Just picked up a used Bluesound N100 at a local HiFi store in my parts that was listed here. Mentioned to the sales guy that I am starting fresh with a new system and need amplification. He suggested an integrated amp with a built-in DAC (NAD 368). Here’s my question: aside from the relative merits of that NAD unit, why would I need a built-in DAC when the N100 has its own DAC? He claimed the NAD DAC is superior to the one in the N100 and thus worth the extra $ I’d be paying compared with an integrated without a DAC. Hmmmm.... really? I know there can be qualitative, significant differences in performance between DACs, but between the one in the NAD 368 vs the N100? I’m a bit skeptical, and he didn’t seem too eager to let me do a listening test.
Bottom line, I gotta buy an integrated and my shelf space (and budget) is a bit tight, so if I’m gonna go the “Swiss army knife” route (to borrow a phrase from a related thread), it’s gonna be for a built-in phono stage for my LPs, not a redundant built-in DAC.
BTW, this will be driving a pair of efficient bookshelf speakers so I don’t need a ton of power. Of course, I mentioned that to the sales guy and he argued that I should buy as much power now as I could afford, to “future-proof” my purchase in case I decide to upgrade to more difficult-to-drive speakers later on.
That’s when I left the store ;)
Sorry for the long-winded post. I’m a newbie and my head is spinning a bit over all of this.
Well, I kind of went against the no-DAC integrated amp argument and got a NAD C328, couldn’t resist a great open-box sale at local audio store. I can switch back and forth between toslink, which will use the DAC in the NAD, I believe, and RCA cables, which will use the DAC in the N100, to see if I can tell a difference between the two. (Do I have that right?)
A new question: sales person in audio store denigrated Toslink as an inferior cable format for sending audio signals. He said he’d opt for high-quality RCA cables as preferred way to hook up the N100 (which only has toslink and RCA, no coaxial) to the NAD. Of course he wants to sell me either AudioQuest ($75) or Kimber Cable RCAs ($149), which is kind of steep (to me) but he said worth the outlay for the superior sound they’d yield compared with cheap cables.
So, RCA versus Toslink in this setup? Worth the money for the cables he’s suggesting?
I lost out on the last Peachtree I bidded for (220SE), so the search continues. Although they do sell direct and the Sky is available on sale. (220SE was probably overkill for me anyway.) decisions, decisions...
Well if you are wanting THAT much power then yes the Nova is a great buy. I also have one of those in my second system......
Seriously good value for money, mine is a slightly older Nova and I swapped the tube out in the preamp section so not quite apples for Apple’s comparison now. Plenty of inputs, sub out, headphones out and yep plenty of power. I honestly think it is a little on the bright side but that could also be the Tannoy speakers it is hooked up to. I can say it's DAC is very good, I feed it the Bluesound signal via toslink.
Sources for this are Bluesound vault2, Nakamichi cassette deck and an old Sony Discman donated by our very own resident GK!
I think it is likely to hit between 7 and 800 and if you have that budget then go for it. Also a new one listed for 1099. You could probably pick up a decent used phono stage for less than $200.
Thanks Uberwaltz, all good points. But stop the presses! Peachtree Audio Nova 220SE on auction site for $500+ and counting. At 220 watts, this could be the last amp I ever need, setting me up for future upgrade to more demanding floorstanding speakers. It doesn’t have a phono stage but that can be had for not much of an added investment.
I will be watching this auction closely. Gotta figure it’s at least worth the $600 I’d spend on the PS Audio and probably a bit more than that for the MUCH more powerful amp stage....
As the 3020v2 comes with a inbuilt DAC anyway if you went that route it would be real easy to a-b the two DAC.
Hook up with RCA cables and a digital cable too( spdif or toslink). Then you can flip flop back and forth between them to see which you prefer.
Although I do agree that neither are state of the art, they may be enough for your present needs and it’s so easy and relatively cheap to upgrade to a Better DAC anyway.
Sprout 100 and the new version of the NAD 3020 also on my list. I used to follow audiophilia years ago before I left it for other obsessions and at the time lusted after P$$$ Audio gear. The idea that I can now get a PS Audio integrated for budget audiophile dollars is kind of amazing. As for the new NAD my only hesitation is the somewhat difficult onboard controls, which got sort of slammed in some reviews for poor touch responsiveness. My wife has to use this system so (sorry for the borderline sexism) it has to be easy to use. Have they improved that at all in the latest version of the NAD amp? I guess the remote is an easier backup...
Both DACs are mediocre at best IMO. Get a separate Metrum or Audio Note DAC and feed it with a low jitter source, like a server reclocked with a Synchro-Mesh. Get a Prima Luna tube amp instead and buy replacement tubes on ebay for it.
I would give a huge shout out here for the little amp that can.
NAD D3020mk2.
I do not know your budget or how many sources you need connect but for the money this is hard to beat.
Yes it is rated at "only" 30wpc but it has no difficulty driving my Epos bookshelves to beyond comfortable listening levels.
Inputs for Toslink, spdif, analog input AND a separate MM only phono input. Has Bluetooth input as well which I do use to stream Tidal from my phone to it, very handy.
Also has a sub out which I use to just fill in the bottom end from the Epos bookshelves. And a headphone out what is not too like about if for well under $400!
I have not regretted that purchase one bit.
I use with a tt and an old Sony PS3 as disc transport.
Given you also play vinyl, I agree with your thought to focus on an integrated that has a quality phonostage, use the N100 DAC for now and explore the DAC market for a possible upgrade later.
Buy something like a nuprime DAC 9, or 10, which can be used as a preamp, to drive a separate amp. I assume you can also use it with a simple and separate phono amp that should take up very little space. You are then set for the future.
Those Marantz models are on my short list, so glad to hear they’re well-regarded. I do think the N100 DAC will suit me fine until I’m ready to upgrade to a separate DAC, so that’s probably going to be the plan. Will keep y’all posted when I finally make a decision and get this system up and running. Thanks!
The nice part about the Bluesound equipment is that you can add you own DAC. I have the original Node and use an Ayre Codex for a DAC. The sound is much better than the Node DAC. B
Since Bluesound is part owned by NAD, I would suspect that the DAC in the Amp is pretty similar to the Bluesound Internal DAC. I own the Vault2 and Node2 but to to be fair, I haven’t heard the DAC in the amp. I think you did the right thing. The Bluesound DACs aren’t the last word in Daiquri, but if you are going to upgrade to a better DAC, I wouldn’t make a lateral move. Spend the money on a traditional amp, sans DAC, and then in the future if you want to up the quality of the DAC, do so.
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