I have heard both in differents systems, one all soulution with Hansen king speakers, only one word : FANTASTIC, and the dCS with ARC ref3, CAT JL3 and Magico mini, : excellent, I think that both have a great sound, perhaps soulution a little more towards LP sound. |
MAXX,
If you could afford it ,you should really get the dcs puccini.I had A long listening sessions using the full dcs Scarlatti combo and dcs Puccini.The combo was better but not by much.
The Puccini is certainly better than the following based on my personal listening sessions:
1]Reimyo latest seprates.Very close to puccini but can't get near the Scarlatti.Quite impressive.
2]Spectral latest saperates..The details are there but the notes seems to lack heft.
3]Emm labs seperates.
5]Wadia 581se.
It is easily the best single box player that I have ever heard.The best thing about the dcs? lots of details but very musical at the same time.My next upgrade.. |
Did you get a chance to compare versus the Spectral SDR-4000S one box? |
A used Verdi/Purcell or Verdi Encore ahead of a Scarlatti DAC is a nice way to evolve toward Scarlatti separates. It's what I currently use and, frankly, I'm in no hurry for a Scarlatti transport. If one has a sufficiently high quality transport/digital cable, the Scarlatti DAC could be a nice fit, though DSD upsampling ahead of the Scarlatti DAC does sound best to my tin ears. |
It's tough to compare unless you do it in your own system that you know very well, and needs to be very resolving. And even then there is the "magic matching" of certain brands and others that do not ... match.
I heard the Dcs Puccini in a Spectral/MIT/Avalon system, and I was not impressed at all, yes it sounded good, but not spectacular at all. It seemd to me all a bit too clean, too cold, too controlled and too veiled. But the room also was not top...
Recently I heard an all Soulution chain incl the CDP 740 on Magico V3's and cabled by PAD's. The room was awful and killed the highs and over emphasized the lows. But there was magic, easily the most musical sound of the whole show. I came home and listened to some of the same songs on my own system ... and smiled ! |
I have listened to all Soulution system in Munich, and the sound on Transrotor TT was overly bright. With CDP it was allmost unlistenable, but problem was I think in silver plated IC cables.
dCS is cold sterile and not musical at all, listened to Puccini on best new VTL preamp, S 400 amps, Wilson Maxx2 and top of the line transparent cables MM2 |
Ted, agree on you with the Puccini, the Soulution really can sound like one of the best though... |
You can also add the Accuphase 800/801 transport & dac combo to that list. |
Nolitan, no you can't, that's a two box player ... we're talking one box here. Nothwithstanding that, the Accuphase cannot do ALL music well anyway, such as rock, metal like the Dcs and Soulution can, even their top combo. I've tried.
Expanding the above would be with ie APL NOW 3.0GO, maybe the Spectral or the BOW and ofcourse (and I'm biased in this) the Playback Designs MPS-5!
Funny that no big name company would feature in the absolute best one box list ... that's because some of the best audiophile geniouses of the world are self employed or small companies. |
DCS Puccini cold and sterile?
sorry I don't agree at all and if it wasn't a problem of unlucky combitation, how would you then qualify Krell EVO 505, EMM Lab Combi, Esoteric 03 combi?
DCS Puccini seems to me the perfect combination beetween high resolution and musicality
I have heard it with Avalon Indra + Howland
Avalon Sentinel + Pass
Vivid + ??
I have heard quite a few CD Players, after a couple of months I have decided that it was the right one for me.
Sorry I had no chance to hear to the soulution |
with ''right'' associated gear and cables Puccini outperforms any one box cdp in the market. Period.
me? actual Puccini user who realy lives on daily basis. |
mert, which power cable do you use?
thanks |
I have heard last week the Puccini in one system composed by Karma speakers, Air tight electronics first and after Boulder electronics, very very good sound, after they used Soulution player, very difficult decision, perhaps with Boulder i prefer Soulution and with Air tight Puccini, but I can live with both players, finally they used Scarlatti system, not day and night ,but clearly better than Puccini and a little beter than Soulution, my advice, are you rich? you don´t know what is going up with the CRISIS? buy Scarlatti, you don´t have all the money and need a credit or have the money but not a lot more? buy Puccini or Soulution or perhaps Playback designs and you will be very happy, or perhaps twice happy with sound and some money in your pocket for to buy CD, LP.... |
Clavil,
I use elrod sig 2 with puccini since I have JPS Aluminata interconnect. Before I have used acrolink 7n-pc7100. However I have Nordost Valhalla, Shunyata Anaconda and PAD Ann. as reserve cables. Keep in mind, every gear requires different cable. I used to have Pass Labs X250.5 now I have Krell Evo 402 which requires different order of powercords and cables for best result since I have Boulder 810 preamplifier. If I had ARC REF 3, than maybe another powercord would yield best outcome with DCS. |
I have yet to hear something that could beat Metronome Kalista one box player |
Metronome Kalista? French parfume? never heard about it? :) |
you can see it here:
http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=54678&whichpage=24
Teddy Bear, have heard the DCS Puccini? |
I heard it and it's cold and analytical, overblown images. Lot of sounds but not much music out of it. |
Mert, with "wrong" associated gear and cables Puccini can and does sound dull and underwhelming. dCS to me is like computer audio. |
as a Teddy bear you should maybe take a little bit of straw out of your ears
sorry, it was a joke, I couldn't resist |
Clavil do your ancesters come from Romania? Are you afraid of garlic :-D ? |
Teddy bear! Bingo! by saying cold and analytical you just explained old DCS full stack! |
New one is not much better, heard Scarlatti on the DartZeel and ProAc D100; and on full Spectral/SDR 4000, DMC 30SS, DMA 250)/MIT/Magico Mini II system. SDR 4000 was so much musical and involving then Scarlatti. |
Interesting.. Comparing two units in two totally different set-ups? Might be other variants at play? ..Speakers? |
Bvdiman, read carefully, I have said that I listened Scarlatti play in two different systems |
Teddy_Bear, my apology.. Did you also tested vice versa? Maybe the SDR4000 was more at home (better synergy) mating their own gears?
Just curious cause I'm now in the market looking to upgrade current player. Got recommendation from AVguide to go SDR4000 or Berkeley which both I'm not familiar with. Therefore insights from anyone having real 'living' experiences with current top crop players will be much appreciated.
However, can't quite agree to opinions stating that old DCS stack sounds 'cold and analytical'. Had mine driving different--tubes, SS, speakers set up for the past 5yrs and never once came across such. But yes, they do need little attention to what's interconnecting them, including power cords, and good AC is mandatory. |
SDR 4000 is player only, Berkeley is stand alone DAC with volume control, so you could drive your FM 611 direct. |
In my opinion the dCS Pucini, Soulution and the latest Accuphase dp700are the best single box players. I have a friend in Germany heard the Spectral vs Puccini and ordered Puccini withSpectral dma250 and ss30.
I bought Puccini after having Emmlabs cdsa se.
I use Stealth Dream power cord excellent match, also good much the lessloss for bigger value.
With Puccini is crucial to use right interconnects.
For instance the Stealth Nanofiber is excelent match for solid state electronics and better than the Indra, but Indra is way better with tube electronics. In mixed systems (tube preamp and ss amp) Metacarbon or Indra are better.
So everything is about matching and that is this hobby is all about.
Of course reliable equipment and especially in digital players, audiophiles with expererience could agree with me, especially with similar upgrade path.
So please let's not be so dogmatic about brands.
Good performance systems is what we aim for. |
Kops, in what areas did you feel the Puccini improved (I'm supposing it does...) over our Emm? |
welldone kops, finaly someone made very accurate statement over stealth cables. I have tried twice to find reasons to buy Stealth Indra but in the end I had to put Valhalla action again. In reality Metacarbon and nanofiber are the best outcome of Stealth Cables. Poor Sergei:) |
"So please let's not be so dogmatic about brands.
Good performance systems is what we aim for.."
Well put Kops.... |
I took my MPS-5 to a world-wide renowned dealer/sound engineer, been in the music/equipment biz 30+ years, someone who knows everyone on this planet in the biz. My friend was comparing the Meridian 808i with the Puccini and clock. The Meridian won convincingly, more natural, more real, more balanced, no edginess that the Puccini displayed along with overemphasis on HF detail. So my friend took the Meridian home. We compared both with the Playback Designs MPS-5, and to everyones surprise it beat both the Meridian and the Puccini clearly. The MPS-5 seemed to take the best of Meridian and DCS and then took it a big step further. One comment was, this makes my analog rig obsolete! Here, nobody had heard about the Playback, who makes it, how much does it cost, where can I get one etc etc.
Didn't get a chance to compare to Paganini or Scarlatti, but then your talking 3-5X the price. Thank you Andreas/Jonathan for bringing such a fantastic product on the market, clearly among the very best that exists today, but price wise extremely competitive! |
Mtkhl567,
If all you said were true, it sure is worth looking into.. A bargain! Do they (Playback) make anything above MPS-5 ie.separates/flagship? Do they have a website or something? How much retail? |
Mtkhl567
mps-5 will sound better to you no matter which cdp it is compared since you own it:)
I would like to know under what conditions you have compared those cdp's? powercord? interconnect? pre and power amps? speakers? Sacd ? red book? or two identical duplicated cd? |
Back on topic, there is a discussion thread in the amp/preamp/controller forum about the Soulution 710 amplifier on avguide.com in which the Soulution 740 is mentioned favorably. |
Mert, this wasn't even a planned comparison. The dealer asked for it when I mentioned I had it in the car (the plan was to try it in my friends system). When we did try it against the Meridian and the DCS, it surprised all that listened ... but it was a group consensus, not just my opinion. Including a recording engineer 30 years in the biz of worldwide renown. The associated equipment was high-end enough for the comparison (about 80K Euro retail). You should get the clock though if you haven't already, without the clock the difference was even more substantial.
Don't get me wrong, the Puccini is a fine player, the MPS-5 is better. And yes, those who know me, my sound reference remains the GPA Monaco turntable. |
Bvdiman, to answer your question, no not at this time. However they do make a MPD-5 (just the DAC), the DAC is that good. The box looks the same. $15K retail, ex shipping & insurance & duties. DAC price I don't know.
Web: playbackdesigns.com |
|
Playback DAC MPD-5 retails for $11K |
Mtkhl567
Don't get me wrong too, you haven't answered my question yet... I know very well meridian 808.2 player, it may sound better only with XRCD based cds compared to Puccini unless if you don't switch PCM on.:) |
Mert, it sounds better with ALL well recorded 16/44.1 material ... much more analogue sounding. With 24/96 DVD-A Meridian even excels further. I was at CES and none of the rooms using DCS were among the best sounding IMHO, maybe that's a coincidence, bc the Scarlatti is among the best digital front end.
Ironic because I think the Magico M5 room was declared best sound of the show and they used a server based source with the Modwright Transporter if I remember well. Oh well, maybe we're all paying too much for digital :-)
What was your question again? |
Man, that Magico M5 room was flippin awesome.... |
Ray Kimbers room really bowled me over, with the four TAD's and his Isomike recordings... |
Mtkhl567
:):) ı didn't know that you were the offical spokeman of Meridian. However, I see, you haven't studied your lesson carefuly.
You need to know that 808.2 doesn't support DVD-A according to manufacturer's given specifications. Tell me how you or your friend could cracked 808.2 in order to listen DVD-A?
By the way, I don't have anything against Meridian since I do own Meridian gear as well.
Good luck and do what you know best!( just listen music, don't mass much with electronics) |
Mert, the 808.2 Sig Ref took my 24/96 Chesky DVD Audio recordings like a pro, just like that, and for sure that sounded MUCH better than CD. Sometimes I guess manufacturers specs don't reveal all, don't ask me why. DVDA is dead though as a format.
Now look who's calling the kettle black, you've changed gear more than I have! Like you say, I don't mess much with components. But I have a good set of ears and I enjoy comparing. And my music library is expanding by 25+ titles a week ... which is what its all about. |
mtkhl67
I have maximum 400cds: xrcd,sacd,cd. I can't say I am a stereotype audiophile, even I can't claim that I am 100 percent an audiophile! Don't have analog gear and don't want to sail to unknown seas. However my expertise is the get most pleasing overall sound for a given setup with tweaks.(mostly with cables) Maybe I gained this skill while I was a DJ....(still I play with pro stuff and experiment Hi-End gear together with P.A. stuff)
That's it! |
Mert, I stand corrected, the Meridian we auditioned was the old 808 not the 808.2 which, as you correctly stated, does not play DVD-A! There is a way to upgrade the 808 to .2 but I'm not sure about the DVD-A capability. I think Meridian dropped it.
I'm not sure there is a standard definition of an audiophile per se. In my book someone who loves music and is willing to go to some lengths to maximize the listening experience can be called an audiophile in my book. Anyway, this hobby needs to be fun, some take it much too serious...
You were a DJ? Cool, that means you are at least a music lover, the whole gear thing is secondary! |
quote I was at CES and none of the rooms using DCS were among the best sounding IMHO, maybe that's a coincidence ...
how was the room of Jeff Rowland with dCS Puccini & Thiel 3.7? |
Clavil, I didn't visit that room, but I know the Puccini and the Thiel's sound ... don't get me wrong the sound in these rooms were very, very good, and some have certain outstanding qualities, just overall not THE BEST to my ears. |
Mtkhl567, a Meridian 808 cannot be upgraded to an 808.2 because of all the changes made inside and out (they probably should've called the new player something different, like an 809). And sonically, the two machines are different animals -- probably because the .2 uses Meridian's new "apodising" filter. I don't know how the 808.2 compares to the DCS, Soulution, or Playback Designs machines, but I preferred it head-to-head to an EMM Labs CDSD SE - DCC2 SE combo (which had previously smoked an older 808) on redbook CD's. |
