Directional speaker cables - switching direction

My wife tells me to turn down my music but does not mind her's at the same level so go figure.

just make sure it should and will sound different and it will. if you do contrary, it won't.
there certainly things that will sound different believe it or not as well.
12-09-14: Czarivey

Ain't that the truth!

To think of all the money I wasted about 8 years ago buying several pairs of NOS early 1960s white label Amperex PQ 6922 and 7308 tubes. Not to mention Siemens early 1960s all grey plate CCa and E188CC tubes. It was all in my head the differences that I heard from the stock 6922 Sovtek tubes that came with the preamp. Funny thing though, I still remember the preamp sounding like a solid state preamp with the stock Sovtek tubes installed.

Measurable test results showing the differences in perceived sound of vintage 1960s 6922/E88CC, and 7308/E188CC Amperex, Siemens, and Telefunken tubes vs. current production EH or Sovtek tubes? Well....
.

just make sure it should and will sound different and it will. if you do contrary, it won't.
there certainly things that will sound different believe it or not as well.

It really depends on the individual, hard and fast rules about gender and hearing acuity are not truly "hard and fast". For instance, no female in my family or any girlfriend I have had can hear with the acuity that I can....and I'm male. I've met nobody who has been so annoyed by TV or fluorescent light squeal as I have, to the point of having to leave some stores.

But I have to say in blind tests I have not been able to tell which direction cables are hooked up when I have someone else do the switching (or non-switching).

Audiophiles should read about placebo effect, expectation bias, but of course most audiophiles will be the first to reject such notions, proven as they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimenter%27s_bias

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/the-power-of-suggestion-what-we-expect-influences-our-behavior-for-better-or-worse.html

In many ways, this belief always reminded me of audio:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing

Keep in mind that this is coming from an audio guy who has been in it for his entire life since 12 years old and who owns a warehouse full of audio gear including hundreds of sets of high end cables. In other words, I'm a big believer in small differences making a big difference. But I've also watched many folks fool themselves and make the wrong pick time and time again, when they swore in advance that they could identify something, when I am the one to make the changes (or not) in what they are listening to.

Hi Geoffkait, my wife has proven many times that she does hear better than me, her ears are more sensative to high frequencys, during most auditions of any new equipment, doing a/b testing, just when I thought my decision was done, I would go back to what she said in the very beginning of the testing, as it turns out, the one she picked is the winner, and then I'm like Damn, she is always right!, last time I checked my hearing at the doctor's, there was nothing wrong, yes, I can go with women hear better than men, absolutely.

Is it really true that wives hear better than their better halves? Or is that an old wives tale?

;-)

well, well, just yesterday, after setting my system back up friday night, and re- breaking in my speaker cables and speaker cable jumpers that are state of the art, I could hear a small difference in my right speaker compaired to the left, now friday night I was drinking heavy, celebration of 2 years and 8 months of dealing with my amp came to a wonderful close, so hell yea, I am going to drink!, back to yesterday, I was sober, after hearing a difference in the sound, I walked up to both speakers and evaluated the connection's, whoa and behold, only one jumper on the right channel, the negative was turned the wrong direction, instead of the signal going from bottom post to top, it was backwards, shut down everything, flipped the Tara Labs Omega Jumper correctly, bam, the wife says, what did you do now, I said why, she said that the sound now had fuller vocals and way more detail!, that said, over a year ago, we tested all the jumpers at the same time going the other direction, when we did that, I remember the wife thought then that something blew up because the sound was hugely poor, a much more difference then just one jumper out of place., cheers.

Jea48

Sorry if that is not your position. I have to go by what you just posted here.

Jea48

I have proved it as it is a true fact, this burn in thing that is. I hear the difference, but for folks like you who think we folks are hearing things we want to hear, I now have absolute proof.
12-04-14: Grannyring

Grannyring,

LOL, folks like me huh, I suggest you check the archives and read some of my posts here on Agon regarding cable burn-in and cable directionality.
Jim

Grannyring - what happens if you reverse you cables?

If a cable is reversed when there isn't an audiophile around to know about it, does it really matter? Is this significant enough to recognize a change without knowledge of said change? I can easily tell my receiver from my tube amplifier, but if a gnome ran off with the sort kones under my CD player I would never know unless I noticed the physical loss of height.

Jea48

I have proved it as it is a true fact, this burn in thing that is. I hear the difference, but for folks like you who think we folks are hearing things we want to hear, I now have absolute proof.

My tinnitus is something I live with and the upper frequencies in my system can set it off bad if I am not careful with system synergy, cabling etc. My reference silver cables set off my tinnitus in a big way at first and over time it has dissappaited. Burn in changed and mellowed the cables. No, my tinnitus did not somehow get used to the cable. Anyone with tinnitus knows it is set off by sounds etc...and no amount of time with a problem volume or frequency will cause the tinnitus to go away. It simply worsens unfortunately.

That is proof. However, I doubt unbelievers will believe even when presented with a multitude of proof stories as your minds are made up.
Goodness I wish I could actually trick myself into hearing things that are not really happening. I would hear my wife say things I only dream of! I would hear silence when I go to bed instead of my ringing tinnitus. Seems I can only fool myself into hearing things when it come to audio wire. I am not capable of it in any other life situation. Oh well.

Yes and thanks, Jea, I see how that could have been misleading out of context. In an earlier thread that I initiated titled "directional cable- I don't get it" I questioned it in some detail. Even though I don't get it I am not knowledgeable enough to completely dismiss the possibility but it will not be an issue, however, in my future considerations for choosing or installing cable.

Jea, it can't be proven as far as I know and I'm interested to know how you could possibly have construed anything I've said to have been in support of the directionality or cable burn-in concepts. Please go back and read the discussion; I think it's pretty obvious that I clearly question the validity of cable direction and its influence on sound quality.
12-04-14: Broadstone

Broadstone,

Thanks for the clarification. I apparently misunderstood this paragraph of your earlier post.

Because I'm not secure in my conclusion that the direction issue is an imaginary one, I'm going to reinstall a pair of Silver Sonic cables that I had used in another setup in the past. These have no arrows imprinted on them and I know which direction the break-in occurred because there are spades on one end and bananas on the other and have thousands of hours on them. If the "settling in" process will be starting over, that's OK; these new speakers will take awhile also.
12-04-14: Broadstone

.

Jea, it can't be proven as far as I know and I'm interested to know how you could possibly have construed anything I've said to have been in support of the directionality or cable burn-in concepts. Please go back and read the discussion; I think it's pretty obvious that I clearly question the validity of cable direction and its influence on sound quality.

When I started this thread I inadvertently pressed the "submit now" button before I completed my thought so I'll try to finish it now with the added benefit of these comments. Although I'm skeptical of the theory of directionality in a conductor, even for DC current, I'll discuss it as if I accept the idea. By no stretch do I mean to be critical of those who argue the validity of cable directionality but I think sometimes we go so far into the quest that we start to invent things that we feel are standing in the way of perfection. Because the Straightwire cables were removed from my system before I noticed the arrows, I have no idea if they had been installed properly. Whether or not they had been, though, if there is validity to the directionality theory there is also the question of break-in direction and how permanent that would be in the event that I would try to reuse them. BTW, I like the idea of avoiding Zombies and appreciate the warning.

Because I'm not secure in my conclusion that the direction issue is an imaginary one, I'm going to reinstall a pair of Silver Sonic cables that I had used in another setup in the past. These have no arrows imprinted on them and I know which direction the break-in occurred because there are spades on one end and bananas on the other and have thousands of hours on them. If the "settling in" process will be starting over, that's OK; these new speakers will take awhile also.

All of this is coming up because I just changed speakers from the Martin Logan Odysseys to ML Ethos. My system otherwise is Shanling CD 100 and Peachtree Audio Nova as preamp and Peachtree 220 amp.

Timrhu wrote,

"I truly envy those who have enough time in their lives to sit and critically listen to their cables and then swap the direction and do it again. And to ensure they heard what they think they heard, do it all again over and over."

What's it take, about 60 seconds? Now, compare that to 30 years of slaving on the system trying to get it sound good.

I truly envy those who have enough time in their lives to sit and critically listen to their cables and then swap the direction and do it again. And to ensure they heard what they think they heard, do it all again over and over.

Using cables attached in the wrong direction opens the door to chaos...once on that path you could be doomed...is it worth it? NO NO NO...However, one thing you can try is to erase the little arrows and anything saying "speaker" or "amp" on the cables, shuffle the cables around blindly, and plug 'em in. Stand back and duck for cover as the entire neighborhood could explode in one of those zombie-esque nightmare scenarios...good luck.

We may not know the mechanism or just not be willing to consider that the change isn't the gear. How do we explain changes in the way we perceive the sound when nothing in our gear has changed, at least nothing we can control?

If my gear wasn't in a heavy entertainment cabinet making access to the back of the amplifier difficult I would probably do some swapping, but considering it takes an effort to squeeze in a critical listening time with two small kids, it is unlikely to happen.

I have had more than one experience listening where things just didn't sound right on a scale that I am positive is more significant than reversing my symmetrical cables could be. It is really hard to identify real differences when any change is expected to be within the normal range of the system sounding great or not so great. I find, for example, that I perceive a better sound most f the time in the evening when the sun s ting down. Is it related to the power grid or is my mind just in a better place that time of day? Impossible to know for sure.

Switching direction is easy, fun and free, Why not. Or You may want to check out "Audio Myths Workshop" at YouTube.

While I'm a big believer in cabling, I'm a bigger believer in cable settling, which can take a long time regardless of the directionality of the wire.

If you haven't used the wire for a couple of years, you will be essentially settling a new cable and should be able to hook it up in any direction and still need a few hundred hours of constant signal being passed through it to fully stabilize the cable.

If you find this a little too much to swallow then I sure as heck wouldn't worry about directionality as it's far less significant than cable settling.

Yep clean, back, fourth, listen, clean, back, fourth, listen etc for several certain days touching each season and each portion of 24 hours.
keep truckin and dream will come true -- you'll hear things different!

Thanks, Jim.

One more possible extraneous variable I would keep in mind, adding to my earlier list, is the equipment being in unequal states of warmup during the different parts of the comparison.

Or the possibility that even if the system is shut down briefly enough to avoid a significant change in warmup conditions while the cable directions are being changed, that just the fact that power has been cycled may somehow affect the amplifier or other components. Why might that be? I don't know, but the possibility seems to me to be no more unlikely than the possibility that changing the direction of a symmetrically designed cable would affect the sound.

As I see it there's no substitute for going back and forth multiple times during the assessment, before reaching (and/or promulgating) any conclusions, rather than just flipping once.

Best regards,
-- Al

And then flip them back and forth at least two and preferably three or more times, not only to verify that your perceptions are consistent, but that the perceived difference (if any) is not the result of an extraneous variable (for example, changes in contact integrity, changes in AC line voltage or noise conditions, changes in room temperature or humidity, etc).

Hi Al,

As for contact integrity I would suggest cleaning the contacts before swapping the cables end for end and then listening for a while to get used to any differences in sound from the system. This should establish a common base line for the test. Then flip the cables end for end. Listen to the same music that listened to before flipping the cables.
Room environment should not change in just a couple of hours or so, of the same day, for the listening test.
Jim

Many believe that direction should not matter since we're dealing with AC current (charge flows in both directions). It might be a little bit more complicated than that, since energy is delivered only in one direction by the electromagnetic field on the outside of the cable (Poynting Field). I just don't know enough to question sanity or honesty of cable designer while I don't see any reason not to use it in recommended direction.

One way to find out for sure, flip your 10 AWG Blue Jeans Cables end for end and listen for any difference.

And then flip them back and forth at least two and preferably three or more times, not only to verify that your perceptions are consistent, but that the perceived difference (if any) is not the result of an extraneous variable (for example, changes in contact integrity, changes in AC line voltage or noise conditions, changes in room temperature or humidity, etc). Re humidity, see the post by Georgelofi dated 6-17-14 in this thread.

IMO, the less explicable a perceived difference is, the more thorough the assessment needs to be, before concluding that the difference has been attributed to the right thing.

Brf makes a good point, btw, that many shielded cables, especially interconnects, are designed asymmetrically and can certainly be expected to be directional. In those cases the end at which the shield is connected should generally be connected to the component which drives the cable.

Regards,
-- Al

I can't imagine a scenario where the break-in would matter or how direction would matter in a simple cable design such as basic monster cable or my 10 AWG Blue Jeans Cables.
Mceljo

One way to find out for sure, flip your 10 AWG Blue Jeans Cables end for end and listen for any difference. Post back your results.

I think the configuration of any shielding has potential to be directional, but this seems like it should be more of an interconnect issue as most speaker cables are not shielded, right? Maybe the geometry of the speaker cable is such that it isn't identical in both directions in the same way that tread on directional tires is different. Like you, I can't imagine a scenario where the break-in would matter or how direction would matter in a simple cable design such as basic monster cable or my 10 AWG Blue Jeans Cables.

Some cables are designed to go in one direction due to their cable construction. I had an IC that had the shield attached to the ground at the source end and open at the other end.

To end the debate, just insert the cables both ways and keep the one that sounds the best.

YES - The arrows point to the speakers