And for what it's worth: Some months ago, I consulted privately with grannyring when I decided to try my (soldering)hand at making my own speaker cables and RCA interconnects. After purchasing tens of meters of Dueland 12g, 16g, and 20g, as well as host of banana plugs and rca connectors, I got to work. In the end, and after nearly every combination possible, I am thrilled with the following set up:
Dueland 12g, twisted with mesh sheathing to bare wire on both ends for speaker cables.
Dueland 20g, twisted with both a copper mesh as well s a cotton cover terminated to the KLEI Harmony connectors. I use them from SACD/DAC to the preamp, as well as from my turntable.
The 16g with my room and set up just sounded a bit too slow and constrained, when used for interconnects.I know that my results are completely subjective, but I will state that the sonics far eclipse what I had prior, which were the upper ranks from Audioquest.
Cheers, and happy listening!
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Hi @laaudionute,
Did you try to build interconnects without copper mesh shielding?
Regards,
Alex. |
Alex,
I did and was picking up a bit of hum. So I unsoldered them and wrapped them in the copper and the hum is gone, but not any of the dynamics, which I feared would happen. Just the interconnects, not the speaker cables, mind you.
It was a fun project and much easier thanI thought, especially after I made some mistakes on the first pair.
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I gave them a shot but for MY setup it was a No-Go.
I let them 'burn in' for about 12 Hrs.
The very first thing I noticed was the bass didn`t have the oomph/weight that I`m used to.
They weren`t as revealing as my old cables either and didn`t have the overall fullness of the MIT`s.
I also noticed that I had to give it more volume to reach my usual listening level, because I have a numeric display I could readily see the difference.
Not going to bother going to the 12 GA either because I sincerely doubt they`ll even get close to the MH750 Music Hose based on the characteristics/house sound of the Duelund`s
I`ve had a few cables in my system (nothing expensive mind you) but the MIT`s are something special and they are back in and sounding great !
I DID make a set of jumpers from a left over piece so all`s not lost :)
Was fun and interesting no matter the outcome.
Steve |
I’ve been following... just wondering if only a 12 hour break-in is sufficient?
System components could be a difference?
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@slaw...Maybe maybe not as to break in, but I don`t see a 200% improvement down the road with them either.
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@grannyring ... Thanks for the input. Yes...I had the Duelund 16GA configured the way you mentioned (to mid/woofer then to tweeter).
Got me a meter of the 12GA and made jumpers (bare-wired). Single run of the 16GA from the amp to tweeters. 12GA jumped from tweeter to mid/woofer.
After 2 sessions (4 hours total)...the 12GA as jumpers yielded punchier bass. Soundstage and instrument images within more layered and less homogeneous. Acoustic guitars more snappy. Image size a little larger. Better image focus and overall a little fuller sound. I do detect more HF energy though...not sure if that's a plus or minus yet. Will know when I put on some female vocals on.
Btw...I just discovered i have jumpers (bare-wire) of 16GA that I had experimented with prior the getting a full run of them. Hmmm...;)...what if I shotgunned 12GA + 16GA jumpers. Overkill? What would be the resulting gauge if I did that?
Thanks for all your help. Really appreciate it. :) |
SCM, Not enough burn in for sure, but more going on here. Also, the 16 gauge with speaker less than 95db is not a good match...,especially with long runs. Need more info.... Was it an SS amp with speakers less than 95db effecient? If so, not an ideal match. Under 8 ohm speakers? Perhaps 4 ohm? If so, not the best match for 16 gauge single runs. |
@grannyring ... I`m using a 300 Watt per Chanel SS amp.
My speakers are Revel F52`s the published specs show an efficiency rating of 87.5 db
6.5 Ohm nominal 3.5 Min @ 373hz
I was using a 6Ft length of cable run using the Duelund.
The MIT`s are
8 Ft .
My buddy has Zu Audio speakers with a 100 watt Rogue amp we`re going to try them just to see. |
I see. Thanks for the update. |
Does the tin coating on this wire melt away during soldering when making ICs?
For those of you who use bare ends for speaker cable, are you removing the tin coating with something like Scotch-Brite? It doesn’t seem like a very good idea for the signal to have to pass through the tin coating.
I’m debating making a set of speaker cables for my Magnepan 3.6Rs that are bi-wireable. How many runs and what configuration would work? The amplifier is a Classe CA-200 and the they will be 7 to 8 feet long. Would non-biwiring work better?
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The tin coating helps give it the wonderful sound. It is part of the design and a big positive. No, it does not melt off and cannot be removed. I know the notion of tin costing and suburb Sonics can seem at odds. But it could not be further from the case with this Duelund wire. |
In this wire it is your friend ✌️ |
I thought the dielectric was responsible for the sound of this wire? The tin coating is to prevent oxidation.
No, it does not melt off and cannot be removed
I'm not proposing to remove all of the tin coating, just the very end were it gets soldered.
It should be very easy to get off with Scotch-Brite, right? It should just be a very thin layer. Copper is a much better conductor than tin. If you remove the tin, the signal will travel from the copper in the wire to solder to the RCA connector instead of from the copper of the conductor, through the tin, through solder, and finally to the RCA connector. It's one less layer of a (poor) conductor that the signal has to pass through. Have you compared cables with and without the tin removed? |
The tin plating is part of the sound and Duelund did not use it to ward off corrosion which is no longer an issue with today’s better wire coating.....including oil impregnated cotton. So it is there for the tone. It is a fine stranded copper wire and I would not try to remove the tin, I don’t you can anyway. It is part of the wire.
So yes the wire and cables sound better with the tin. You can buy stranded Duelund copper wire in cotton without the tin. It does not sound as beautiful. |
After reading all the reviews, I decided to buy a bunch and redo my whole system in these, after 15 hours ..
I just tried the 16 in my system along with 20 to the woofer and had the same issue scm, the bass and low end on these wires are nice.
The mids and voices are gone, the sense of realism is gone.
The highs are still there but not as good.
Then I added the 16 as IC to my system, and it sounded even worse.
These are compared to generic cables from partsexpress
They also require the volume to be turned up.
I don't know if i can have them for another 80 hours, and have to listen to them for a few months to see if they work out, when they are so far from what I was looking for. |
You need to give it a good 200 hrs to really make a judgment, the last to come back is the mids and highs.
I think the 20 on woofers is way to thin, I use the 3.0 silver foil on my woofer and 2.0 silver foil to the tweeter.
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@ketchup If you remove the tin, the signal will travel from the copper in the wire to solder to the RCA connector instead of from the copper of the conductor, through the tin, through solder, and finally to the RCA connector. Solder is mostly tin. Just solder your joints and don't worry about it. |
Sorry, i mean 12 for woofer.
Alright, i'll plug it back in and let it run for a two hundre dhours and report back, that 8-10 days of non stop playback. |
Only takes 75-100 hours. Sounds like something else is wrong to be frank based on the severity of your outlying comments. |
My 12GA took over 100 hours before they sounded good.
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Yep it takes about 100 hours. 12 gauge a tad longer and 16 gauge you are all but there after 75 hours. But they never sound as bad as I read in his statement... never. Especially the ICs made with the 16 gauge. Wonder how they were built? Soldered professionally etc..... Did he shield them? If so, that will dull them. Something is amiss. This conductor does not go from awful and unlistenable to the best I have ever heard during break in. Just not what this wire does. It may be the connectors? Soldering job? How were they constructed? Need to know more about the system also.
In the end no wire or piece of gear will please everyone for a myriad of good reasons. But I have not heard of the Duelund stranded and tinned wire in cotton being so bad it was unlistenable and worse than cheap zip cord in essence. The Aphile world is always full of surprises! |
So I found out the issue, before I only had my speaker wires and one pair of IC done.
The duelund were revealing enough to show the weakness in my other wires, since then i've replaced everything with the duelund and I am impressed. They have defiantly moved my system forward, similar but not as significant as when I replaced all the caps in my speakers. |
Thanks for the update. Your crossover caps can take 300 hours to settle in depending on the type. Large paper in oil/wax types can take up to 500 hours and the road is bumpy! Great you are improving your rig with DIY skills! Great satisfaction and sonic gain for reasonable money. Well done! |
Hi to all, recently did buy 20 meters of dca16ga from PCX and I did a pair of RCA interconnect and is true what you tell us about kindness of this cable.
Very organic, realistic, open, from midle to up, from bottom is a bit weak yet, may be rolling need.
I just wondering if any of you have used this DCA to patch signal amp.
It's possible?
My best.
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What is the difference between digital IC and analog IC. I was hoping to use these ICs Between CD Transport from Audio lab to the DAC on Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 as Digital IC. Any experience? Any advise? |
I was wondering what would be best for speakers of 94 dbm 8 ft runs, dca16 shotgunned or single dca12?
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@luisma31 I recently installed Duelund speaker cables on my Omega Alnico full range speakers.
I did dual 16ga to each leg. So 4 total “dual 16ga” tinned copper Duelund cables.
I’ve been super impressed with them even after 20hrs. Letting them settle in to 100hrs before i fully compare to my Audio Sensibility Statement speaker cables. |
As Im considering trying this cable and several people comment the gauges vs amp power and speaker sensitivity can someone recommend what should one use with a low powered SET, 8w Coincident Dynamo and 91db speakers?
The runs are less than 3m/9ft per channel.
Thanks!
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Typically if running a low powered SET amplifier and high efficiency speakers, the 16 gauge would be preferred. Especially if your runs are under 10 feet.
In general the sonic difference between the two is the 12 gauge will give you a little more body and fullness.
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