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How else can the signal travel? Has anyone considered Quantum Teleportation?
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Chicken wire? Huh? If you’re referring to me, I don’t use cables myself but have no problem with anyone who does. Lighten up, it’s only a hobby. 😀
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prof, good catch. It appears he’s here to brag about the cost of his system and magnificent hearing.
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nonoise
There was even a link that showed where one studio went with Nordost cables and were impressed with the improvement. But all of that can be discounted as some kind of quid pro quo, couldn't it?
>>>>I suppose it could be some kind of quid pro quo. But that seems more like a conclusion drawn by a determined naysayer or pseudo skeptic. If you could find a CD of Indian classical music on the Moment! label that uses audiophile cables in the recording process you would hear the advantage of high end cables in the studio. But these things can be difficult to prove. Someone naysayer could argue, Oh, it’s not the cables, it’s the engineering. Oh, please! That’s why these cable debates have been going on unabated for what, 40 years?
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Uh. It could be almost anyone since it’s true. At least for any yutz with ears. |
calvinj OP
Anyway quantum teleportation is goofy weirdo talk! Not bragging on the cost of my system. I have friends that bought system 4 or 5 times the cost of mine. I only mentioned cost to be relative for the readers. Anyway no need to brag on what I paid for my system. I think for me it’s not a lot.
>>>Actually, Calvin, it’s not goofy weirdo talk since I don’t actually use cables or power cords in my system. Lighten up, the Quantum Teleportation talk is a joke. Are you trying to settle the Cable Debate all by yourself?
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Calvin, I’m fairly certain that’s the worst spelling of my name I’ve ever seen. Did you catch your fingers in a meat grinder? Are you high? Lol
It’s awful decent if you to hope everyone is happy, one assumes even the ones who have crap cables and/or can’t hear as good as you. What a guy! |
There seems to be a pretty big chasm between pro audio and high end audio. That’s the way things are. The Twain shall never meet.
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Sorry, that’s not really what I meant by pro audio. Besides all the old pros are overly compressing the life out of CDs just like the young dudes so the hell with em. Times, they’ve changed. Those were the good old days. 😛
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Dunlavy is the poster boy for a sadly mistaken old dude who clung to his ancient beliefs of physics and reality to the bitter end in the face of a mountain of evidence. You can find quite a few old school guys around who are at least two paradigm shifts behind the power curve of reality. Whether it’s cables, cable directionality, aftermarket fuses, power cords, power cord directionality or whatever you can always find some manufacturers somewhere who stubbornly refuse to enter the 21st century. Wake up and smell the coffee ☕️ dude!
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shadorne
Mountain of BS with absolutely no evidence, just anecodotal stuff. I have never seen an AES paper proving sound differences of various cables and won’t ever see one because it is all equipment and component performance related.
>>>>Thanks for bringing up AES. They’re filled to the brim with old fogeys just like Dunlavey. They are vehemently anti-audiophile.
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bstbomber
When choosing cables.
Where would one go and how would you compare one to another?
How big of a difference in sound is there from Hundred dollar cables to ten Grand in cables?
Is there that huge of a difference?
>>>Those are excellent questions! If there were easy answers we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
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bac2vinyl
Power cables can not make a difference…Can not convince me that the power cables that came with my Marantz MM8077 or my Parasound A21 are mediocre. Why would engineers design a product that its only purpose in life is to produce good sound with cheap power cords?
>>>>>You ask, Why would engineer design a product that’s only purpose in life is to produce good sound with cheap power cords? Well, let’s look at the options, shall we?
1. They don’t care about how their product sounds.
2. They don’t believe in power cords or fuses.
3. They can’t hear the difference.
4. They CAN hear the difference but figure, the hell with it.
5. The cost of a good power cord raises the cost of the product too much.
6. They never heard of aftermarket power cords. They aren’t audiophiles, they’re engineers.
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If a pseudo skeptic posted the OP he would be called a troll. But Calvin is kind of the opposite. He’s the Anti Troll.
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Principal Pseudo Skeptic and Cable Puller 🤨
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You’ll pardon me for saying so, but there seems to be a very fine line between satire, sarcasm and pseudo skepticism on this thread recently. Would it be asking too much to make more liberal use of emojis to ensure everyone understands if you’re serious or sarcastic or whatever? |
Huh? Some people believe in marbles? Have you lost your marbles? |
Newcomers would be much better off if they shut up unless spoken to. Just my opinion. Five years of lurking can be substituted for one year of posting. |
Ah, the timeless 1s and 0s argument against digital cables. Brilliant!
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Oh, goodie! Another subject glupson will attempt to facilitate.
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That’s a keen observation, prof. Obviously premium gas won’t help generally if the compression ratio is average but it will help if compression ratio is high, as in high performance. Kind of like cables, high end cables are for high end systems. Average cables or what we often refer to as crap cables are for pro audio. 😛
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Excerpt from the Waldrep blog on demos of cables at audio shows,
“I deliberately avoided naming the salesperson who demonstrated the “benefits” of expensive — very expensive — power cords and the name of his company out of respect for the hosts. His demo produced audible/measurable increases in the amplitude of identical music selections. A result that is impossible according to the laws of physics. Electrical engineers and those with even a casual knowledge of how electrical circuits and power supplies work know that a heavy twisted cable worth thousands of dollars cannot — and should not — increase the plus and minus voltages needed by the various circuits in the equipment in question.”
>>>>I gave up reading immediately after the phrases, “a result that is impossible according to the laws of physics,” electrical engineers and those with casual knowledge...” not to mention, “I deliberately avoided naming the salesperson and the name of his company out of respect...” are indicative of some pseudo skeptic somewhere with an axe to grind. Darn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
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I don’t recall anyone anywhere ever claiming cables do not (rpt not) provide/produce/contain/measure some distortion and noise. Hel-loo! Apparent even AES is aware of the power of the Strawman argument. 🙄
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Actually,, you don't have to go wireless to eliminate cables.. Like I did. And never looked back. |
By no coincidence 50% is exactly the probability the Cable is inserted in the wrong direction.
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cd318
50% of the time is no better than guesswork.
>>>>Eggs ackly! If folks made sure the cables were in the right direction they wouldn’t be guessing, so often. Of course, there are other secrets to success, too. If a 🐸 had wings he wouldn’t bump his 🍑 so much.
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I have the Carbon HDMI Cable and am pretty sure a primary reason why the new breed of Audioquest HDMI cables are so darn good is because they’re all controlled for directionality. The increasing silver content in the connectors as one moves up the line probably doesn’t hurt.
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Somebody (fill in the blank) is channeling Travis Bickle. You talkin to me?
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The only problem I have with double blind tests is that the same ineptitude oft involved in sighted tests can potentially be found in double blind tests.
Not to mention it’s the double blind test someone somewhere will do sometime in the future, not a double blind test they did or will do. Heaven forbid they lift a finger. It’s the old walkers vs talkers type situation.
Not to mention negative results of double blinds tests signify nothing. You, know, because of all the things that can go awry.
Not to mention the old audiophile axiom - “It’s what they choose to believe.”
Case solved. |
Hey, professor, we’re not talking about drugs here. We’re talking about audio. Hel-loo! What is it you don’t understand about things that can change the outcome of tests that are outside the control of person or persons performing the test? Don’t you know someone who is all thumbs? Besides, there is absolutely no (rpt no) similarity between the medical or pharmaceutical industries and audio, so who knows where you guys came up with placebo effect and blind testing connections to drugs, as if it proves anything, which it doesn’t.
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prof, you sure talk a lot about blind testing and test protocols and how thorough testing protocols will minimize errors and so forth but have you conducted cables tests yourself or even know anyone who meets your criteria for testing - whatever they actually are - who has? Surely you must realize the word *thorough* means different things to different people. And minimizing errors. Those are what we call loosely goosey terms. Pseudo skeptics chant, if you do this, if you do that, if you ...... Heaven forbid they ever test anything themselves. This is all just hand waving. And who exactly is the lucky guy who is elected to determine what the test protocols are? You? AES? Some famous pseudo skeptic? Lol
Unless someone is on board the cable directionality train, the break in train and the re-settle in train I don’t care what they say. Not to mention the boatload of other variables many audiophiles are blissfully unaware or dismiss. That’s why I insist negative results mean nothing.
So, unless I see some new information or something other than hand waving I consider the skeptics’ argument completely stalled out and ineffective. |
Why do some people with low end systems, who cannot easily distinguish various instruments or voices, but with shallow pockets, ever get involved so deeply in this type thread, which actually is a high end audio thread? Doesn’t make sense. It can only lead to disaster. 🤠 |
Lizzie, I’m not the one all hot and bothered. I enjoy chit chatting with prof. Enjoy the ride. Don’t get all wrapped around the axle. If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.
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Apparently all I have to do to wake up mapman is simply utter the phrase pseudo skeptic. It’s kind of like magic, to put a positive spin on it. |
I am fond of prof’s oft longish posts mainly because they tend to enunciate the skeptic/pseudo skeptic’s philosophy/mission statement very well. In order for a real debate to take place there must be a line drawn very clearly in the sand so everyone knows where the two sides stand. Thus, folks like prof and by extension Al, a fervent skeptical pontificator himself of no small measure, must be free to express and/or support skeptical philosophy. Otherwise, it would be just your humble scribe flapping his gums.
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mapman, no disrespect but have you really been pretending to be an engineer ever since you joined Audiogon? I like the way you jump right into a discussion after being away/asleep for a few weeks with a simple +1. That takes a lot of engineering skill. 😛 |
The skeptics capable of enunciating and verbalizing the skeptic’s philosophy seem to have a handful of supporters, but just an observation - those supporters don’t seem to have a position of their own, or if they do they keep it to themselves. I doubt they understand the argument. We call these supporters nodders. When they’re not nodding off they’re nodding. And what do they have in common, by their own words? They have trouble hearing. Hmmmmmm... it appears we should probably add a new word our list of talker, walker and sitter. Nodder. |
Oh, geez! Glupson joined the thread with his usual aplomb and savior faire. That’s not particularly good news for the pseudo skeptics and undecideds in terms of debate skills. We already have at least two master debaters here and he’s no master debater.
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I hate to be the one to tell you but you already hit bottom.
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No. And I didn’t fly transports for years and my hearing is fine.
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amg56
@geoffkait So I do now walk with bottom dwellers, in forever treading circles?
>>>>>I have a sneaking suspicion you just answered your own question. 😛 |
prof
1. Many blind/double blind tests have been run using claimed "golden eared audiophiles," including audio reviewers, and with high end systems of all manner, and the claims of "easily audible differences" often did not survive these tests.
>>>>Yeah, sure. Prove it. It sounds suspiciously like one of them pseudo skeptic old wives tales. No offense.
I’ll even help you out. Just say, I can’t remember where I saw them but I’m pretty sure I saw them somewhere in some high end publication.
😀 |
maplegrovemusic
New rule for cable threads : One post is only allowed per thread . State your peace and move on :^)
Yeah, right. 😳
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ganainm wrote,
“And the reason the burden of proof is not onthe sceptics is because of 150 years of Electrical Theory and Engineering not to mention the huge majority of actual unbiased blinded testing. If that stuff means nothing to you, well there really isn’t a discussion to be had.”
>>>>>Huge majority of actual unbiased blinding (sic) testing? Name one.
ganainm then wrote,
“And if one CAN offer repeatable, verifiable evidence of the Highly Unlikely in signal transmission, well, as I tell my friends who are fervent believers in ESP or ghosts, or UFO’s or homeopathy, great, bring it on I would truly love to have a solid paradigm stood on it’s head. I WANT to believe in magic, really I do.”
>>>>Typical beginner pseudo skeptic mistake. Accusing the other side of believing in UFOs, ghosts, etc. As if pseudo skeptics are not crazy or deluded. 😛
ganainm then wrote,
“That seems to be the last of what I have to offer this thread, thanks for the many well intentioned thoughtful and funny posters of all mind sets. Shame about the other types. Good night and joy be with you all.”
>>>>>That’s all ya got? Oh, well, b-bye!
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kosst_amojan
I think cables make a difference, but I think beyond a point it’s more about stoking the users ego, vanity, and delusions than achieving higher quality audio. If you NEED a $10,000 interconnect cable to get what you’re looking for, to ADD the color you’re seeking (or your purely opinionated lack of), I think you should be reevaluating your choices of components.
>>>>Earth to Costco - nobody uses $10,000 interconnects. Well, maybe one or two. Anyone can come up with some ridiculous example. By the way, Is is stoking the ego or stroking the ego? I gather from your posts you’re a stroker.
Let the witch hunt continue! |
By the way, the reason I implied belief in UFOs is not a logical argument for pseudo skeptics to use is because, well, speaking frankly, there is no proof that UFOs don’t exist. I realize it sounds cool to say oh, that guy probably believes in UFOs if he believes in expensive cables. Yuk, yuk! That’s why it’s not a real argument. It’s a phoney argument. But, you know how people are, they believe things because that’s what they choose to believe. People who don’t believe in UFOs don’t have any real scientific basis, or any kind of basis, for that particular belief other than that’s what they choose to believe. At one time I worked a few blocks from Project Bluebook, the US Air Force office that studied UFOs and UFO sightings. I was also a few blocks away from where the live or dead aliens were taken from Roswell for who knows what. 👽 But I’ve said too much.
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You are one sick puppy dog. 🐶 Besides, you obviously read my posts. Otherwise, your panties wouldn’t get all twisted up. Hel-loo! My advice - lay off the dope. |
