Devore or Harbeths to replace my ESL63s?

Andrew one of the Revolutions best features is its wide sweet spot. In my easily as as good asthe Harbeths. As mentioned in an old Sterophile review of a now improved 'passive' version. (try to get the active version)
'
Salmi's goal was to design a loudspeaker that was less room-dependent than ordinary speakers are. Careful attention was paid to the origin of standing waves in small rooms, with the idea of minimizing the generation of standing waves. He also sought a wide listening sweet spot that was void of early reflections.'

do try to hear them before committing yourself they really are brilliant (although as I've said before you cannot go to wrong with the Harbeths.)

@Andreweast.. The D30R is VERY different from the D25/D28. I had the D25 and there was a persistent lower treble upper midrange brightness that I could never get rid of.. The D30R with the ribbon and carbon fibre woofer is a totally different animal.. I think you should at least take a good long listen..

go and listen

Ive learn that you cannot go with opinion

I recently upgraded from PSB Imagine T2 to Harbeth SLH5 Plus and couldn't be happier with the choice, it's easily the best money I've spent on audio gear.

I'm currently driving them with a tubed Amp, Rogue Cronus Magnum.

I'm pretty fortunate to have a Harbeth dealer close by, so I got to spend a couple hours with them before buying.

Andrew, I was talking about Bob at Amherst Audio.

I have heard the Proac 30 and 40R's and they are the best Proac's I've ever heard. I still went with the Vandy Treo's as they do everything a bit better. Even the bass on the Vandy's when driven properly is astounding. It's the carbon fiber midrange that he makes that makes them so coherent and fast. They catch every little detail. From the list you are showing I personally like the 30 or 40R best. You have two totally different sounds in Proac vs Harbeth. Most Proac dealers in the states that I've been to have both lines so I've heard them side by side many times. I agree with Erik 100%...

Not surprised in the least with the Harbeths over the PSB's...

Fwiw I had a pair of the Harbeth SHL5 prior to the D30R.. Ultimately I found the Harbeths a bit boring.. Everything sounded good.. Even bad recordings, they seemed to homogenize everything.. Can't speak to the newest "plus" version though.

Well I will listen to the Proacs eventually, along with the Kef, the Janszen, and the Gradients if its possible to find a pair in the UK.

As for now, I just bought a pair of M30.1 ex-demo for a good price. This means I can effectively have a long home demo, then over a longer stretch of time listen to the others on my list.

The difficulty will be when the Janszen distributor gets back to me. I'd love to take up his offer of a home demo, but I don't want to waste his time if I feel married to the M30.1.

My Harbeth dealer also carries Rogue Audio and I he was singing their praises when I went in. The Stereo 100 seems very appetising. It's a shame they are a lot more expensive in the UK, as they seem a bargain in the US, but they are still not outrageous if they are as good as the reviews say. I'm keen to hear these properly soon.

My plan now is to take my time deciding whether the ESL 63s are definitely going, with the M30.1 as their direct competitor.

Congrats on getting the Harbeths , wonderful speakers. Please do report back when/if ever you manage to compare with others. Don't be surprided though if you stick with thoses M30.1s!

I too would appreciate reading a follow-up after you've lived with the 30.1's for a while. I read a blog a few months ago by a guy who has both ESL-57's and 30.1's, and as I recall he occasionally swaps them back and forth but overall prefers the 30.1. Hopefully you will feel the same way about the 30.1 and your ESL-63.

I thought I’d give an update on this thread, since I’m now using the M30.1 as my main speaker. It took some time to make a proper decision to say goodbye the the 63s. During this time I switched them with the M30.1 and both had their virtues. Then I put the M30.1 in my ‘second’ system in a larger room. I set up my old Onix BWD-1 tuner in that room and found that I was listening to BBC's classical radio station at every possible opportunity. This is when I started to fall in love with the clarity and naturalism of the M30.1.

Then I totally changed my main listening room around – it became a much better living room, but not a good space for dipoles. That decided the fate of my 63s. However the Harbeths now work very well in the new arrangement. The imaging has clicked, and I’ve got no bass issues in spite of placement quite close to corners (a pair of GK Tri-Traps helps). I’m also experimenting with a sub, and that is working better than any previous experiments.

During this time I also continued to listen to more speakers. I heard some Avalon Ideas, which did not reach the lofty heights that reviews had promised, although I think they are a decent speaker and a relatively honest one. I heard some exceptional Geithain active monitors (RK 903K), which challenged some of my prejudices about pro monitors – these were tonally natural without being harshly revealing, and to my surprise, worked very well at low volume. I heard the KEF Reference One, which were not bad, but ultimately disappointing; mid-bass heavy, overly warm, and unable to convey the higher harmonics of instruments like trumpet and soprano sax.

Finally, the speakers to cause the biggest impression have been the Proac D30R, recommended frequently on this thread. I heard these directly after the KEF and they were so much more revealing and refined. The ribbon is exceptionally well implemented, and whilst it does feel like it is throwing a spotlight at times, this never feels unnatural, and they are not bright in the negative sense. The hi-fi store let me have plenty of time to myself and I listened to a great deal of music; they excelled with orchestral recordings, and with a series of recordings of female soprano and piano I played. They were good with my favourite Coltrane pieces, great with well recorded modern pop (Stereolab in particular sounded great). This demo really felt like my own private party. The only concern I had was a rather lean mid-bass, which proved to be unflattering to a My Bloody Valentine cd I threw on as an afterthought at the end of the demo.

I played a lot of the same music later on the M30.1. The M30.1 are generous in the mid-bass where the D30R are lean, and this helped with the less than refined rock recordings. With the classical soprano recordings (these were all of French art-song – Debussy, Faure, etc) the M30.1 were also exquisite. A little less airiness and intricate vocal inflection, but possibly more dramatic purpose. However I love both speakers with this kind of music. With the Uchida recording of a Mozart piano concerto I heard more air around the top notes of the piano on the D30R. The word ‘air’ seems to be recurring already, and this is perhaps not the strongest point of the M30.1. The C7ES3 are more open, but this is achieved by a slight presence-region excess, where the M30.1 are very slightly recessed. I could go on in more detail, but I think it’s clear that I’m an admirer of both these designs, even though neither quite achieve what I set out to find. There are one or two other speakers I want to hear, such as the French Lecontoure range made by Lavardin. But for now, I live with and enjoy the Harbeths.

Keep in mind that over the long haul, the Proacs may not be as lean as you think. They maybe more accurate and realistic. We love the plummy in the mid bass. The situation you are running into is what we all do....The perfect speaker isn't out there and you are hearing compromises. What can you live with in your home and what can't you???

Thanks for the update Andrew.

Ctsooner, you may be right about the Proacs - it would be for the room to make the decision. I'd certainly like to hear them at home but I'm in no rush because I'm enjoying the M30.1. The mid-bass emphasis seems to me very subtle indeed with these speakers, unlike the KEF Ref One that I mentioned, where it was a big warm bath. I would even contrast it to the P3ESR, which has a significant mid-bass hump to disguise the lack of any lower bass at all. This can be enjoyable, and because that speaker is not ported, it gets away with this emphasis - the extra bass isn't just port porridge.

Sorry for the excessive length and diaristic nature of my summary; I can't seem to find any editing functions or I would have cut it down to more relevant details about the M30.1.

Enjoyed what you are posting Andre. No edit needed. Thanks for sharing. Are the Proac's fully burned in? I heard a pair of D40R's months ago as a store that also had AN/UK gear. We listened to all high end tube gear. I was floored at how good the Proac's sounded. They really did a great job with that ribbon. The bass wasn't up to par, but I think it was the amp as none of the speakers we heard that day had decent bass, so I don't think it was the Proac's.

That is a good question. It's actually quite possible that the D30R weren't fully burnt in since the dealer said they hadn't listened to them yet.

I certainly agree with you that they have achieved something special with the ribbon tweeter, and it didn't have any of the flaws I associated with that kind of deign. Dispersion was good, both lateral and vertical, and they didn't seem to have a narrow sweet spot. (Although of course, after a year with Quads, most speakers seem to have a wide sweet spot).

The D40R has twin bass drivers, so that might make the difference. I do seem to be finding that floor standing speakers with a single bass driver can achieve deep bass, but are often a little lean in the mid-bass. At least that is what I found with the Devore Super 8s, and I'm told the 88s are similar. But it may be that the D30R properly burnt in would loosen out in this area. I would get a home demo, but as it stands I'd prefer to spend money on a new phono stage when I'm enjoying the Harbeths. Perhaps in a few months time.

I came to update this thread and I cannot believe it has been more than a year since I started it. It's taken me that long to settle on speakers. 

The M30.1 were lovely, but I craved more bass, and a little more presence. A pair of SHL5 Plus came up for a good price so I went for them. They are wonderful, but I still had some issues in my small room. I had some plans drawn up for additional room treatment, but then, out of the blue, came something completely different. 
I had never heard of Vaughn speakers 3 months ago, and I suspect they are very rare in the UK, but a pair of Cabnernet Ones came up for an unbelievable price. They have the powered subs fitted, and this has really solved the issues with my small room. 

It's amazing such a speaker can work well in a room of 15' x 12'. There were times when I felt like giving up and moving to headphones, but now things have clicked. 

The speakers like a little room behind them for imaging but they work fine relatively close to the side walls with the active subs firing inwards. They have excellent dynamics and clarity, and they are chameleons with regards to amps. A friend brought a Unison Research SET amp around and they were so completely different to how they sound with my Croft amps. 

I am currently powering them with ARC LS26 and VAC Auricle Musicblocs, so it's suddenly becoming a surprisingly American system, after years of very British Quads and Harbeths. However I still have my Tom Fletcher deck and Audio Synthesis DAC so its a nice transatlantic synergy.

Glad you are happy.  If you have a chance, check out the Vandersteen Treo or Quatro's.  I have the Treo's now and am selling them to get the Quatro's as I want that powered, room tunable bass, but the Treo's do have a ton of bass for a large room as long as you use the correct amp (folks really need to make sure their components all work well together to get the most out of their systems.  All too often you see mismatches and won't want to say anything as it may hurt someone's feelings).  Thanks for the update.

For what you say you like I'm think you need to put the Vandersteen and Proacs into play.  Vandersteen is one of the few dynamic driver speakers that sound like a single driver speaker and have a similar sound to panels without the panels first reflection distortion in the time alignment. Many don't mind this, some do.  I love the panels mids, but for me the highs on most of them aren't what I personally like.  Again, it's all about your tastes.