiency, running balanced, I can barely crack the throttle to get good volume. No doubt a mismatch. Regardless, the music was dynamic and detailed and still allowed for a nice midrange and smooth vocals. What I believe I was hearing was the actual recorded event. Neil Young is the master of recording even if you cannot appreciate the ancient tube preamp he uses when playing his electric guitar.
Although it didn't look it by a long shot, it's possible the Pass is still breaking in. It's easily the best amp I've heard besting the Nuforce 9SEV2's. I'm hopeful to hear a few more good amps in my room as there's another C1 owner nearby who promised to drop by with some stellar equipment.
Looks like I hijacked my thread... |
the rowland had 500 watts @ 8 ohms / 1000 watts @ 4 ohms per channel.
but i believe what came out from the amp was direct unfiltered current. |
The C1s should be able to handle 300 clean watts. Dyns are known for being strong speakers. My Dyn 52SE & Sub20A (soon to be for sale) hande the wattage from my McIntosh MC252 just fine |
mate don't worry you're not the first
i busted all tweeters and drivers for my C1, fcking jeff rowland continuum amp controller got hijacked signal from my tv remote and went max volume
it took less than 7 seconds.
local (australia) dealer quoted me 6600 AUD for replacement.
i think i'll let them suck my ***** for that price
all the best in getting them fixed. |
If not covered by warranty and you think the $$$ are high I would give Bill Legall of Millersound a call;he is one of the most respected repair people in the business and will not stear you wrong.Here is the number if interested
Bill Legall at Millersound, (215) 412-7700;no relationship just a customer who received great advice and service. |
The C1's really sound the best when driven fairly loud. That being said with your amp it's possible to be over driven. I met with 3 Dynaudio reps at my dealer on 2-27 and they told me they have one of the lowest failure rates for speakers. Lowest doesn't mean - zero failures. I'm sure if you send the bad driver back to Dynaudio they can tell you what happened if you get a replacement.
Personally I would not change the crossovers in any way.
BTW I too own a pair of C1's and love them. I can't think of any way to make them sound better. |
I was running my C1's with a pair of Nuforce 9SEV2's and noted that on some material, I could hear the cone having issues that was not pleasant. Deciding that my little copper jewels didn't have the ba, ah, current to drive the C1's, I sold my Nuforces and bought the Pass 350.5. No more weird little issues now but maybe the damage was done earlier.
Still waiting for an email from the Dynaudio folks.
Would like to have a simple method of crossing the Dyn's higher like a change in the x-over. I would think it easily done but I'm no speaker designer. I did grab the values off the caps and still wonder about the platinum bypass caps. |
I purchased a pair of C1s here and shortly their after found one of the bass drivers had a problem at certain frequencies. I was using a set up disc to dial in a sub and the issue was immediately evident. I spoke to my local dealer that I have done a fair amount of business with and they ordered me a matching pair of bass drivers. I replaced them and they worked perfectly until I sold them. I am sure the most any Dynaudio dealer will be happy to help. Good luck, Jerry |
The most common cause of blowing out speaker drivers is clipping from an amp being overdriven.
I don't know what amp you use, but offloading the low end to a good sub like that sounds like the right thing to do.
Also, if the large excursions are due to rumble during vinyl playback, you might want to look into getting a handle on reducing that because that drains power from the amp in order to reproduce noise, not music. For digital and other sources, rumble should not be a problem. |
I've spoken with the Dynaudio folks who were suprised to here that one of their drivers went down. The gentleman I talked to said it was the first he's known about. Lucky me.
The cost to replace is about $550 dollars. I'm hopeful they'll cut me a deal. I'm shipping the broken driver back to Dynaudio.
The prior owner I'm pretty certain had nothing to do with the problem of this speaker. They played fine for a month..
We sometimes play music pretty loud, especially my wife. I hope this isn't a pattern to continue. I would hate to feel shy turning up the volume on 7K dollar speakers for fear of breakage! That being said I'm wishful for a way to limit the low end excursion on these drivers and allow my JL Audio Fathom F113 to fill in the space below say 40-45Hz. I think this would have a positive effect on the C1's and perhaps ease my fears of broken drivers. |
Prior seller/owner should be able to help yo with your situation by getting warranty work under his name and copy of receipt. For the C1 I would expect the mid-bass woofer to be around $800. Worth a shot contacting the prior owner. |
Not familiar with Dynaudio warranty policy specifically, but you generally need a receipt, registration or some dated proof of purchase to obtain service under warranty from any vendor.
If not under warranty, or dated proof of purchase is not available, then I'm sure you can still receive service, which in this case probably means a replacement driver or shipping of speakers to a service center, but you would have to pay.
Or, if you think the speakers had the issue when you acquired them used, you might take it up with the seller to determine if warranty can be established or some form of compensation if the condition was not as advertised. |
