It has happened again. Major tweak and record provider has available a steam cleaner made especially for records. Anybody try steam for cleaning lp’s? What were your results? Since a unit can be had for about $20 at Target, 15% of what the tweak provider is charging, is it worth a try?.
FYI: Wal-Mart has sold the exact steamer as Mapleshade for $34.00 on the internet, delivery is free to the nearest store near you.
Maczurak: Earlier in this thread it has been outlined where to purchase the similar-type , cloths and DIY additives to be painted on the record but never put inside the heating chamber. The specific reasons have been outlined. There is nothing unacceptable in regard to giving Mapleshade $150 or you can DIY for less far less. As for all the hype on his special liquids , no problem spend the money or use alternatives. Its all up to you. All the best.
Maczurak - you're more than welcome to plop down $150 for the "kit" if you'd like, as is anyone else. I'm merely saying that a large bulk of their cost is the steamer itself. The other items, quite frankly, are inconsequential with regards to cost from Mapleshade's standpoint.
The only way to get "the highest capacity hand steamer with the best spray pattern we’ve tested" is to buy the full kit at $150. All I'm saying is if that seems a tad ridiculous, you can get the same device for $45 if you'd like. I wisely chose the latter...
Just bought a steam cleaner today! I have had my interest peaked in this issue! I had a Apollo Moon Lp from a friend's basement that was so bad with mold I would not even put it on the RCM. I mean mold from rim of record to label. So a perfect candidate. Well it is almost tick free! It was also somewhat scatchy. So this for sure works. After steam cleaning I use the RCM.
So for sure on turd records this works. (nothing to lose)
I also did buy 2 mint condition Prince Purple Rain LP's today to go with the one I have. Mine has a slight cloudiness. I have several lp's that LOOK mint but sound cloudy??? You can see a kind of haze on the record. This is what interests me in this! I don't have hardly any moldly lp's the the Apollo one. But I do have many slightly cloudy ones.
I think this is mold from being stored in the basement. I don't mean massive mold but the kind you have to angle the record in the light the right way.
I will let everyone know my opinion on the this cleaning with the 3 Prince lp's. I can see this works on garbage records but what does it do to the sound on good ones? I have a Beatles White Album in the same condition (looking mint sounding cloudy)
I am concerned some people are buying lousy records steam cleaning them to reduce noise and open up sound but also doing groove damage? So I will do a sound demo on a Prince records.
What frustrates me is the mint looking slightly cloudy lp that sounds cloudy and there is NO WAY the RCM gets that off. I have tried so many times. I think RCM's clean dirt but do not take off light mold. This is where the Steam cleaner does make sense!
So far things look promising but scary! It looks as if I have done groove damage to the Prince lp. (none was done to the Apollo one) There is a wavy look at some spots where maybe melted the vinyl somewhat. But the sound is MUCH more open! First impression tells me this is as much an improvement as the $500 RCM! and it was $30!
Very excited this is interesting. I will keep posted the test is being done on a audiophile level turntable.
Volleyguy, I am under the impression that you haven't read every post prior to you use of Steam Cleaning. As the person that "invented" the process, please use record cleaning fluids and should you own a RCM use it. Of course, some can get away without a complete understanding of the process, but problems can appear that would not be so complicated with a tad more reading.
Crem1 I did read quite a lot but not all. The one prince record which is '80's and the vinyl is thin did distort on the grooves. It still seems to sound very good though. I am interested in this process for those records that have a light mold on them that my RCM does not clean. I bought a steamer to clean our vinyl windows and got thinking then stumbled onto the tread. Any suggestions?
Crem1 that is why I bought the other 2 price lp's mine has a slight mold but the 2 I bought are clean. They were cheap to experiement with and I can compare to a pristine copy. I know they get cleaner without a doubt! but wondered what happened to the grooves? Do you know what temp mold breaks down? This can only work if mold breaks down before vinyl distorts? I my case the records I am interested in this are mint (looking) but I feel sound 80%. The Apollo 11 record is garbage so all upside. (and work it does!) But what I did not want was to turn my mint vinyl with slight haze (mold) into 40% sounding vinyl? Cleaner yes but distorted?
One trick for mold (fungus) is to use a mild bleach solution prior to steam cleaning. It works well to oxidize the mold. Rinse thoroughly then follow your normal cleaning regiment. Also, if you are distorting the vinyl, then you are heating it too much. The key with the steam is a slight heatup to aid in the cleaning process by making your cleaning solution more effective. think of trying to clean greasy pots with cold water vs hot water. The soap just works better warm
I admit to getting carried away with the Prince record. I was just seeing how much I could steam. I am going to try the mild bleach. I do believe cleaning with hot water for sure works. Funny no one has done it to vinyl records before? I mean we clean everything in hot water?
Agree you must be careful. But a weak bleach solution will not harm the vinyl. Thousands of swimming pool liners get much more concentrated doses with no adverse impact. Remember, this is a one time application that is removed promptly. I have used it on some great garage sale finds with very good results. It is not recommended for general cleaning but rather specifically for mold removal. Works fantastic for that.
Cleaned a Abbey Road (Beatles) lp and it was a BIG improvement! The improvement came in voices mostly. Much easier to tell who was singing each song and back-ups. I was quite surprised. Thanks Crem1!
I also cleaned a White Album with mixed results. It sounds more open and I hear things I never heard before but it seems to reveal what I always thought that the album has was more wear than is visible. So the mixed results are I thought it was going to clean the mold off and the lp would sound great but it still does not sound great (just more open) but the high's seem worse or I just notice them more?
Anyone else find that out?
The upside is HUGE with this though like a component (pre amp) upgrade. I would say as noticeable as when I got the RCM which I always tell people that is big. They do seem to work well together.
Listened to Abbey Road 4 times yesterday in shock at how much better it sounded. Crem1 what records in general get better, no doubt if crud in the groove is a problem and not groove wear. Have you found that sometimes when steamed sound opens up but wear shows up even more. This seemed to happen to me on the White Album.
Volleguy: That's the double edge to steam cleaning and cleaning in general; the damaged recordings "sound" better but the damage is sonically evident. It is apparent on LPs that had high cartridge weights 25+ years ago. My first Beatle records were played on a Garrard with a heavy plated tonearm @6gms+ cartridge weights. The damage is quite evident.
I've had my Perfection stemaer for about 5 days and have cleaned about a dozen records with it in conjuction with my usual cleaning regimen on a VPI 17. This includes L'Art du SOn fluid, AI Enzyme cleaner, Disc Doctor brushes, and now the Perfection steamer. I am convinced that the results are the cleanest these records will ever be. Unfortunately one still cannot "unscratch" an LP!
IMO the steamer is a MAJOR step forward - even more than the advent of the enzyme cleaners. In summary: Purchase and use of the Perfection steamer is the BEST "bang for buck" I've ever gotten in over 20 years in this hobby.
Doak: Thank you, thank you : For years I have been wageing this battle and its not easy. Besides the invested few within the industry hating me, I have to deal with those that want to take advantage of the fact I am giving away this information for FREE. I don't ask for anything only your common sence and the hope I have given you more Audio Enjoyment. There is a point to this ... Back when audio started it was a community ... All the very best.
No it is defective , please return to the Walgreens for a replacement. This happens sometimes. Remember, Never use tap water , chemicals in that water can clog the steamer. Any short cut with water should affect the outcome.
Tvad i have refined my steaming using regular distilled water when cleaning and using Nerl lab grade water for a double rinse not in the steamer but by manual application.
I dont know if leaving water in the steamer after finishing your cleaning is a good idea. I poured a small amount out days later and you could see a lot of particles mixed in the water.
I have found just a slight push of the trigger gives the best coverage of a lp. You dont need to blast the lp. Apply your preferred cleaner to the lp start at the outside of the lp and work your way to the label with the steamer about 7 seconds. I use VPI 17f brushes. Steamer in one hand brush in the other. Then i vac and pass the steamer only vac again then the first Nerl rinse vac then the final Nerl rinse vac and package in a MFSL sleeve.
Hands down steaming along with your preferred method of cleaning is the best way to get the best sound and least noise from a vinyl record.
Happy vinyl play to all with your steamed cleaned records.
I've got the Perfection and had some sputtering with mine. I came upon a technique that may help. I haven't done it enough times to be sure that it works. Anyway, try this and see if it cuts down on the sputtering. I use the extension and the right angle attachment.
Pick up the steamer but before hitting trigger, tilt it back toward the handle a little and give it a couple of taps with your free hand. Try to keep it tilted back while you pull the trigger. I think I get much less sputter this way, but again I'm not 100% sure.
The sputtering may be caused by the tip getting clogged on occasion. To clear I pass a piece of 14g wire through it and back to a nice steady steam stream. BTW this is a great way to clean records, mine have never been cleaner. My system for cleaning- I have an old player that I use- put the record on and give a 2-3 second blast from 4-5" with the record turning. Then I apply a few drops of my home brew and cover the surface of record with a 1" Purdy paint brush gently spreading. I then give another 2-3 second blast. Put the brakes on the record and use my modified velvet covered vacuum wand to remove all liquid and matter leaving a gorgeous better than new record. Thanks to Crem1 and all the others for showing me how to clean records like a pro without buying a $500 plus machine. This is my meditation prior to playing and I take pride in my cleaning that I wouldn't get by throwing them in a machine and waiting.
another reason for sputtering is overfilling the boiling chamber. There is a measuring cup that will help with that. I also use the long spout with the downward pointing tip. also agree you should empty the unused water each time. Even ultra pure will have some solids if you continually add water without occasionally purging
My Perfection has only been used twice since I bought it about 10 days ago and I don't fill it more that 3/4 of the full amount in the measuring cup. Hey, for $20 I don't expect the thing to be perfect. ;-) My technique worked out well for me today. I steamed 7 LPs, being sure to keep the pot slightly tilted back. It worked like a champ!
I have been steaming for near a "deckade and 1/2" . The advice offered by AG'ers is the best I have viewed. Just keep in mind my Perfection works perfectly. A beautiful head of steam "tear shaped" without any attachments. The fewer the better attachments for reasons that become all too apparent ... splurts and drips. Keep this in mind ... nothing , nothing can clean Lps better than steam for cents on the dollar. All the best.
The steam cleaning works very well for me, but I'll comment on the really dirty records mentioned above. I have found a diluted vinegar solution to be quite effective on those really cruddy records. There are still a couple of records I can't quite get clean but they are certainly closer to being clean than they were and with repeated steam cleaning and vinegar I reckon I can get just about anything off.
The post above which states you can't get rid of scratches is, of course, correct. But you would be amazed at what does come out. I have a record I thought was scratched with a huge click right across side 2. The click is now a quiet muffled noise since steam cleaning. It must have been dirt and not a scratch. You would be amazed at how many scratches are really just dirt.
Lastly, there is a thread on AudioKarma where someone has got some old records and tried a few treatments. The upshot of it has been that some pretty powerful cleaners have done no damage to his records. I think we all need to realise that vinyl is pretty tough stuff. Yes, the grooves are microscopic and we need to take care, but, remember, vinyl is not some fragile material, it is actually quite strong and durable.
Yep, DS, I agree with your findings. Many of those scratches become catch basins for the dirt and crap that cause ticks or pops when the come 'round to meet the stylus. Blast that gunk out with steam and it is surprising how much extraneous noise is gone.
As far as using tougher cleaners, I've not found a need to go beyond an alcohol-based cleaner which I use right after a steaming, while the moisture is still on the LP. I vacuum this up after some light scrubbing and then follow with a good rinse with high purity water. I'm finding that any clicks or pops beyond this are most likely damage.
davidsss I think the tick is sometimes maybe mold. I often wonder if the heat is enough to release the mold? I think dirt as well and one guy menttioned not needing a RCM. I still do not regret buying mine. It just works even better now.
Volleyguy i cant agree more with you on using a RCM. I used a lazy Susan and a shop vac for years. I have acquired most of my favorites and realized that the ease of a RCM is priceless if you are going to be cleaning a lot of LPs. I usually wait till if have 20 or so and then do my steam cleaning method. But i sure can understand others being happy cleaning LPs there way.
Bottom line if you are going to use vinyl playback as your main source the first step is ultra clean LPs.
A RCM in conjunction with steaming is my choice for sure. I would not be able to scrub and steam at the same time the first step in cleaning for me.
Steamers: Keep in mind that using attachments may increase the chance of sputtering. I recommend not using any attachments. A re-read of the thread provides lots of free advice.
OK I FINALLY "get" it: NO attachments at all - not even the short (8" or so) one.
I just did 6 LPs using NO attachments and it was a revelation - NO more spitting, MUCH more precise. After using the "spout" I thought that the steamer with no attachments was't putting out as much, but that is NOT so. What's going on is that is putting out a very fine STEAM, no condensation, just steam.
Thanks Charles for the pointer/refinement.
I read you letter to Positive Feedback and saw the mention of Murray Zeligman. Several years ago I owned a preamp built by Murray. It was based on a Dynaco PAS and it was killer. Had the pleasure of talking with him a couple of times - quite a guy.
this is interesting. i like the long spout and the downward pointing tip. It seems like it gives me more control. I have not had any problem with sputters or sprays. I do change out water each time i use it and use distilled/ro water. In either case, steaming provides a great enhancement to your cleaning regime. On an earlier post, i will point out if you have some mold, you might try a weak bleach solution. Works well with removing mold. I use it with a mild detergent as a prewash step in front of my normal cleaning regime.
Doak : Murray is one of the smartest/nicest persons in Audio and life in general. He is a unsung national treasure of music. The Goverment should create a Special Citizens Metal for him.
I would steam the records propped by a support only on its label surface, instead of its entire surface as a mat would do. Would this be more dangerous to potentially warp the records easily under the hot of the steam? (and left them warped since I've read about some curvature becoming again normal after the steaming process).
Morphy72: This whole warp thing has me in the dark . I have never lost an LP to cleaning. If it was trashed before its a lost cause. Gunged & goo'ed , they can come out like new. Soon I shall construct a "Gem" record cleaning stand , applying its use to steaming. Time will tell if its good or not.
I'm wondering how much benefit one gains from the use of ultra-pure water vs. using the Peak battery water mentioned earlier in this thread. Every time I use my steamer with the Peak water, there is a small amount of residue which comes out of the water reservoir upon draining immediately after use. If I can see residue after such a short period of contact, how much advantage is to be had using increasingly purer water? Are others noticing this rapid a contamination of their water?
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
