what do you mean it loses its magic, does the bass response go down? I have two richard gray power company's that work wonders that I don't use anymore. These are like a giant capacitor, anytime there is a lack of power (like when a big bass note hits) these give an extra bit of juice to the system. THEY ARE AWESOME, they make an incredible difference in your system, especially if you like it loud. They also serve as line conditioners and surge protection. |
got to ask the same question as Vmpsbk: what do YOU mean when you say "it loses its magic"?
Also remember that AC power is cleaner @ night when everyone/most people retire to bed. Businesses are closed, people are not using appliances, etc, etc & there is MUCH less hash on the AC. Systems generally sound better w/ cleaner AC power.
Did your system lose its magic when you were listening to it in the middle of the day?
Power conditioning is NOT a panacea. It's a double-edged sword. Most power conditioners in the market constipate the system. Trying out which one suits your system could be time consuming at best.
There is a LOT of stuff on pwr conditioning & like Psychicanimal said yesterday in one other thread "you must seach the Jedi archives, young Padwan". There'll be more on this subject than you can shake a stick at! |
Thanks for your responses, Vmpsbk & Bombaywalla. By losing its magic, I mean the soundstage shrinks; espeically the rear ambience. When its working well, and on a good recording, you can easily locate any echos in the recording from the rear. On some CDs with the recorded effects (e.g. the end of the last track on Dido's first CD), you can even hear the effect twirling around the listening room. When the system goes off, you lose all this. Also, the scale of the sound is just not as 'big' and it just sounds duller and you end up cranking up the volume to try to get it going but its just not as good as when its on song.
I do not notice any real change in the balance of the sound; say if there is any change in the bass etc.
The strange thing is that there does not appear to be any pattern as to the timing of this in a 24 hour cycle. If anything, it tends to go off for days at a time. I might add that I live in an apartment.
I have been reading up on the Shunyata Hydra units & was wondering whether I should give these a try. Thanks again for any ideas you might have. |
I have had the same experience and can have great music for days and then degraded sound quality for a coulpe of days. I started a thread about this maybe 2-3 months ago and you can search for it under "Misc" or under my username. There were lots of good responses and suggestions. |
I formerly worked for a public power company. Audio equipment is designed for 120w/60cycle. The power coming from your outlets does deviate (at times) from that. Also, there is "crud" (RF, etc.). Pretend your system is a main frame computer that needs clean power. Act accordingly. Contrary to Bombaywalla, I have never heard a system sound worse because of a power conditioner. Be forewarned, clean power is clean power and there is a lot of snake oil being sold in the name of "super clean". The power coming to the outlet is traveling through 15 cent a foot Romex. I believe every system would benefit from a BASIC conditioner that has enough capacity for the system. Anything beyond that is placebo. |
JW,
Any recommendations on any basic conditioners that have worked for you?
Thanks!
bill |
When I added the Audio Magic mini stealth AC purifier my sound became much cleaner and no downside. Audio Magic has continued to upgrade their purifiers. The PowerWing is another fine example of a great AC purifier. Just two to consider with excellent reviews and good dollar values. My sound is much more consistant any time of day. |
alot of people like the PS audio stuff. |
Mr. Bill, Tripp Lite is a company that has been around for a long time (like decades). They don't make product for the "audio" market; they just make good line conditioners. Put Tripp Lite into Google. There are a lot of electronic/computer equipment outlets that carry the brand. They make different models for different requirements. Make sure the one you pick has the capacity you need for your system (outlets, output watts) and smile at the price. You won't be able to brag to your audio friends, but you will have a conditioner that will do the trick. |
The Shunyata Hydra makes a BIG DIFFERENCE in my system, especially with my JC-1 monoblocks! They don't even sound like the same amps with this unit!
These amps MUST have power conditioning to bring out their full potential.
Big, Big, improvement over running them straight into the AC outlet! |
How old are the components in your system? If they are new, the on and off best performance could be break-in. Otherwise, you might monitor the voltage of your liine and see if low voltage goes along with what you hear.
The best conditioners can give a greater quiet to the music allowing you to hear ambience, but this would be an all the time phenomenon.
I have tried 40 plus different units with cost being no concern. In fact once I had six different units. I can recommend only three, but I know full well that your experience may be different.
From best and most expensive, I would recommend the entire IsoClean system as reviewed in 6moons. Next I would recommend the Sound Application Reference Line Stage, and finally the Walker Velocitor. Other units detract more than they add. |
Tbg,
You seem to have done some researsh on the subject. Any thoughts on Audio Magic or Running Springs? Thanks |
I am not of much help. I have not heard the Audio Magic in my home and had never heard of the Running Spring. |
the running spring audio haley is awesome. i feel it truly is non-coloring and non-power-limiting. priced reasonable at just over $1k in my opinion.
i live in an 11 story apartment building in new york city. i was told by my tweeters that power out of my walls is very polluted (hssssss). |
What do most of you think of the AC power regeneration products on the market? I was skeptical given the cost but a while back I won an audiophile aps. At first I wasn't that impressed since it made the highs sound harsh in my tube system. Once I let it break in it has really been awesome. |
I presently use a PS Audio P300 for source gear and have enjoyed it. Now I'm going to try out a Richard Gray 400 Pro and Running Springs Audio Haley to compare. The knock on the P300 has been that it is taking 1800 watts and squeezing it to 300 watts max (albeit cleanly regenerated) for all components plugged into it. We'll see how the alternative models that claim to provide 1800 watts provide. |
What is "an audiophile aps"? How did you win such a thing? |
Audiophile APS is a Canadian company. Checkout their website. I won it from audiovideorevolution.com I am very happy with it and would recommend it highly. |
Solentgreen a good power conditioner can improve the sound but I would try before you buy if possible. I have a Richard Gray 400s and it has made an improvement in my sound. Some of you might think I am crazy for saying this and don't take this the wrong way but are you sure it's not you? What I mean buy this is that I am also familiar with the "magic on, magic off' phenomenon you describe with my own system and have come to the conclusion that it is most often my own state of mind at the time that determines how much I enjoy my music more so than any inconsistencies in my power or equipment. Sometimes I am just in the right mood and can listen to disc after disc all day or all night long and the experience is simply magical and euphoric, other times it is just ok and I soon get bored, before AND after using the power conditioner. I experience this with all of my other hobbies as well. Even when visiting Hi Fi stores that I regular frequent and hearing the same systems in excess of $100,000.00 I notice the same thing, sometimes its good and other times pure magic. Also the longer a person listens to the same system and components they often tend to get used to the sound no matter how great it is and tend to seek upgrades and improvements to further increase their enjoyment. Just something to think about. |
Thanks guys for all your responses.
Tomyran, I will check out your previous thread, thanks.
I have tried a few conditioners, a few of them inexpensive basic filters & a Powerwedge. These makes the sound quieter but has a downside on dynamics & presence. Since then, I have moved on with better cables & is now using a home made mains distribution block (no filters, just a distribution unit made of thick aluminion & iron sheets) which improves the sound, making it richer, with more 'bounce' & enhancing dynamics. Now I find the Powerwedge & other filters do not improve the sound anymore.
However, my system still sounds better on some days than othyers. And Arnold h, I am sure it is not my personal mood that is causing this. There are distinct differences to the sound; and I am not talking about how I react to the music or anything like that. The bigges difference as I said is the soundstage; the width, height & rear ambience. On the good days, the soundstage is so wide that its like you are sitting in a small concert hall or auditorium; the speakers completely disappear & sound comes not only from the front stage, but also from the side with distinct echos and ambience from behind the listening position. Then, the musical aspects of the sound is also great, and you just put on CDs after CDs, and even music which you do not particularly like sound interesting & enjoyable. On a less good day, the soundstage shrinks significantly, and the rear ambience is much more diffuse. But the musicical aspect of the system is reasonably good. On the really bad days, the rear effect does not exist at all and then, the music also sound off & not enjoyable anymore.
And no, its not running in; I have had these components for quite some time.
To Audio girl, can you try & describe the differences the Shunyata Hydra makes to your system. I have heard some great things about these units & am interested to know. Unfortunately, it is difficult where I live (Hong Kong) to get decent demonstrations & a home loan is out of the question.
Many thanks again. |
Hello Solentgreen,
The Shunyata Hydra makes my system, particularly the JC-1's sound more coherent, better focused, smoother, more open, blacker background, and they have better inner detail.
After getting used to hearing them with the Hydra, its impossible for me to bear listening to them without it!
With the JC-1's plugged straight into the AC outlets they sound grayer, hazier, courser, flatter, and less coherent.
Michael Fremer also commented in his review of the JC-1's, in Stereophile, about the Hydra making quite an improvement.
ALL of my components benefit from the Hydra, but the amps show the widest margin of improvement with it.
Best of luck in your quest. |
Hooked up my DNA-0.5 Rev A Gold and McCormack ALD-1 preamp to the Hydra 2 and I can honestly say it sounded as if I ha upgraded either or both components! The bass had more impact and definition, background was quieter, decay of the notes was much more noticeable. The Hydra 2 definitely worked for my system and is here to stay permanently. |
