Great review on the New Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Coax 10 Open Baffle Speakers
https://www.dagogo.com/pureaudioproject-trio15-coax10-open-baffle-speakers-review/
Do larger planar speakers produce more accurate sound?
Planar speakers generate sound pressure via vibrating membrane panels. The excursion of the membrane x radiating area= sound pressure. This would mean that for a given sound level, membranes have smaller excursion in larger planar speakers than in smaller ones. Does this mean that larger speakers will produce more accurate sound?
I am not talking about the obvious benefits of the larger speakers in terms of low frequency production, so let's not get into that.
69 responses Add your response
@goofyfoot How do you like your ASR? Resolution? How often do you have to replace the batteries? |
chungjh, The ASR Emitter 2 Exclusive is what I have and I've never regretted purchasing it. Recently, I had some issues with the output relays but that seems to be resolved. I've replaced the acid gel batteries once since I bought it in 2011. The soundstage is very wide. It actually matches up with my Quad 2905's perfectly. Though admittedly, the Quad's are a pain to deal with. The ASR detail is more than I've ever heard with any other system. It is a very musical combination. Non fatiguing. Pitch black background and well balanced. I also own the smaller ASR phono amp. The designer/manufacturer is remarkable. He'll stay on the phone or will email with you for as long as you need. He's very attentive. Finding the output relay issue required some time and he always got back to me immediately. Anyway, it's a great piece and I'd recommend it to anyone but if your stereo requirements are more modest, then the smaller Emitter 1 might be a better fit. |
My Quad’s, only my ASR. I’ve heard the Martin Logan CLX’s with I believe an Ayre amp and preamp. I’ve heard the 63’s and 57’s with an NAD and possibly Mark Levinson’s, hard to remember. I’m hoping to hear the 57’s with a vintage Marantz tube amp, not the 8b’s but I wish. I’m planning on ordering a pair of Magnepan LRS’s for when my Quad’s are with the repair tech. When I bought my 2905’s, it was right after AIG opened their factory in China. The adhesive they used for the louvre over top of the perforated sheet was too sparse. So that adhesive joint is more prone to breaking and so far I’ve had to replace eight panels between both speakers. AIG panels are now using more adhesive at those joints and they’re spraying the circuit boards with an additional protective layer to minimize arcing so hope for the best. |
Worth considering where it pertains to the Quad 57’s; https://www.quad-musik.de/index.php/en/products/electrostatics/esl57-qa |
That video title mirrors my sentiments having owned the Magnepan .7s for a couple years in various setups. With the caveat of careful placement and quality electronics, I’m doubtful if there is any better speaker value (new that is). Even those familiar with the flagship Maggies owe it to themselves to audition these panels. The dynamic capability of the .7s can actually put many box speakers to shame. How many times have you read that said about a Magnepan? I drive mine with the Benchmark LA4 and AHB2. The amp has zero trouble driving them to high SPLs in my ~3000 cu ft room. Their “musicality” is excellent too. Has to be the best budget panel speaker considering the ease of drive and dynamics. |
Larger usually sound nicer (not saying that’s the same as ’accurate’). They’re not so soon stressed to their limits to produce a certain SPL, they operate more ’relaxed’. Larger size is able to create a wonderful soundstage, almost 3D, and with height involved. On my maggies, with eyes closed, subtle sounds like a cymbal or a shaker, can seem to originate top left, or half height right, very funny. It can be imagination, but when playing the same song again, it again is the same experience. You didn’t want to talk about base but of course that’s a great part of sounding nice, and of ’accuracy’. However, it’s not just size, there’s also the crossover filter, with magnetostas the magnets, with electrostats the electronics, the build quility, and ... important ... the moving foil. You’ll seldom see a planar the size of a door ... at some point it becomes troublesome to keep the foil tight and moving as a whole without ripples. ’Accurate’ need not translate to ’sounds nice’. Some people love equipment that’s measurably less accurate.(think vinyl or tube amplifiers). |
Much has to do with design the larger the diaphragm. The better the bass Soundlabs is the best although big with their excellent autoformers their panel has different size segments for high frequencies,mids and bass you truly need at least the bid model $15 k + to get the speed and realism of a true full range stat. I have owned Everything out there pretty much . Apogee ribbons with sub bass in the mini grands was the fastest dynamic panel I ever had , for a true Electrostst The Big sound labs are great if you have the room they are not as power hungry as I thought they are excellent , the. MBL Omni directional speakers are the only ones I prefer more and don’t need as much space., even their 126 monitors with good subs Giant killer setup !! |
I've read and heard folks say that they believe the Levinson stacked Quad 57's with the ribbon tweeters to be better sounding than Soundlabs. I cannot make that claim myself, I just wanted to put that out there. My conversations in the past regarding Soundlabs were relevant to the overall build quality of their speakers. I cannot understand why Quad hasn't seen Soundlabs as a guiding example in how to build an electrostatic speaker correctly. A friend of mine is currently building the Levinson 57 stacks, so I wait with anticipation to hear them once they're finished. |
The Levinson HQD system was something I heard MANY years ago, so I cannot say how it would compare with other systems. It was more than stacked Quad 57s; it had a 24" Hartley woofer and Kelly ribbon tweeters. At the time, I thought it sounded okay, but not decidedly better than anything else I heard. More recently, I've heard stacked Quads assembled by MyEmia that incorporate bespoke tube amps that take advantage of the high impedance of the electrostatic panels by not utilizing the kind of output transformers one would normally need to lower the output impedance of the amp to match conventional drivers; the stacked Quads delivered surprising volume and bass impact for a speaker otherwise known for their deficiencies in these qualities. The big Soundlabs are indeed very nice sounding speakers, but I would not pick them over the better horn systems I've heard (custom made speakers). I would also like to hear the new Beveridge hybrid electrostatic/dynamic systems; I heard the originals and like it except for the overblown bass response. |
Some do have that sort of nasal coloration, some do not. I am not a fan of most of the current production compression driver systems (e.g., Klipsch, JBL), but systems made with some very special drivers from the like of Western Electric, International Projector Company, Yoshimura Laboratories, G.I.P. Laboratories, Goto, ALE, and Cogen, for example, coupled with the right horn can sound great and not sound like megaphones. It is the bane of serious horn fans that the most popular and common horn systems, like those from Klipsch, JBL and Altec, do have that tendency if one does not work to reduce that problem and select the right components to complement these drivers. It is also VERY unfortunate that the best of these drivers can be extremely expensive. I have a fried seriously looking at a single $14,000 driver which he would buy on-line in a heartbeat if the seller would do something as simple as take a dc resistance measurement. |
My first Magnepan experience was with the MMGW, the small wall-mounted speaker that’s maybe 38”x10”. A friend had them driven by a triode tube amp of maybe 40-50 watts. No bass to speak of, I think about 100hz is it. But the sound! It just came out of the air. A violin was simply a violin, a piano, etc. So I ordered a pair and found a nice little subwoofer to go with them. At some point a familiar, favorite piece of music played and it just grabbed me emotionally like never before. So that’s what they can do, large or small. That mid-range where so much of music (and life) resides is what they do best. I still have them in my living room, where my wife was thrilled they were so inconspicuous (off-white covers) and didn’t need floor space. I have 1.7s in my listening room with 200 watts and life is good. Sure, when I was auditioning them I was drawn to another setup in another room. Wow, what realism. Oh, $50k+ Wilsons. Very nice, but I kept the $1,400 Maggie 1.7s. |
I disagree with some comments that full range ribbon planars need volume to shine. This is a matter of the amp providing ample current. I have the Apogee Duetta II Signatures (about to be completely updated by Music Technology). They sound excellent at very low volumes as well. The whole frequency range is full and very engaging just as it is at louder volumes. I’m using a beast BAT VK-600 solid state amp with bat pack for extra joules of energy when needed (coupled with a BAT VK-5i tube preamp). Don’t get me wrong the large panels such as the Full Range and Diva are also very special speakers, but they have added challenges where they tend to have a dark sound to them if not optimally matched with the proper amplification and cabling. Also, they are more sensitive to the listening space and require a large room to truly shine. While the Duetta Signatures go down to around 28 Hz (stock) the FR and The Diva go to the lower 20s. These large panels also need multiple amps and with that comes the added expense and additional layer of complexity trying to get amp synergy. I like the flexibility and relatively forgiving nature of the Duetta Sigs. One thing I will say is like all Apogees they are very sensitive when it comes to speaker cables. I’ve always used the Symos Jason Bloom recommended and have been extremely happy with them since ‘88. |