Jtgofish: The Intuitive Design website is certainly short on details. Dale doesn't do a "spiel" at all; in fact, his taciturn nature is something I've found rather frustrating. I did NOT purchase these speakers based on reviewing his website, believe me. I listened to them, TWICE, and they sounded even better in my system than they did at the store. If anything, Dale has tended toward being very highly critical of any potential flaw, and pointing it out, as I mentioned in my review of that loudspeaker: "The midbass punch is just as excellent as that of the Paradigms, and just a tad richer without being soft or fuzzy. I had had concerns about a two way system going so low, but the midrange doesnt suffer at all. Dale Pitcher had mentioned some potential Doppler issues, potentially introducing distortion when the 7 carbon pulp driver has greater excursion at higher volumes. I have simply NOT been able to hear this, ever. I think that they are actually Doppler NON-issues." Please read my Audiogon review of the Intuitive Design Summit Loudspeakers if you want to get an excruciatingly detailed account of just how great these things sound. I don't expect anyone to believe my review, but hopefully it might cause some people to listen to these speakers for themselves. As for product literature, be it printed brochures or website material, I am extremely skeptical. This is because of an experience that I had years ago, looking at a great sounding product brochure about a line of speakers and some electronics. The brochure was gorgeous and, as I recall, it had graphs, and things that looked like scientific measurements, lots of very scientific-sounding explanations of the design and the unique radiation pattern, yada yada yada. I figured the flagship would sound phenomenal, and went to the company HQ to listen. Holy mackerel, what an overpriced, gosh-awful stinker! (In my opinion only, maybe you'd love them...). Now THAT company had made up a spiel! I am and will remain a firm proponent of people ACTUALLY LISTENING FOR THEMSELVES before buying loudspeakers. That's what I did for the Summits, and THEN pulled the trigger. I agree that Dale's website may not be the most glamorous, but I would strongly encourage you and anyone else to at least LISTEN to these prior to dropping a big wad of cash on some other "mainstream" speaker. As I said in the poem: "for then you should find my words to be true
but til you listen, you wont have a clue" |
I forgot to mention audiophysics virgo. |
I'll say based on my humble experience that Celestion Kingston which looks like a Sonus Faber Guarnieri Hommage but made in a Alpha Cristal(synthetic Granite)enclosure and Dynaudio Crafft(professional serie ancestor of Dynaudio25SE)can certainly fill the requirements of big sound. |
Have we mentioned every stand mounted monitor on the market yet? the nature of this beast. :) |
Mdhoover,great review.Are the mid/woofers in these the Scanspeak 7 inch?Friends used these in Proac 2.5 copies.
If so I can imagine the sound.They do produce a very full sounding bass and a smooth and rich sounding midrange with good imaging.Proac stopped making these when lots of people started copying them and selling them for much less money.
I know other guys using them purely as woofers.
I am more into valves and efficient fast dynamic sounding speakers so these sound a bit slow and smeared to me,but can understand their appeal as a great allround sound.
JT |
Jtgofish:
The answer to your first question is "no."
As for speed, these things are LIGHTNING fast. When I said they have the most incredible combination of high end detail and smoothness (both) that I'd ever heard in ANY loudspeaker irrespective of price, bar none, that's EXACTLY what I meant.
These are phenomenally, incredibly smooth but they are absolutely, positively, unequivocally, NOT smeared. No, no, no, no.....NO! Quite the opposite (I'm not angry, just trying to hammer home a point here...). I UNDERSTAND that those two things almost NEVER go together, but I swear to you, with this speaker they do. To give you an idea, I thought that these made my Sennheiser HD600's sound....kinda BAD! (To be fair, that was with a Ramsey SHA-1 headphone amp, which is certainly a great value and has gobs of power, but probably falls, um....short...of being hi fi, at least by Audiogon member standards). I ended up getting Stax Lambda Pro Signature Pro Earspeakers with an SRM T1 headphone amplifier/"energizer," and even that set-up doesn't sound as good (to me) as the Summits. The Stax Lambda Signatures MAY have SLIGHTLY more detail, but I'm not even sure about that.
Dale Pitcher is on the cutting edge of the cutting edge, period, AND he's cutting in the RIGHT DIRECTION. In my opinion, he's an under-recognized genius, with a great ear and the practical application skills to match his theoretical brilliance. He doesn't really advertise or toot his own horn, yet has never had to declare bankruptcy in 25 years. He SOLD Essence prior to starting Intuitive Design.
If phenomenal, lightning fast, detailed, smooth, accurate, phase coherent, dynamic speakers are what you're looking for, then you really owe it to yourself to listen to these. These are his "entry level" speaker, with the next models up selling for ~$38,000 (Pingoras), then ~65,000 (most recent version of Denalis). |
Mdhoover,fair enough,you have convinced me these Intuitive Design speakers must be something special.I don't know if I will ever get to hear a pair in Australia though[imagine the shipping costs].
As far as speed and smoothness goes I tend to agree that the two rarely come together.I have Edgar midrange horns amongst other speakers and these are one of the very few exceptions that I have heard.People claim stats are fast but I'm yet to really hear it.
JT |
JT,
I love Mdhoovers enthusiasm. I have not heard the Summits yet, but I did own a pair of Essence Super Gems for about 12 years. They were an unbelievable speaker in 1990 and I have heard from many that the Summits are many times better.
I live in Minnesota near the Magnaplaner factory. I remember back in the 1990s, Magnapan actually ran an ad saying that they had the 2nd best sound at the Chicago CES.
Guess who won best sound?
Essence Speakers.
I can't wait to get a pair of summits myself. If they are even 15% better thant the Super Gems, they would be worth it. |
"I have not heard the Summits yet, but I did own a pair of Essence Super Gems for about 12 years. They were an unbelievable speaker in 1990 and I have heard from many that the Summits are many times better."
-Eandj2000 So....WHY THE HECK AREN'T SOME OF THESE "many" PEOPLE POSTING to the forums?????? I feel so, so, so.........ALONE! |
"So....WHY THE HECK AREN'T SOME OF THESE "many" PEOPLE POSTING to the forums?????? I feel so, so, so.........ALONE!"
I'm not quite sure, but I understand how you feel.
I should also point out for full disclosure that I'm hoping to become a full fledge dealer of Intuitive Design speakers.
This is totally based on my enjoyment on the Super Gems all of those years. I proactively contacted Intuitive to inquire about a dealership. |
What if I told you you could get a compact 3-way bookshelf that will blow you mind to Jello, and it'll wont even cost you half of the price your looking at for other speakers. And we're talking new out the box, +/- 1.5 db for under 1K per pair.
Check it out.
cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/114...
cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/114...
I've auditioned these speakers myself and through everything I could at them but the kitchen sink...and they were mind numbing!!! |
cdwallace,
If you are going to post about a giant killer speaker, at least make sure the link is correct, otherwise your post is useless.........
Oz |
Ozz - Please excuse the link error. It didn't seem to be a problem for others. Sorry to keep you waiting in such anticipation.
www.roarkdouglas.com, loudspeaker tab. |
Well that tells me exactly "zero" about these speakers.
"Coming Fall 2006"
"UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Ready 09/2006"
Looks like they are not ready for prime time just yet.....
Oz |
Oz....did you click on the picture before you exited out? Guess not! Click on the pic under the loudspeaker tab and the printable information will come up.
Theres a little more information you forgot to investigation before counting them out! But hey, Jordan didn't make the varsity team his 1st time out either. ;)
If its still too complicated, check out the system for D_Edwards on the gon. The graphs and pics are also on there.
"Well that tells me exactly "zero" about these speakers"
"Looks like they are not ready for prime time just yet"
You must be the type to throw the instruction away before you start the project. Look a little closer. Its all there! |
When I click on the picture, this is what I get......
http://www.roarkdouglas.com/images/IZT4v2.bmp
No specs, no dimensions, no weight, no driver details, no design details..........not even information on how to buy the damn things even if I wanted to......
Yep, like I said. Not ready for prime time.
Oz
Oz |
Ok...Ozz, now that you've accomplished the instruction part, lets start adding 2+2 to get 4.
" No Specs"
In case you missed it, there are graphs on the flyer! From top left working counterclockwise, we have the "wave flow" graph (another version of the frequency response graph), the impedence graph (self explanitory...I hope), and another, more typically seen frequency response graph. No, things aren't spelled out to what you may be accustomed to, but they are nevertheless specs. You do know how to read these specs, right Ozz?
"No dimensions, no weight, no driver details, no design details"
Ozz...I think you got me on this one, but it was done this way for many purposes. Heres one that comes to mind...so people, probably like yourself, won't attempt to clone it. Even if you had all those things, theres a high probability you won't get it right. But the obvious does come to mind...its a flyer not an autobiography.
"not even information on how to buy the damn things even if I wanted to"
Once again Ozz, you didn't read. See the part at the bottom that says "Buy you ITZ-4 factory direct on Ebay or visit our website." In case it didn't don upon you, you were on the site when you found the flyer. Since you didn't read that, you probably didn't read the other tab from the home page that said "contact us". This point is where we, again, put 2 and 2 together. Wanna ITZ-4, contact the site and ask for one!
The site may not be complete, hence the "under construction" posted throughout (another 2+2 moment...quick thinking cap Ozz). However, contrary to what you think, everything you need is there. And of course, have a question...contact us tab. :0 Since you've aqquired such interest and intrigue, check periodically to see if the site is up to "prime time" status...and keep us posted, will you?
OK...I make it any simpler, I'm gonna have to take away your tube owners license. ;) |
PMC DB1+, harbeths 30s, Dyns focus series |
Sonus Faber Guarneri Hommage.. I just put a pair in my system and they are magic!
Little lacking on bottom end, but what you do get is accurate and defined.
By far the best speaker I have heard in my system..replaced Hales Signature 2's ( which were not slouches).
IMHO, one of the best if not the best small monitor in the world. |
Cdwallace,
4 days and counting. Still no reply from your guys at Roark.
Oz |
Ozzy62,
Sorry about your email, but it must be lost;
Roark Douglas builds the IZT4's which are outstanding for under $1000/pr.
They were designed for multichannel music applications and like a subwoofer added for best performance.
Their main purpose is to offer music lovers with multichannel systems an affordable reference level speaker that simply elevates an ordinary surround system into a superior music system, like yours.
Let me fill in some blanks.
The speakers weigh 19lbs each
They are 12x7.5x10 (HWD)with 1.5" thich front baffle and internal bracing.
They handle 80 watts continuous 175 peak, they are 6ohm +/- .8 ohms
They have an Aluminum 5" woofer
2.25" soft dome mid and 1" neo tweeter.
you will note the impulse response shows the kind of time alignment that Vandersteen and Theil call phase coherent and after 300 hz the acoustic phase is +/- 20 degrees to 16khz.
you will note the very flat frequency response (the lines demarque 3dB not 10dB variances like in the reviews) and the fast, clean and uniform spectral decay, which I know may mean little to you, but for a sub $1000 speaker what you see some may call exceptional. Distortion at 90dB 1m is >.25% 100hz to 16khz. The speaker is a sealed box which is tuned to 87 hz fb.
Would I say it plays bigger than life?, not really. not by itself. But for the money there are few speakers that offer this sound quality in the range that these speakers cover and when set up in surround with a subwoofer, the system as seen in my profile has outperformed 2 channel systems from ACI, ZU,DALI Helicon, ATC Concept 1, Sptech Ref. Proac Response and Tablette, totem Forests, Vandersteen 2's & 3 sigs. and the VSR 4jr's.
BTW the 2nd group of speaker systems listed are not in my opinion, they are in the opinion of owners and potential customers of those brands. If you doubt that its true you'll have to take it up with them.
PS: If you ask me nicely, I will gladly build a 5-7.2 system for you. Roark Douglas is a consulting firm, the IZT4's is for us too show potential clients that we are capable of complete design solutions. We offer oem amplifier solutions, system sales and design assistance to end users, technical training and marketing strategy solutions.
Building speakers is for fun. |
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