Yes, I still have my DV-50. Love it and would not upgrade or change it in any way,
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Anyone still playing a DV-50s ?
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For anyone interested, Alex Peychev of APL has started his own dedicated discussion forums. You will find several related discussions at:
http://www.aplhifi.com/phpBB/
Both current production and work in progress is discussed. |
Just got my apl modded 3910 - took awhile, but OUT OF THE BOX with upsampler it sounded better than DV-50s on all media. That is COLD, with 0 hours on the player. I know it hasn't even "opened up" yet - I am hundreds of hours away from that happening and can't wait! This is when I wish days had 36 hours!! |
Metralla- no need for apologies. Glad to see you haoles discovered the message.
FYI- mele is also the Hawaiian word for music.
Aloha, |
I had only about one hour to listen to the Exemplar/Denon 3910 today as a grandson is sleeping in my audio room for Christmas. The unit has now finished 12 continuous days of operation or 288 hours. Last evening an equally brief listen showed it to continue to improve. Today's caused me to be disbelieving. The micro resolution was complete from the lowest frequencies to the highest and dynamics were starling. I rushed through everything that I normally use in tests, such as several cuts of the Bermeister CDII cd. I have heard many very top digital players as well as lp rigs, never with either have I heard what I am hearing. Thank you, Santa. |
I wouldn't have known what it meant, except that my wife's brother married a woman who lived in Hawaii for several years. |
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metralla - don't feel too bad, i thought the same thing for a few days.
glad to know that i'm not alone in my stoopitidy. |
Kana813, Apologies to you. Now that I see your closing in complete form, it's obvious to me what Mele Kalikimaka & Hauoli Makahiki Hou means. I stupidly thought in a previous post of yours (a different thread, perhaps) that when you wrote "Mele Kalikimaka" you were signing your real name. I feel like such an idiot. (Wiping egg off face) So ... "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" to you too. Regards, |
Dennis_the_menace wrote: Maybe the Exemplar sounded better to TBG because he has a different system, and values different musical presentations? Bingo. That's for sure. |
TBG, We are all on the same quest. Your individualistic approach and Steve Milin's collegial one are clearly different, but equally valid in themselves, and valuable to many of us.
As you appear to be a resident of the Lone Star State, I am not surprised by your inborn reluctance in relying on the opinions of an external collegiality.
I am looking forward to your Exemplar review. I am likely to make my eventual final decision based on a synthesis of my own judgement and ears and those of a few respected fellow audiofools, including some of the members of this and the excellent DV50 Chicago shootout thread. |
Guys, I think it is unrealistic to try to follow the course that Steve is following, nor do I think that I or anyone can generalize from his or other shootouts. At CES, I will hopefully hear Alex's 3910. There is a very remote possibility that it will so impress me that I will try to get one to actually compare with John's.
I have known John for many years and do really wish well for him, but I have an understanding with him that I tell him exactly what I think, which includes my telling him that I prefer the H-Cat linestage to his and earlier that Allen's Level 4 were better than his second version of the 2900.
I post here only because others have asked me to do so. I have always sought the best sound I can afford within reason, but I am not about to always try every unit available to pick the best. I did this once on interconnect and another time on ac filters. Even for me this judgment was good for only about six months and was too much a pain in the ass. For others I urge readers to be aware that they might because of tastes and systems come to a different conclusion as others and I have realitive to the use of the 6829 or 7062 pinch waists in the Exemplar/Denons.
After Christmas I will have time to write up my impressions of the Exemplar 3910 versus the Exemplar 2900. |
"The price of $4950 is a downright steal, comparing with retail units."
If you have $4950. to spend and your primary focus is optimizing Redbook playback here's an alternate approach(all prices are retail):
Stello CDT-200 transport - $1195.
(www.aprilmusic.com)
TacT S2150 power dac(150w @ 8 ohms/300w @ 4 ohms)- $2990.
If you have analog sources add- $490. for the ADC card
(www.tactaudio.com)
Audience Au24 AES/EBU digital cable - .5m- $330.
(www.audience-av.com)
No mods required, just add speakers and sc cables.
Since youll no long need a preamp and amp, you can sell all that gear and buy fancy power cords,a power conditioner and lots of music,. Efficiency is 90% with the TacT, so you'll also save money on your electric bill.
Mele Kalikimaka & Hauoli Makahiki Hou |
Dennis, you bring up a very good point.
Once you reach certain rather exalted levels, personal preference also plays a significant role.
From my personal discussions with AVGURU and JAYCTOY it would appear that they perceive the sound of the ModWright Sony 9000 [not the latest moded 999ES model) to be slightly lusher, open, detailed, and with an even larger sound stage than APL. My two friends found the ModWright even more of their liking than the APL 3910--prior to the 3910's reclocking mod.
As I understand, conversly 711SMILIN finds the Modwright to have even too large of a soundstage, perhaps resembling that of a church, and the sound print to be slightly euphonic. |
Maybe the Exemplar sounded better to TBG because he has a different system, and values different musical presentations? I'd be curious to hear the differences in presentations between the Exemplar, the Modwright and the APL. Each of these units have been proclaimed "the best" by different audiences, and it leaves me wondering HOW DO THEY DIFFER IN PRESENTATION/SOUND? |
Tbg,
As you know I am nutz on this audio journey for the best digital. I have owned the Exemplar 2900, 3910, APL SACD 1000, 3910, plus a plethora of other fine machines. I, in fact have compared the 2 3910's side by side in my system, AVGURU'S system, and at quintessence audio. IMHO, the APL 3910 is without a doubt, the BEST digital I have heard to date. Bar none. If you would like to hear it, I invite you to my home, or maybe I can come by yours. I really think you would understand what I am hearing, when you directly compare, in your system. I agree that the Exemplar is an Excellent unit, John is a genious. The price of $4950 is a downright steal, comparing with retail units. BUT, for the same money, or close, the APL takes digital to another level. I, unlike you, have never sold any lines. I have also ordered the Modwright 3910, which I will receive following the CES show. I am impartial completely. I only write from my own experiences, in what I hear, and experience. Please do not make rash statements as you are doing with the Exemplar, until you actually hear the other units side by side. The Exemplar is wonderful, IMHO the APL is leaps ahead of it.
I also am still waiting for my Exemplar Exception II, with siltech, and remote volume control. I am fair to all manufacturers, and just report my true experience. I look forward to meeting you Tbg.
Best |
Tbg - When you get the time to do your review of the Exemplar 3910, I would love to read how it specifically improves upon John's 2900. Thanks. - Jfz |
Long ago I got John's first Denon 2900 mod. I have been through four versions of it including one that caused me to sell my Allen Wright Level 4 moded Sony 3000. I knew that John was going to have to replace the 2900 as the base as it was no longer available. When he told me that to his great surprise the mods on the 3910 were substantially superior to the moded 2900, I ordered one.
I heard both Dan Wright's and Alex's early mods and was not impressed. I am sure the current mods are good, but I personal doubt they equal the Exemplar mods. I guess I will never know really, but I expect Exemplar will get another rave review from 6Moons. I am certainly impressed with 240 hours on it. |
Oops, TBG, I goofed again, you wrote Exemplar and I read APL. Sorry for that, My question stands though modified: how did you choose Exemplar over APL and ModWright? |
TBG: please share with us what finally tilted the balance for you in favor of the single-box single-tube APL3910, rather than the twin-box twin-tube ModWright 999ES. |
I have every reason to believe that the Exemplar/Denon 3910 at $4950 is the best within this range. I will give a full review when its breakin stabilizes and Christmas and my grand children are out of the house. |
The original question was what are good universal players in the $2k to $5k range. I too am interested in this. Any truth that the Marantz 9500 and Onkyo 1000 are worthy of consideration?
How about the McCormick or McIntosh (@ $3.5k and $4k I believe.) What else is coming down the pike? |
Ignoring all the hubris, my Exemplar/Denon 3910 now has reached 240 hours of breakin and is still improving. It is pretty extraordinary even now, however. |
"I for one would be most interested in knowing from people who have had experience with the TacT DSPs and digital amps. Who will take the baton?"
Guido- suggest you start a new thread on this subject, and visit the TacT users groups on Yahoo.
Hauoli Makahiki Hou |
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Guido- U da man [wink]. Wish more folks here had your sense of perspective and humor. "And Mele Kalikimaka to all, and to all a good night" |
Folks, may I gently point out the current caffaffle started because of an inadvertantly worded sentence by one of the contributors. The simple matter was cleared in private messages and should now be considered closed. We all had our reactions pro or con; we all had some fun; vented some audio steam; roared with rightious audiophilic wrath, played at "My DAC is Bigger Than Yours" and "My Powerchord is certainly Longer Than Yours. Now, let's all settle down. I for one would be most interested in knowing from people who have had experience with the TacT DSPs and digital amps. Who will take the baton? Guido |
Avguru,
Modesty is a better approach. Mele Kalikimaka caught you by surprise; you over-reacted just a little.
Regards, |
Wow, " ... the originator of one of the best, most interesting and most responded to threads going on Audiogon now".
That's quite the accomplishment, congratulations! LOL. |
Children, Children! To your rooms! Time out, 30 minutes! No audio tonight! |
Thank you Mel and AVGURU. No offense taken and no apologies needed.
blindness is much like a mother-in-law: you may not truly love her, but you can get along fine; only you'd rather didn't have to deal with her every day. In that I consider myself half lucky: mother-in-law lives 2000 miles away. So, no prob at my end.
While not wanting to overstate the rather modest social advantages of the condition, I have become over the years rather apt and fond of judging the quality of the construction/finish of equipment using the tactile experience [yes, that means fondling], as you may read in my previous rant about the hidden virtues of the X-01's exquisitely wrought and taught underbelly.
The same X-01 also produced for me the most enjoyable synesthetic images of sound and music, among all the players I have seen this far. Yet I do know that it can't be the ultimate.
Finally to all: let us go back to the music and our quest for digital audio Nirvana! [in kinly camaraderie, that is]
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"I am the originator of one of the best, most interesting and most well responded to threads going on Audiogon now. Over 375 responses and still going strong. Look up my member name and my active threads and you'll see it."
AVGURU-
Wow! You da man.
To quote Lazarus28, "shakes head, sighs." |
Kana813,
I am the originator of one of the best, most interesting and most well responded to threads going on Audiogon now. Over 375 responses and still going strong. Look up my member name and my active threads and you'll see it.
You're right...I am not the moderator of this thread nor do I wish to be so. I just felt some of your responses were inappropriate and I'm a big believer in treating people with common courtesy and respect.
Anyway, I'm off this thread now so you don't have to worry about me "butting in" on your dialogue with others.
Enjoy the Music!
AVGURU |
Avguru - you're the one who needs to lighten up.
I was a guest at the man's home who owned the Esoteric gear. I didn't go there to review his system. He invited me over to listen to music. I've heard the system three times. Each time we listened for two to three hours, does that qualify as passing? Please excuse me if I didn't take notes on every part of the system. I was too busy just enjoying the music. Funny I've never seen you post in the music forum.
I didn't know Guido is blind. He didn't seem upset by my comments, and who appointed you moderator in this thread?
Mele Kalikimaka |
Thank you AVGURU for your kind words.
What is also amusing is that my current CDP is in fact an excellent--if venerable--EAD T1000/DSP7000 Mk.3 combo unit, which in distant 1994 sat towards the top of the then young digital dungheap.
Of course, I did not choose it because it was a two-box unit, but because it sounded better than anything I could find in not-so-sunny Toronto at the time, except for its larger brother, which had been vetoed by my financially responsible better half.
In recent times, having heard the DS tristack with firewire, Teac X-01, Teac P70/D70, and a variety of single box players, including Burmester 001 and Bel Canto PL1-a, I haven't heard anything which sounded as 'right' and gave me 'palpitations' as the X-01, not even the vaunted DCS stack, which in fact failed completely to stirr my grizzling heart.
I should also like to point out that--from a purely tactile point of view--the solidity, fit and finish of the Esoteric products easily surpasses anything I have experienced/touched this far. Even the bottom plate of the unit is built, assembled and finished to the same standard as the rest of the unit. Honestly, if you turned the X-01 upside down, and forced it to sit belly-up and feet-up on the shelf, it would not look any less gorgeous. |
Kana813,
It really doesn't help anyone on this thread for you to talk about how glorious sounding a system is if you can't remember any of the vital information such as the manufacturer of the components, model number, etc. That's like someone talking about what a beautiful vacation they had and then when asked where they went their response is "I don't remember".
Guido asked you a valid question about how you heard Esoteric gear that to our knowledge is not yet avialable in the U.S. or if avaialbe on a very limited basis. First you tell him you're not familair with the specific model numbers he mentioned. Then later you say "in addition to the PO/GO combination...". I'm confused. Are you faimailir with the models in question or not?
Furthermore, your rather abrasive and presumptious comment " People who want and can afford the best know how to get it" is rather unecessary and offensive. Exaxctly what does that mean?
In the case of Guido, who by the way is a very well paid Engineering manager at IBM and is also 100% blind, a descriptive analysis of the components and sound is quite important as in some respects the feedback he receives here on A-gon serves as his "eyes and ears" and aids in his decision process.
Furthermore, there are some one box solutions on the market today that I would put up against any dac/transport system including Forsell, Meitner, Audio Aero, etc.
Your arrogance is annoying. You need to talk to your Maui partner who goes by the name of "Hawaii Kid" on A-gon. Although he has owns some of the top gear available today he still finds time to buy "mundane" one box solutions like DV 50's, Opus Audio, etc. And he is always happy to give very detailed and unbiased opinions based on his experience with "actual" product names that he can remember instead of spouting superlatives about gear he heard in passing.
Lighten up! It's only audio equipment and a hobby.
AVGURU |
Kana813: The only two-box front-end from TEAC I heard was the P70/D70 combo. I found its sound to be so close on redbook to single-box X-01 to make the apparent difference negligible. Granted, the statement must be tempered by the fact that I heard these on two different systems.
I am sure I could find a way to import the P01/D01/D01 tri-box solution from Japan or I may be able to get Teac America to special order it, but its price tag makes it quite simply out of the question. The beauty of X-01 is that it is also a very good starting point for future expansion. A fellow audiogoner from N.Y. (MGOTTLIEB) is using it now as a transport: he has augmented it with the DCS Elgar + Purcell and finds the mixed stack to be superior to a purely DCS stack.
A similar arrangement could be made with X-01 and a Zanden DAC. And of course X-01 would accept the G0 and G0S clocks. Now, if you are starting to ask yourself why on earth I do not stop talking about this and act instead, you are not the only one. . . It's the usual WAF: a rather complicated 'quantum entanglement' of sorts. |
Kana813, are these TEAC products imported in to Canada? I long ago got a P1 transport for 110 volts from Canada. Is the G0 the atomic clock that can also be used with the UX-1?
Tbg- I cant help you with Teacs distribution system in Canada. If your P1 has a clock input connection, it should work with any external clock.
Please do describe the supersistem you listen to with the Teac front-end and give us your sonic findings in detail.
Guidocorona I havent heard any of the units listed in this thread, so I cant give you an audiophile description/comparison. I didnt look at all the model numbers, but in addition to the PO/GOS, the Maui system had B&W N800s biampd w/Rowland electronics, power conditioners, lots of room treatments and a bunch of exotic cables from Japan. Ive never seen or heard any of this stuff before. On some old Redbook CDs I was familiar with, the system was totally effortless, with absolutely no hint that I was listening to a digital recording. If youre looking for the best in digital playback, I suggest you stop wasting time on these one box CDPs and start looking at separate transports and dacs. |
Kana813: Please do describe the supersistem you listen to with the Teac front-end and give us your sonic findings in detail.
TBG: There are two Teac clocks compatible with X-01, UX-1, P70/D70, and the higher components: G0, and G0S. The G0 is likely some kind of advanced crystal oscillator clock. G0S is Rubidium-based, but whether a Rubidium crystal is used as an oscillator, or nuclear decay is measured from a sample I do not know.
I am pasting below some info I posted on them on the DV50 shootout thread:
Teac Esoteric G-0 external clock generator has an accuracy of ±0.1ppm. It is said to be:
a. ten times more accurate than the DCS Verona, rated at 1ppm.
b. 30 times more accurate than the internal clock of the X-01 and X-03, which are rated at 3ppm.
c. 100 times more accurate than the internal clock of the DCS Verdi, apparently rated at 10ppm.
The list price of G-0 in Japan is relatively reasonable: equivalent to $4500.
The Rubidium-based Teac Esoteric G-0s clock generator is yet another entire kettle of fish: a staggering accuracy of ±0.05ppb(=±0.00005ppm)!! List price in Japan approx equivalent to $11000!!
Both clocks appear to be compatible with X-01 and UX-1, and will likely also work with X-03 and UX-3. They are also said to be compatible with DCS gear. |
Kana813, are these TEAC products imported in to Canada? I long ago got a P1 transport for 110 volts from Canada. Is the G0 the atomic clock that can also be used with the UX-1? |
"I might as well ask Kana813 where in the US he had the fortunate opportunity to listen to a Teac P0 player, augmented by a G0 external clock. The Teac Esoteric USA site does not list P0, D01, G0, G0S in the US catalogue because Teac America has sadly not seen it fit to import such devices."
Guidocorona- FYI- I heard the units in a $200K system here on Maui. People who want and can afford the best know how to get it. |
DJA,
I respect your choices in gear and I'm glad you're enjoying both units. I must admit I like how you are utlizing both units. The DV 50 is really, really good in multi-channel for both DVD-A and SACD. The Krell is an excellent redbook and SACD player.
If I may make a couple of music recommendations...try Ray Charles new SACD multi-channel "Genious Loves Company" as well as Eric Clapton and B.B Kings latest calaboration "Ridin With the King" on mult-channel DVD-A. Both are superb. Special mention goes to the Ray Charles disc...the orchestra arrangements are simply breath-taking.
To enjoy the BB King disc at its best use a subwoofer..the ".1" recorded bass track is excellent and should be spotlighted instead of played through your main speakers.
Regarding the Krell SACD standard, I thought it was smoother than the DV 50 on redbook but lacked the dynamics and detail of the DV 50. You may want to try a high end platform and good power cord on the DV 50 and do another AB test. You might be surpised at the results.
Oh..one another thing that you probably don't want to hear. The Esoteric UX1 and X01 are twice as good as the DV 50 on multi-channel music. Now that's a scary thought!
Enjoy the music!
AVGURU
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Guido you are right its X01, Thank you for the correction.
Sorry for the error, Its confusing. |
Guido you are right its X01, Thank you for the correction. |
The Krell SACD Standard vs. Esoteric DV-50 competition was so difficult to resolve - that I ended up purchasing both of them. The Krell SACD Standard feeds my primary two channel system; and is an absolute delight. I love what it does for SACDs and CDs - both are rendered faithfully and beautifully. I have found (after much trying) that it works extremely well with the Krell KAV280p pre-amp and tube based amplification (Antique Sound Labs Hurricane DT200s, in my case). I tried just about every two channel player I could get my hands on before making this purchase; including the much esteemed Linn Unidisk 1.1 - but found the Krell to not only be it's match, but it's better when you factor in the excellent user interface and completely flawless execution. A first class digital source that never fails to excite.
The Estoeric DV-50 is in the theater system and just plain does everything very, very well. I am underutilizing it for stereo listening actually, primarily using it as a DVD-A and SACD multichannel player. For these two duties, though - it really shines. It single-handedly elevated my otherwise mid-priced theater setup (Rotel pre-pro, 5x200w amplification and Linn speakers) into something quite a few steps above it's pedigree. The Rotel RSP-1066 happily gets out of the way in multi-channel pass-thru and the Rotel RMB-1095 gives adequate power and control over the Linn Ninka, Ekwal, Sizmik and Katan speaker array for my smallish room. I had almost given up on DVD-A as a long term format (relying on the Rotel RDV-1060 as my source), feeling like it did many things well enough, but exagerated the 'gimmicky' nature of some of the popular DVD-A mixes and had a bit of an etched top-end which irritated after a short listening session. The Estoeric DV-50 solved that problem in spades: The surround channels do what I think they are supposed to for music - provide ambiance and extension to the performance. The center channel gives rock-solid focus without narrowing the sound-stage and the main speakers do the rest.
I haven't tried the other universal player you mention - but I'm offering you my experience in the above two units: you just plain can't go wrong. For less than the price of a single Linn Unidisk 1.1 - I got one of each of these guys: and I know I'm more than twice as happy as I would have been with the Linn flagship.
If you have the luxury of a separate stereo system from your video system, you might be happier with the Krell and do something else for a surround source. If you could setup a dual-zone system you could easily use the DV-50 to serve for two rooms: it has the 5.1 outputs for the video system AND a pair of balanced (or single-ended) stereo outputs that you could easily run a long ways to another room for a killer two channel feed.
I think it is absolutely wonderful that at a fair price we can have access to such fine products. Both of these units are beautiful examples of exactly how to engineer an exceptional digital source that will please for many, many years. |
JayCToy, did you mean X-01 instead of 0X1? |
Tbg,Actually Avguru visited my place couple of weeks
ago,And heard the SonyModwright that was involved in
the shootout,because there was a question of this
being inaccurate and having a white background. All
those doubt were erased,Avguru even more realise
How much 3d, black backgound,musical,fast,and natural
sounding, and the quiteness this player have.This
player is very consistent,it did perform very well in the
three system we played .Avguru even whisper to me
that classical is so natural, and that He wants to
try to get into classical.It is because,the Sony will
do that in highly resolving musical system.
I do respect modifiers,From what I heard between the
APL,Exemplar,DV50 although they are very good players,
The SonyMod is just too much, Avguru even mentioned to
me, How balance the Sony from top to bottom.
My question is this, will the superclock of the APL
will improve the sound, my answer is Yes, will it be
enough to beat sonymod musicality? Well wait for the
Next Shootout.
Tbg I do agree with synergisity,the SonyMod I have is
very friendly, its so easy to mate with other gear.
I think its the tube Dan used, they are cryod 5687
tungsol, this is what makes this player friendly.
Avguru and I went to listen to the 0X1,this player is
very good,but the system is not coherent and not musical
enough, for me to draw conclusion.One thing I remember
the 0X1, is much smoother than the DV50,and its much
better.I am very interested to compare the Sonymod
on this unit.AVGuru is auditioning the UX1,I might
go to his house this week to compare the sony again.
The SACD on the Sony will be tested against the UX1,
As far as I know this is where the unit Shine more.
Will see.Enjoy the music, Merry Christmas to All,and
Happy Holiday. |
