Hi Axel and Lew. I'll go out on a limb and recommend a unit I've not yet heard. One of my local audio buddies (he introduced me to Raul, literally during a visit) who has since built up a stable of at least two dozen MM carts uses a phono stage from Emotive Audio. Apparently the good folks at EA, while normally designing tube gear, feel nothing they've found betters this ss design. I hope to hear it for myself soon as my friend is a very observant listener.
Since the JLTi was mentioned, I'm using one with a custom, fully regulated power supply. It offers selectable 40/60 dB output so is not a dedicated unit but has beat out a few other ss and tube phono units with my Grado Reference.
Your findings should be interesting so I'll keep watch of this thread. |
Well Lewm,
thank you for sharing. Now with 3 'tables why not give a NICE MM a try and let us hear what would be your finding.
It could be most interesting (didn't say rewarding... :-) to have another take by someone of your long standing anlogue background. If only to have some more prespective, and for under $1000 it be just as well :-)
Thanks,
Axel |
Axel, What I wrote was that the Sumiko Blue Point was probably my FIRST MC cartridge, back in the late 80s or early 90s. I got away from that pretty quickly. Then I owned Benz Glider, followed by a Transfiguration Esprit and then the Esprit II, only one at a time in succession over a period of probably more than a decade. These were all mid-price HOMCs, and in retrospect neither one "rang my bell". (I would never have thought of either spending more than $1000 for a cartridge OR buying a used one.) Then about 5 years ago, I bought a Koetsu Urushi (via my son in Tokyo), which was a total revelation vs those others. I now own the Urushi, an Ortofon MC7500, and a van den Hul Colibri (both of the latter purchased used off A'gon). I have not yet heard the Colibri. Of course, now I have 3 turntables, too. You could say that the disease vinylosis is advancing in severity as I get older. |
Lewm
>>> probably a Sumiko BluePoint, originally <<< oh, oh, :-) but that's also an MC?
about time if you get a bit restless to check on MMs, I say...
I have listened to A&R P77, Empire S1000 ZE/X, Shure V15 III VN35MR, Elite EEI 500, AT-140LC, and some bottom of the line AT with conical stylus (not actually much more than the $20 you pay for it).
All this has confirmed for me in my system everything that Raul is on about.
I have also had in my system, DV 20X-L, DV 10x5, Kontra-Punkt A, Jubilee, Windfeld, Dorian, Transfiguration Axia, Orpheus what I recall.
I mention this as I can not lay claim to some 100 plus carts MC and MM, Raul is working with.
Yet, other than that el cheapo $20 AT basic --- every MM was more fluid, musical, and had more 'magic' (for lack of a better word) in my system than ANY of the mentioned MCs.
This obviously made me wonder why?!
Raul, thinks it's just by the nature of the different construction that, given a decent phono-pre, make that difference.
What I'm learning also, there seem NO 'special' MM phono-pres in today's offerings, as all are -can do MM too-.
What I was looking for is a MM stage, differential, floating RIAA, tube, 100, 75 50 (47)k ohm input impedance, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500pF C loading. XLR outputs, Differential (wired) RCA inputs.
No such a thing for only up to 40dB for all I can see.
My current boards are, differential, SS (op-amps 2x) 1 for 40dB plus on for 69dB, no C loading (OK two parallel binding posts), 47k ohm only impedance. It sound pretty good, as it uses the clean power of the ML326S' power supply and is INSIDE the pre-amp.
So, I guess all there is, is to find some 'oldie' pre-amp? Not so sure I actually want to change my 326S (to darn convenient :-)
--- End of enquiry? Could well be...
"At least nobody can say I haven't tried"
Axel |
I personally have not heard any MM cartridge in my system since I stopped using my Grado TLZ in favor of some MC cartridge (probably a Sumiko BluePoint, originally), about 2 decades ago. I have nothing much to go on except Raul's opinions. |
Hi Lewm,
following FYI, (in answer to my query to A.W.):
>>> The balanced phono stage with "floating" RIAA is not usable as a stand alone unit, as it cannot drive a interconnect cable, and requires a fixed 50k ohm loading to have correct RIAA eq. <<<
And:>>> What is your favorite MM cartridge? <<<
Well, I tried to answer that, and even with the few MMs I have it is not so easy to tell. Right now I've switched to a 'Townshend Elite EEI 500 (parabolic)' and it immediately shows, it can do punchy bass and pretty clean treble.
So now, what's your favourite MM cart?
It'd be just interesting to hear, since I've buried the SUT for the moment :-)
Axel |
I see no mention of an FVP kit on the Vacuum State website. I do see mention of a new phono stage, the SVP2, but it is rather costly for use as a dedicated MM phono section. Has anyone heard the JLT1? The price is acceptable, but I know nothing about how it sounds. |
Lewm
>>> Does he sell it as a kit? <<<
I have actually send him an email.
I'll see what comes back.
Thanks for the feedback also.
Axel |
Allen has publicly disclosed his FVP5 and RTP3D designs. In fact, the front end of his RTP3D (using the MAT02 transistor that he mentions in TPCB2), is the prototype for the input stage of my phono section these days. The FVP5 is single-ended and the RTP3D is balanced. So far as I know he has not messed around with an LCR equalization stage. I've never heard the RTP3D or later version per se, but based on my own results with a facsimile of its phono gain stage, I would predict it is one fabulous piece. He uses a pair of resistors between the emitter(s) of the bottom transistor(s) (MAT02 or other) in the input dual-differential cascode and the CCS to control total phono gain. (Believe me, with the MAT02, which has a Gm of 500!!!, you will have gain up the wazoo.) The FVP5 would be easiest to build and may be all one needs for great MM reproduction. Does he sell it as a kit? |
Hi Lewm,
sorry for having nicked your question, not that I knew. It just becomes the next relavant issue after you get 'closer' with the 'MM prered' thing.
>>> Ideally, I would build an MM phono stage myself, based on a single-ended LCR type of RIAA equalization or based on a true balanced circuit design. There are several schematics available for either topology <<<
Now you nicked MY question, it's actually behind the 'Allen Wright' inquiery. He apparently has some VERY well thought out designs. I think your point is a good one, and that's what I'm planning to do. Build my own and meanwhile listen to my 326 phono-boards (and use them as a referance to improve on)
Thanks,
Axel |
Dear Axel, You stole my question from the MM cartridge thread, but I am glad you did, because no one really responded to it over there. Ideally, I would build an MM phono stage myself, based on a single-ended LCR type of RIAA equalization or based on a true balanced circuit design. There are several schematics available for either topology. But in the interim (because it will take me 6 months or more to build such a thing), I would like to find a dedicated MM phono stage to use. Some of the above suggestions do sound appealing. I would like to spend less than $2K and to buy something used in that price range. One candidate would be the cheapest Allnic preamp, the H-1200. Others are Hagerman, Graham Slee, Vacuum State, Pass, Whest, Aqvox, etc. I would love to hear from anyone with actually experience of these or other candidate units.
My regular phono is a highly modified (by me) Atma-sphere MP1. It sounds wonderful on MCs, and I know how to modify it to reduce phono gain for MM, but I would rather not do so, because it would involve the insertion of a switch in the signal path which might particularly degrade MC performance. |
Hi All,
has anyone experience with an Allen Wright 'Vacuum State' phono-stage at all?
Axel |
Yes, if you get the match right. Start with the cartridge end and find out which pre's work best with the pre. |
http://www.decware.com/newsite/ZP3.htm
Try Decware ZP3 this is very high quality class A Tube
for $895.00 fully assembled and comes with a 30 day trial as well.
I am not affiliated with them. I have their integrated power SET amp and love it alot,But I'm not into vinyl anymore,But have purchased their Tube cd player instead.
Don C. |
Maybe have one custom made by Juicy Music, Hagerman, Wavelength, or similar for 3-6mV output only. |
Hi Dodgealum,
I think you got my point right on. We all know there are SO MANY phono-stage that ALSO do MM, like BIG DEAL.
It is the TOP effort that becomes of interest. My ML326S modules are doing pretty fine -- BUT I think there can be better to be had, and I think in terms of a tube design. But not another one yet that "sounds really good for the money".
Arthur Salvatore (may he be mentioned here?) insists the best has to be (happens to be e.g. Jadis) inside the pre-amp in any event. So if we take it outside it better be the best --- what ever THAT would be.
Axel
PS: Next we'll be crucified being elitist, I hope not! |
This question is something I tried to get at in a prior post. I, too, am interested in hearing about really top flight phono preamps that are designed for high output coils or moving magnet designs. The benefits would be analagous (sp?) to going with a really high quality monitor that doesn't try to plumb the deepest bass. In other words, the designer saves the money that would need to be invested in a larger cabinet, additional drivers, internal bracing, ETC in order to focus on getting superior sound within the 50hz and up frequency range. Surely someone has got to be making reference quality phonostages that are intended to be used only with high output cartridges--NO? |
The new Bottlehead Eros kit is quite something for $1000 professionally assembled! |
Should have done my homework... The Reflex isn't even in the same league as a Jadis.
But for those on a budget, I guess the Reflex is one (dedicated MM stage) to consider.
Tom |
To what level of "top" phono stage are you referring? The Graham Slee Reflex is a dedicated MM phono stage. (Yes, you can use HOMC cartridges with it but it's designed specifically for MM cartridges.)
Tom |
