Dedicated Power Line Project

Been there, done that. Almost exact same distance and scenario. Originally, wired to code, the system circuit daisy chained like yours with my system near the end. This was replaced first with a direct run of 12 ga. Then this was replaced with a direct run of 4 gauge 120v. This was then upgraded with the 4 ga going 240v to a step down transformer just below the listening room. Very high quality audiophile grade silver windings transformer. Then this was all pulled out, cryo'd, and put back in.

A lot of people have ideas, and theories, and write papers and posts pontificating on their ideas and theories. Writing is a whole lot easier than going out and buying wire, running circuits, hooking everything up, playing music, and hearing what actually happens in the real world. As opposed to, you know, in your imagination. Which is what I predict you will get from the other dozen or so responses this will surely generate.

So, setting theory aside for a moment and going with what actually happens in the real world, the main thing you want to do is avoid connections. Your paper I'm sorry to say is BS. The biggest improvement by far is in eliminating connections. Run your big wire if you want, but realize I went a lot bigger than you did and even that didn't make as big a difference as going direct.

My current setup is so direct the "fuse" is 1" of pure silver wire soldered at each end to the 4 ga and bus bar. This is what I would do if I was serious, which I am. But a lot of guys only pretend to be, and almost all the rest are so scary afraid of voltage and understand electricity so poorly they would have you believe I have burned down my whole neighborhood five times over by now. If not brought the whole PNW power grid to oblivion. Instead of everything working just fine for like 15 years now. If you're serious let me know, I can PM you exact details. So as not to shock the Nervous Nancy's, you know.

This is all not really a lot of money, at least not if you DIY, but it is a lot of work. Would be nice to know just what you can expect from such a project. Well, here you go:

You'll get the improvement in speed and slam and pitch definition you are looking for. Most of this however is from the reduced RFI and other noise eliminated by going direct. Based on my ears, and I have no idea what a volt meter will show, but I do know what sounds better. Cryo'd large gauge wire run direct and with a step down transformer is the bomb. HOWEVER, all that is only about as much improvement as one Synergistic Research Blue Quantum Fuse.

Yeah. No kidding. Let that one sink in a while.

And I hear the Orange is a lot better than the Blue.

Of course being serious you want to do both. All. But big wire is a headache. Thick and stiff it has to be wrestled around and is especially hard to connect, unless you either MacGuyver it like me or go with the junction boxes, which loses with connections a lot of what you gained with the gauge. So to me it just makes sense to run direct whatever you're willing to work with, and not worry too much about it. Anything direct, even 10 ga, will be a whole lot better than what you have. 6 or 4 ga will not be a whole lot better- even if you go the Full Monty like I did. 

Especially not when you consider the improvement difference your thicker wire will get you is only a fraction of say one SR fuse. Which I bet will cost a fair bit less- and be a whole lot easier to install.

Oh, one more thing- ground. You can try a dedicated ground rod if you want. But ground is tricky. You may be better off with existing normal to code ground. Or not. So many wrinkles its hard to say for sure. Something to keep in mind, as they say, just in case.

mkgus

... I was looking at a 10 gauge or 12 gauge line with a 20 amp breaker. After running the numbers, even a 10 gauge run could see some significant voltage sag at 75 feet during transients. At that point I considered 8 gauge, but the problem with that is that no electrical outlets will accept anything larger than 10 gauge, so I’ll have to do something fancy like place a junction box and step down to 10 gauge at the breaker panel and just before the outlet ...

That is one solution. Another is to use a pigtail inside the outlet box. Either will work. I have found great benefit from using derated lines. Given that you now see your lights dimming on transient peaks, I’m pretty sure you will, too.

While you’re at it, I also suggest you consider multiple dedicated lines, unless you have a very simple low power system. There’s no better time to do it and you’ll never regret having the capacity.

millercarbon

You can try a dedicated ground rod if you want. But ground is tricky. You may be better off with existing normal to code ground.

It’s likely that you’ll hear from others about the potential benefits of "dedicated" grounds. It’s best to ignore them. Per NEC, all grounds must but be bonded together at the service panel neutral. No exceptions. Where you might get improvement - depending on what you have now - is checking the connections on your existing ground rods and consider adding new rods to the system.

On that topic, I also suggest that you get a permit to install these lines, unless they are absolutely not required in your jurisdiction. Your electrical inspector is there to protect safety and if you ever sell your house, the buyer will likely want to know that the work was done to code.

To satisfy @millercarbon’s concerns, I’ve actually already done this work myself, DIY. I have a biamplified system with separate lines for each amp, then also separate lines for analog and digital. It made a huge difference in my system.

Thank you for your help, Miller and Cleeds! I’ve had the same thought about eliminating as many connections as possible and trying to avoid any junction boxes and pigtails. Maybe I can find a specialty outlet or make an electrically safe modification so I can avoid connections. Surely copper atoms chemically bonded to each other (pure wire) is better than any mechanical connection. I will likely start with one dedicated line and go from there with additional lines in the future if that makes sense. Fortunately the path I’ll take is mostly unfinished or in-wall spaces so I can add future lines easily. I’m curious to know the benefits of dedicated lines for each piece of equipment assuming the gauge is large enough so voltage drop is irrelevant. I’m thinking it has to do with each piece of equipment injecting noise into the AC wires so that if they’re on their own lines they won’t “talk” to each other.  

You mean dimming the lights is not a feature? :-)

Your main feed (200A?) is likely 2/0, so even if it is 500 feet to the pole, that 75 feet of 14A is doing way more damage. Some amplifiers have excellent power supply rejection and can tolerate this, some don’t. 6V or so at 15A, but that is only the fuse rating. Short term peaks could be higher depending on how far the capacitors have drooped and the saturation limit of the power supply transformer.

There are no issues with pigtails (connections always made in electrical boxes to meet code), as long as the connection is made properly. If you want a perfect connection, use a proper compression splice with a proper crimp tool (and make sure the conductors are clean of corrosion). Don’t use screw lugs and definitely don’t solder them together. A properly implemented compression crimp connection is pretty much like a continuous wire. Any impact of this connection will be orders of magnitude smaller than the connection of the power cord to the AC socket and to your equipment. The ground should connect direct to the junction box and not pigtailed to a thinner gauge. That is frowned upon.

If you do run multiple AC lines, I would encouraging terminating them at the receptacles in the same junction electrical box so that all the receptacles have the same ground connection and you don’t end up with any unintentional ground loops.  As Cleed pointed out, the easiest time to do it is now and it sounds like you already have the 14 awg run, so unless you were planning to use that as a snake, just add the additional wire, even if you leave the 14 unconnected for now.

Running multiple AC lines is akin to bi-amping (not biwiring) speakers. Bi-amping allows you to prevent stresses in one range of frequencies (bass) from generating distortion in the higher frequencies, most prevalent obviously when run hard. Bi-wiring has limited (if any) value as the cross-over splits up the frequencies anyway. Running a separate AC line for power amps can prevent modulation of the AC line from impacting the more sensitive low power equipment. You are already accomplishing much of that by running heavy gauge and most low power equipment has better power supply "noise" rejection.

Interesting comment about large gauge being good for bass, and small gauge for treble. There is, unfortunately, with the way most amplifiers are designed, the potential for this. Almost as a rule amplifiers have good power supply noise rejection at low frequency (within limits as you have found out), and poor(er) power supply noise rejection at higher frequencies. Some low feedback designs can have pretty poor rejection at bass frequencies too. Reducing the resistance in the AC line can improve your bass, but it also means faster transitioning of the diodes (at higher peak currents) in the power supply which means more high frequency noise, something the amplifier doesn’t deal with as well.

Thank you for your reply. Very helpful!

Today I flipped off the breaker and started testing outlets to figure out everything that’s on the existing line. It’s worse than I thought. Included is at least 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom which includes roughly 11 outlets, 3 light fixtures, a fan, and a bunch of switches. And who knows how many low quality 14 gauge daisy chain connections the power goes through before reaching the amps and other gear. No wonder I’m not ecstatic with my sound!

The plan as of now is to run 2 dedicated lines, a 6 gauge and a 10 gauge, and terminate them in the same junction box so they can share a ground. The 6 gauge will be for the power amps and the 10 gauge for the front end. 
Millercarbon, if you would be ever so kind, please PM me the details of your power supply system. I probably won’t forgo a breaker at the moment, but I’m sure I can learn a lot from your large gauge setup if you’re . Thank you!

Had a discussion about this on another thread, talking about any code / electrician issues.  When I had my runs put in, I had a tandem breaker that allowed two breakers on the same phase with a handle-tie. Not sure those exist any more. I went looking last night. I could not find anything. I found youtube videos of people installing that way (and not a switched/un-switched) but two separate feeds. Typically for a kitchen it is split phase -- two live, 1 neutral with a dual breaker.

If you can't get a dual breaker, single phase, with a handle tie, so that you can turn both of them off at the same time, they you are probably better off having two outlets really close to each other and tie the grounds together between them. Your code likely requires that if you have multiple live conductors into the same j-box, then they must be able to be turned off all at once.

Had a good laugh about the wires nest you are dealing with. I once had a house built in the early 60's when babies were still a booming and housing was needed and quick. There was no GFI in the powder room so I added one, assuming the wire that continued was for the ceiling light. Popped the GFI once. Bathroom light stayed on. Kitchen light went out. Garage light went out. Outdoor outlet went out ... you get the picture :-)

I want to do a single run of 10 gauge from my breaker and instead of terminating in an outlet, i’d like it to be a 20 amp IEC I can plug directly into my Niagara power conditioner.

i know this may not be up to code. Any thoughts? This would eliminate some connections. With the Niagara it’s suggested to only have 1 AC line.

Too bad someone doesn’t make a high grade breaker switch. I’d like to try some contact enhancement on the breaker blades before inserting.

Any thoughts about which 10 gauge might be best? I know there’s is at least 1 in wall cable on the market for many years.

@emailists

I assume you live in the US. My post only applies if you live in the US.

If you use Romex, (Romex is a Trade Name for NM sheathed cable), it is not designed or manufactured, or UL Listed, for use as you would like to do as basically a power cord extending from the wall electrical box. I only point that out so you know what most likely the electrical governing body in your area allows. (The AHJ, Authority Having Jurisdiction.)

With that out of the way.

Solid core #10 copper wire is pretty stiff and resists bending. Care would need to be taken when/if there is any bending at the IEC female connector. Any movements can, will, cause the tightness of the #10 solid wire to the mechanical lug terminations of the IEC connector to loosen. (It’s just the nature of a solid wire terminated in a mechanical lug). The only way to maintain a tight secure connection would be to solder the wire to the mechanical lug connection after mechanically tightening the connection first.

IF you want to meet electrical safety codes in your area you could cut/remove the plug off a good quality after market power cord and hard wire the conductors from the cord to the #10 solid copper branch circuit wires in the electrical wall box. Use spring wire electrical connectors. Nothing in the NEC Prohibits it providing the conductors in the power cord are rated for the ampacity of the branch circuit breaker.

You would need to install an extension box to the flush electrical wall box. You would need to install an approved strain relief cord connector to connect the power cord to the extension box.

Last but not least I would highly recommend you hire an electrician to do the job. He/she will know what is required/allowed by the AHJ in your area.

Example of a spring wire electrical connector.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-Twister-Wire-Connectors-341-Tan-100-Per-Package-30-341P/202894284?...

Jea- thank you for the detailed explanation.

Connections. I want to avoid as many as possible and of the ones I do have, make them as good as possible. A post above mentions using crimp style connectors with proper tools. If I don’t go that route, how about welding? I could overlap the large gauge with the small gauge (for making outlet connections) and weld them together. I’ve read that welding copper can change its chemical properties, but is it really that big of a deal? A 2” section of welded copper cannot hurt the sound that much when you consider its one piece of metal at that point and not even really a “connection,” right?

I never cease to be amazed at the propensity of some people to make extra work for themselves. Apply Total Contact. Better than any weld.

You and me both. This is the strange world of audiophiles. Something about no compromises and becoming neurotic in the pursuit of the best sound. 

Millercarbon, your set up is awesome overkill. Some pics in Virtual Systems would be entertaining and educational.

Mine is a lot simpler. I ran one run of 8 gauge to a L5-20R receptacle. A L5-20P plug and a few feet of 8 gauge lead to a 4 gang box with 4 Albert Porter 20amp outlets.

I'm probably late in the game on this discussion.  Agreed that direct line is better than daisy-chain through a bunch of low end crappy outlets.  Another thing to remember is that anything larger than 10awg is going to be stranded wire.  In my experience, solid core just works and sounds better than anything stranded.  Granted, the A/C in-wall line may not have as much influence to the sound as the final outlet and power cord, but every  little bit helps.

I would use the cryo-treated 10awg Romex from VH Audio (or Audio Sensibility in Canada). 

You can always look at the Oyaide EE/FS 2.6 wire.  It is 10awg solid-core OCC copper conductors, which will be much better than the standard Romex, but it's going to be extremely expensive at about $130 per meter.   It carries CE/JIS certification, but I would check with your local electricians and inspectors.  Local inspectors can get weird with what they will accept or decline (even though technically it's okay).  Local inspector will approve Romex all day long, but something different like this may be rejected.  The Oyaide is going to be stiffer and less flexible then even Romex and will require a larger curve radius when bending.

Thanks for the tips. I agree with your assessment on stranded vs solid core. I’ve found solid core to be better in my system and use it for all signal and speaker wiring. I’m not sure of stranded’s effects on power wiring. You can get 8/2 and 6/2 romex in solid core. Might be a special order but they make it. I’m on the fence about speciality high $ wiring for dedicated line. It probably helps but how much? Is it worth going from $100 or so for a spool of generic romex vs. $1,000+ specialty stuff? 

You can get 8/2 and 6/2 romex in solid core.

@ mkgus OP    

I'm pretty sure it is not manufactured with solid conductors.

Per the NEC as well as NEMA,  single conductor insulated #8awg solid copper is the largest allowed building wire. Good luck finding any one that carries it. You may find some old  #8 solid copper insulated TW or THW  single conductor wire. I can tell you from experience it a bear to work with.

Be careful when buying 600V rated so called audio grade building wire. NEC says it shall be Listed by a recognized NRTL testing laboratory like UL to name one. Some AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) specify UL only.


Jim
.

Here’s 6/2 solid core Romex:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-6-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/3127529

You’re saying that building codes won’t allow it to be used?

It says UL listed on the package according to your link. Are you running any of this through a crawl space? If so you might want to check with your local inspector might need to pull it through conduit.

mkgus OP173 posts

01-20-2020
5:51pm

Here’s 6/2 solid core Romex:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-Romex-SIMpull-6-2-Non-Metallic-Wire-By-the-Roll/3127529

@ mkgus OP

I can’t explain the ad. IMO, it’s a misprint. Should say stranded.

Here is a link to the Southwire Manufacturer’s web site. Note conductors are stranded. I can’t imagine working with 6-2 with ground solid copper NM cable. (Romex is a Trade Name)

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/sys_master/product-specifications/product-specifications/h77/hfc/...

If you read the reviews on Lowe's site the first guy who reviewed the wire said it was stranded but the ground wire was solid ? so it might be a misprint.

I will say that it is actually difficult (but not impossible) to terminate 10awg romex on an outlet. I have to have the Romex come directly into the outlet box from behind and then pre-bend the hot/neutral/ground leads exactly so that the wire enters the outlet clamp in the exact position.  Then I feed the 10awg romex back into the rear hole of the outlet box as I push the outlet into the box itself. This is NOT like 12 awg romex where you can just fold up extra wire into the outlet box. I think trying to terminate 8awg solid-core is pretty much going to be impossible, unless you have like 3 inches of space behind the outlet itself inside the box!!!

That’s just confusing. Under specification, it says solid and it shows a picture of solid core romex. 

What auxinput said ^^^.It's also too thick to fit behind the screws that clamp it down or in the hole to spring clip it.If you try to bend it tightly it will weaken and break.10 gage barely fits in an outlet.

jea483,237 posts

01-20-2020  
 4:42pm

Per the NEC as well as NEMA, single conductor insulated #8awg solid copper is the largest allowed building wire. Good luck finding any one that carries it. You may find some old #8 solid copper insulated TW or THW single conductor wire. I can tell you from experience it a bear to work with.

I should have checked before I posted. The old memory ain’t what it used to be.
The NEC for many years has stated conductors pulled in raceways #8 and large shall be stranded. (Key words, in raceways)

I had to go all the way back to the 1971 NEC to find where it said # 6 and larger shall be stranded when installed in a raceway. In the 1971 code it says in 1973 the requirement will change to # 8 and larger shall be stranded when installed in a raceway.

. I did a quick search and didn’t find anything in the 2017 NEC requiring #8 and larger NM sheathed cable (Romex) shall be stranded wire. I’ll spend some time tomorrow and see If I can find anything to the contrary.

There is a Lowes in my area and they show they have 6-2 with ground Romex in stock. I’ll stop by and see if the conductors are stranded or solid.
Curiosity killed the cat.......


Jim
.

I stopped by Lowes and here is what I found.

8-2 with ground Romex.
Two #8 stranded conductors with one #10 solid bare equipment grounding conductor.

8-3 with ground Romex.
Three #8 stranded conductors with one #10 solid bare equipment grounding conductor.

6-2 with ground Romex.
Two #6 stranded conductors with one #10 solid bare equipment grounding conductor.

6-3 with ground Romex.
Three #6 stranded conductors with one #10 solid bare equipment grounding conductor.

All of the above matches Southwire manufacturer website information.
https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/sys_master/product-specifications/product-specifications/h77/hfc/...

Jim

.

Thanks Jim. Stranded as expected.  You're a man of your word.

Yes, thanks for looking into that! That may change things. I’m not sure how I feel about stranded wire for dedicated lines. With interconnect and speaker cables, I’ve had the best luck with solid. I wonder if it’s the same story for power wiring. 

noromance-

Millercarbon, your set up is awesome overkill. Some pics in Virtual Systems would be entertaining and educational.

Working on it. The camera is literally on a tripod right now. So when I get home what will I do? Take pictures? No. Eat, sit, listen. Get enough Perfect Path Solutions Total Contact in your system and believe me, that’s all you will want to do too. Well, and drink.... and.,... well let’s just say its legal in Washington State....

Recently pulled the step-down transformer, took it in the shop, stripped it down, coated with Total Contact, put it back. Whew. Pics woulda been nice. Ripped the Medusa Power Center open, more mods, pics? Actually probably not a good idea. More than enough guys here already think I’m nuts. If they saw inside that thing it would be the end. Lol! Try to make it look nice, sort of, but bottom line results-oriented.

I’ve learned stuff you guys would not believe. People worry about a measly few volts. There’s an Audio Consulting isolation transformer inside the Medusa. Its only about a 35 watt transformer. Connected with tiny hair thin silver wire to an outlet originally used only for one Oppo player. That was years ago. Forgot all about it. Then last March added 2 Dayton sub amps to power my DBA. Guess what they got plugged into? Right.
By the tech spec types I’ve heard a million times here that should have a) burned out, b) flamed out, c) taken the neighborhood out, d) been the weakest most pathetic bass ever, or e) not worked at all. Right? Right???
Pretty sure there’s something right here in this very thread about the bass being so poor from big ol copper wires. This is hair thin silver strands. When I get around to pictures people will freak. Well it was by accident.
Point is, go back and read my review of the DBA. Awesome bass. Best ever.

Now granted, when I opened it up and discovered my mistake I fixed it. Moved the transformer over to the MPCs and ran ordinary 12 ga copper to that outlet. Not gonna lie, the bass got even better. But nothing like anyone would think. In fact if you didn’t know you would never suspect. You would be freaking impressed with how good it was.... when running through a 35 watt power supply.
So yeah, in light of all that I guess you could say overkill.
I’ll try and get pics up this weekend. Thanks for the reminder.

The ideas put forth here are good. Sometimes though, I just can't stop at the assumption that all the other receptacles in the house aren't hurting anything. because of sloppy connections, cheap outlets and more making noise on the line in general, every dwelling that I have ever lived in gets all new power outlets just on principle. And yes, some of installations that I have seen are just horrible, so there is peace of mind, and the benefit of reducing total noise in the power system. I even made the power company replace the very old power lines going through the trees on the way to my house. Ironically, the power transformer was already new. I even made them replace the same type old wire to every house associated with that transformer. Yah, it's that important.

Seeing as they don’t make the 6 or 8 gauge solid core romex I thought they did, I’ll probably just run 10 gauge, which keeps things really simple. Does anyone know what voltage drop is acceptable for a dedicated line? The NEC states 5% is allowed but we all know that wasn’t decided upon based on the delivery of power to audio systems while attempting to maximize sound quality. I’m coming up with almost 3 volts of drop, so the equipment would see 117 V when driven hard. Any issue with that or are modern amps designed to operate just fine with a bit of voltage sag?

My panamax power conditioner surge protector shows a voltage of 121 and that's  connected to a 15 amp receptacle on a 15 amp breaker with 12awg wire  that's  just in a circuit for the living room , has about 8 receptacles and a couple of light switches on it. Probably  around 40 feet. 

Thanks for sharing. Any issues with that set up or does it sound just fine?

What is the best way to run two dedicated circuits? If you use two separate runs of romex, how do you tie the grounds together? Can you use 10/3 romex for two dedicated hots and a shared neutral and ground? Is that even code? 😀

There are others here with more experience than me who could advise you..  I  would listen to the electrician. One thing you might ask if you're worried about voltage drop is if you could run a service wire as far as you can of the 75 feet from the panel box to a subpanel then run your 10/2 or 12/2 from that to the receptacles. If you're going to have one receptacle on each breaker no need to run 10/3 or tie grounds together. 

Can you use 10/3 romex for two dedicated hots and a shared neutral and ground? Is that even code?

Code? Yes.....

A 3 wire multi wire branch circuit is not recommended for feeding audio and or video equipment.

The two hot conductor of the multi wire circuit must be fed from both Lines, legs. One from Line 1 (L1), and the other from Line 2 (L2).

Only the unbalanced load current will return on the neutral conductor to the electrical panel. The balanced load of L1 to neutral and L2 to neutral will be in series with one another. The balanced series loads will be fed by 240V, nominal. This works greats for tying the power supply of digital equipment to the power supply of analog equipment.

Here is a video showing how a multi wire branch circuit works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVamt9IdQd8


Jim
.

I too will soon be upgrading my circuits. I have done a lot of electrical work in my two homes over the years and wanted to say first of all that 14ga wire is not typically used for outlets. That should only be used for lighting circuits. I know codes vary but thought that was a universal code to have at least 12 ga for any receptacle. You may want to have an electrician asses your panel and house design while you are doing this upgrade to ensure you don't have any potential hazards.  

I have everything plugged into a Monster power center then going into an outlet that has a few other items on the circuit, but nothing major. I have another receptacle in the area so plan to upgrade both and try running the amps into one while the Monster is on the other. I was leaning to simply going 10 ga and cannot imagine dealing with 8, 6 or 4 in a wall box!! In my experience any Romex is solid...none of these products are stranded. Whatever ga you choose, I would stick with a single run direct from the breaker to the receptacle...don’t try to change wire within that same circuit.

correction from my comment above...just went to Lowe's and checked out the Romex.  10ga is a single solid conductor per wire, but the 8, 6 & 4 were stranded except for the ground.

I was confused by that too. It didn’t help that I found an online Lowe’s listing for 8 gauge solid core Romex. It was an error: 8 and larger seem to be only sold as stranded.

I am not familiar with the code. I know I’ve seen 12 gauge and 14 gauge wiring used in a number of houses and in many cases, have seen one breaker turn off outlets AND lights. Perhaps codes vary or some houses just aren’t up to code.

dhite71-

I was leaning to simply going 10 ga and cannot imagine dealing with 8, 6 or 4 in a wall box!!

Ahh, I see this is the thread where noromance instigated me to putting my system on-line. Here it is: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367

Look close, that is 4 ga wire coming into the step-down transformer. At one point it went from there into an outlet box. So you do not have to imagine, I have done your imagining for you, as in actually did it, and no it is not anything I would recommend. In fact I would not recommend anyone do anything I have done. I am not an electrician. I am an audiophile. Who knows a little something about electricity....

Please read my first post in this thread. I just read it again and wouldn’t change a word. People are running around fretting over stranded vs solid and what gauge, when its been clearly stated what really matters is that the line be run direct. Its not that these tiny little details don’t matter at all. Its that they matter so little that in the big scheme of things you could be doing stuff that makes a huge easy to hear difference instead of struggling to figure out which wire might be a tiny little bit better- a difference you will never hear because unlike me you will do it only once.

Look at it this way. There’s things you can do to your existing wiring that will be a whole lot faster, easier, and cheaper, and make a whole lot bigger improvement, than anything you will ever get from any wire you can buy at Lowe’s.