Yes they do. I’m not here to advocate for any particular brand but I’ve heard a lot and they do matter. High Fidelity reveal cables, Kubala Sosna Elation and Clarity Cable Natural. I’m having a listening session where all of them is doing a great job. I’ve had cables that were cheaper in my system but a nicely priced cable that matches your system is a must. I’m not here to argue what I’m not hearing because I have a pretty good ear. I’m enjoying these three brands today and each is presenting the music differently but very nicely. Those who say cables don’t matter. Get your ears checked. I have a system that’s worth about 30 to 35k retail. Now all of these brands are above 1k and up but they really are performing! What are your thoughts.
“Drawing on more than 18 years of manufacturing experience, Zavfino has developed a remarkable new technique for twisting stranded wire tightly around a central solid-core conductor. An electrical phenomenon is commonly known as the “skin effect” occurs when electrons move through any solid core conductor. Higher frequencies travel along the outside (the skin) of the conductor faster than midrange and lower echelon frequencies. This results in smeared PRaT, muddled instrumental timbres, and an unnatural sound. Zavfino’s new H-Wound™ manufacturing technique negates the skin effect.”
>>>>>That’s rarher odd. You know, since electrons don’t actually move through solid core conductors or any conductor. They are, for all practical purposes, stationary. Having said that, just going on the photos of the Graphene Gold Rush Tonearm cables, I want some.
I see that my approach of choosing cables based on looks is gaining some traction.
Some signal will come from the beginning to the end, one way or another. Electrons moving along, or just rotating. Who cares, as long as it looks good. It is a cable, after all.
Cables are probably the simplest part of the entire audio chain. You can see them as a pipe through which current travels. The real work is done by the equipment that processes this current not the carrier.
Now compare that to what is happening inside even the simplest loudspeaker crossover. Or any drive unit as it frantically attempts to resist breakup under load. Or the cabinet as it deals with increasing resonances with volume. Or as it interacts with its surroundings. Or a hundred and one other things.
Yes, cables have it easy. They live extremely long lives and hardly ever break sweat.
I was really asking and not having any opinion at that time. I do not have it now, either, but will slowly start thinking about it. Maybe I come up with something meaningful (pro or contra your statement), although do not hold your breath for that.
I laugh every time i watch this. I would get into the physics of a cable, but that wouldn't be any fun - instead us lurkers read, laugh, and eat popcorn.
The OP stated in his intro that a nicely priced cable that matches one’s system is a must.
Why must the price of a cable ever need to factor into deciding whether the cable matches one’s system? And what’s the meaning of a cable “matching” one’s system?
No, that’s not really what the OP is saying. What he’s saying is for you little people with inexpensive systems you can use inexpensive cables and be fine, but for the big boys with expensive systems expensive cables will be better than those inexpensive cables the little people can afford.
There’s plenty of snake oil in the cable business, and plenty of good value up until a quality threshold is reached. The law of diminishing returns comes into play here. Take speaker cables for example. You don’t need to spend hundreds of dollars per foot to realize excellent performance. I’ve been using Monster Standard 12AWG cable in a bi-amp setup with a pair of vintage NAD integrated amplifiers (3025i and 3225PE), and I’m very happy with the results. These cables didn’t cost a fortune, heck, they only cost about $100 not including the Monster banana plugs that cost another $60. The results are there, and I’m happy. I bet most other people would be too.
Sometimes nicely priced can be 200 or 2000 it depends on what you are personally willing to do. It’s up to you. Find your sound and get there. At the end of the day it’s up to you to get the best sound you like out your system. Some do it cheaper than others. Some do it with generic monoprice. Some do it in the high end. Do,what works for you with your equipment in your listening enviorment.
It’s funny how we get in these debates with people who have and never will hear your system in your listening enviorment. Very few people in the USA have my speaker. I have one of about 10 pair in the whole country at this time. In addition very few people own my integrated KR Audio va900 or my Dac Resonessence Mirus Pro. I think everybody reading this thread needs to know that your equipment and cabling combinations will perform differently from what they might do in some else’s listening enviorment. Room dimensions. Carpet vs hardwood floors. Speaker placement all play a part. So does recording quality. Trial and error is important for you in your system so enjoy your equipment and cables and don’t worry about what others say. Most of the time they will never hear your kit. Find you a knowledgeable sales guy who actually loves music. It’s a big help. Thank you Bob Spence at affirm Audio. Gary at Audio emotion in Scotland. Rick Schultz at high fidelity cables. Scott at Advanced Home theater systems for assisting me with demos and arriving at my system!
So true. System and room acoustics differ necessarily. Yet the debates of refutation abound. But remember what elizabeth reminds us of regarding the price recommendation for the newbie purchasers: one should consider spending on cables 10% of the total cost of the system. Audiophiles are exempt from this advice—lol.
By way of example, I’m running a full loom of IC cables from Teo Audio between only an Oppo DVD player, a Teo Audio Liquid Pre passive and a pair of ATC SCM20-2 active monitors. System components (including power accessories and PC’s) cost me ~$13,000. The IC cables cost ~$2,500. So my IC cable cost exceeds 16% of total system costs.
It's always down to personal choice how much you want to spend. Experience has taught me that if I had to build a system from scratch I'd be looking at 75% on loudspeakers, 10% on CD player, 10% on amplification and 5% absolute tops on cables/ancillaries.
Even If I fancied something more exotic, we're talking vinyl and valves (tubes), I'd still be looking at 50% on loudspeakers and 25% on a turntable and 20% on the amp.
It'd certainly make assembling a great $1000 system interesting. On the other hand it's worth remembering that $1000 can be a big psychological hurdle to overcome for anyone who doesn't see themself as an audiophile.
cd318 It’d certainly make assembling a great $1000 system interesting. On the other hand it’s worth remembering that $1000 can be a big psychological hurdle to overcome for anyone who doesn’t see themself as an audiophile.
>>>>Maybe for you, but not for me. My system cost $100 tops, including Grado SR-80 headphones. Why visit your psychological theories on everyone else?
Long time ago, I was told that budget should be divided into 50% for speakers and 50% for everything else. I do not recall if cables were even mentioned. I think they were not on most radar screens at that time. Maybe cables became this fashionable topic when decadence took over.
I think $1000 as a psychological barrier for non-audiophiles may be too high. Bose figured that psychology out and, so far, they keep their systems way under $1000.
Read this in my news feed today. Curious as to whether there is (perhaps) something here? What do you make of it?.....
"The researchers hypothesized that the type of magnetic particle found in these brain regions is a compound called magnetite (Fe3O4), based on previous studies that found this particle in human brains. It's possible, however, that other kinds of magnetic particles exist in the brain besides magnetite, Gilder noted."
It might have been from the 1960s although I read it later. It stuck and I still, just as a habit, calculate that way when I see some system. I doubt that anyone, even then, really bought things just because of that rule.
Well I have gradually spent more and more on my speakers as I caged them out. I started with def tech bi polar. Went to b&w cm9. Then to Sonus faber Liuto. Then to Vienna acoustics Beethoven’s baby grand se. Then I had the revel studio 2 and my final speaker the gato FM6. This has been over the span of the last 11 years. I’ve had my current speaker for almost 3 years and it’s staying for a long time. I have enjoyed the journey. I have gradually went up to a better speaker each time. I think the revel studio 2 on the Gato FM6 are both great final speakers. I spent a little bit more each time and I have gotten better results from going up. Cable wise I have settled on the ones I have based on how my particular equipments reacts to it. I feel like my cables have helped me get the best out my system. I mentioned price initially because most people spend a certain portion on cables based on what they paid for their system. I was willing to go above that suggestion amount if it delivered sonically and my system has for me. Ultimately if the mix of cables and equipment gets you to your audio nirvana then do it. Don’t listen to folks who will never hear your system.
One more thing. I don’t mention price to woo or impress anyone. I know people who spent 5 times what I did. Some have great sounding systems. Some don’t despite the money they spent. Price plays a part only if you know how to match the right things together and picking the right speaker for your tastes. You can spend a lot and have a crappy sound if you don’t know what you doing
There is a huge difference between "knowing" and "striving to understand." When we cross over to "knowing," we get locked into a belief system and become argumentative in defending it.
If the "knowing" includes "You get what you pay for" and "Everything makes a difference," then we become the target of con artists preying on those belief systems.
That's not to discount "Looks cool" as a reason for purchase.
Well here we go! Everything in Audio is not a con. It’s a business. People develop a product the sell it for a profit and it’s up to you if you want to pay for it. Yes, I KNOW EVERYTHING MAKES A DIFFERENCE. Some differences you like some you will not. It’s up for each individual to decide. If it helps you ultimately to get the sound you seek then maybe it’s worth it to you. Some people Mark THIER gear up to insane prices and you have to decide if you wanna pay it. I get that you can put great sound together at cheaper prices. However, I do my research before I make my purchases I see what technology and R&D is used to make the product. I usually get a demo of what I’m thinking of purchasing. Usually i get an in home demo if possible. I follow this method even with cabling. I try to not to buy sight unseen or heard. A lot of people in this hobby do. I try not to. You wouldn’t spend money on a car if you didn’t test drive it so why should you spend the same or more in Audio without testing it in your home. I’ve had some dealers get turned off by me wanting to do this. But I just go somewhere else if they do. So that way you KNOW if it works in your listening enviorment. I also took the liberty to go out and listen to the insanely priced gear to see what I heard that was different. I thought the insanely priced stuff when matched and set up properly could be spell binding. The Raidho speakers plus Solutions electronics did this. However you could get a nice house for what that gear costs. Which is crazy so you get the best you can afford and get a sound you like and roll with it. If folks don’t let you demo then don’t go there. It’s too costly at times to make a mistake with gear at certain levels. There are those who play in the low end. There are those who spend more and there are the guys who go all out assault regardless of price. Decide what you want try to hear it in your listening enviorment that way you know! Looks cool is great but if the Sonics are not there it don’t matter!
Huh? Rules?! There are no rules in high end audio. The streets in high end audio city don’t stop at the edge of town. They keep going. No more pencils, no more books, no more teacher’s dirty looks!! It happens all the time, people follow the wrong....you know...
The problem with a $1000 system is finding budget speakers which do fast, deep bass. Bose have always been clever at how they handle the extremes, and many regard them as them as the high end in not only prestige terms but also sonically.
In fact my neighbour has a Bose system and she seems happy with it. It would be a waste of time to discuss sound quality with her as she regards us audiophiles as a little strange (if not exactly mad).
I think that's the main reason why really good loudspeakers can cost a lot of money. My current speakers have a FR of 35Hz-20kHz ±4dB and that's good enough for the occasional Jazz, Rock or Reggae if required. For many years I didn't even bother with low bass being happy to settle for bookshelf models which had a reasonably vivid midrange and not too much of a sting up top.
In fact the old adage about a good midrange making you forget what you might be missing is one that I found to be true when I listened mostly to Pop and Vocal.
However nowadays I do want to hear what Peter Hook or Ringo Starr were doing in the studio. Any system with little below 60 Hz would just feel too limiting now matter how refined.
That is why I mentioned Bose in reference to non-audiophiles and $1000 limit. As much as I may dislike their products, I have not met a Bose owner who is dissatisfied with it. It will not satisfy any "audiophile", but it is on the safe side of that $1000 for the rest of the people. If you asked your neighbor about sound quality, she would easily say that her Bose sounds just fine.
Bose is not high end. Never was, never will be. Come on, people! Most of the drivers are firing toward the back wall. Cut me some slack, Jack. If you were a non audiophile I suppose you could like the looks of Bose and maybe fall for their particular marketing gobbledegook. Ditto the Bose radio. Give me a break.
I am currently comparing a couple of different Roon endpoint devices in my system. One of them outputs USB and the other one (the Ambre by Metrum) can output either bnc, AES/EBU, or I2S directly to my Metrum DAC, but not USB. Metrum provided an I2S board that replaces the USB input board in my DAC so their endpoint can supply an I2S connection directly to their DAC. While I am comparing the two devices, I wanted to keep the USB board in the DAC (and not install the new I2S board) so I could easily switch between the two devices, since the one device will only output USB.
From the Metrum endpoint to the DAC I tried a fairly high quality bnc cable and it sounded pretty good. I had heard the AES/EBU input may sound better (although the I2S input is supposed to ultimately be the best). I purchased a $12 AES/EBU 110 ohm cable from Amazon and it blows away the bnc connection.....a $12 cable! So, while I believe cables do matter (to some extent), what they are connected to matters much more IMO.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
