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Dac+Amp recommendation for streaming-only system

A couple years ago I bought supremely good speakers (Zu Audio Definition MK IV). I was supposed to replace my old amp and DAC at the same time, but life got in the way and moving countries a couple of times + having a kid put a dent in the plan. Now I finally have the time to get back to this.

I know absolutely nothing about hifi and brands etc, so here's my question:
What devices (amp and DAC, or if such a thing exists, something that has both) should I be looking at for a great streaming music experience? Basically the system needs to play either Spotify or Tidal and do it well. Nothing else is needed (well, I'll hook up my tv to it too, but that's it). Budget around 5k.

For the reference:
- My current system is Plinius 9200 + MHDT Havana Balanced + Argon2 streamer.

The Plinius is a good amplifier, but super impractical (especially love the "too quiet - WAY TOO LOUD" binary remote) so now would be a good time to replace it. However, if nothing better has materialized in my price range I can live with it. MHDT Havana, which was popular at the time, was a good match for my old speakers, but just sounds sloppy and lazy on the better speakers. Also, it's super old so something wayyyyy better must be out there. Argon2 doesn't do anything except provide an optical Spotify stream for the DAC.

- I prefer something "musical" which to me is neutral or slightly warm, dynamic, precise and not harsh. Daily music played on the system goes from super-well produced (metal, old-school rock) to produced-by-pressing-record-and-hoping-for-the-best (northern soul, punk) so terribly recorded music should still sound palatable.

- As I said, I know pretty much nothing about hifi. I just listen a lot of music, so I bought the bits and pieces after auditioning them (the Plinius test especially was fun, as a local store supplied half-a-dozen amps for comparison). Unfortunately I don't live near a good hifi-store right now, so testing is a bit more difficult and would be grateful for some tips on where to start with all this.

kosmonautti
10 responses Add your response
reubent
6,990 posts
 
@kosmonautti - Regarding the "too low, way too loud" description of the Plinius: This is probably due to the very high efficiency of the Zu speakers. At 101db off. those speakers will play very loud with very little power, so a single step of the volume control of your 200 w/channel amp creates a large change in the volume from the speaker.

You might want to consider auditioning some low power amplifiers, such as Pass/FirstWatt or a SET Tube amp. You would most likely gain much better control over your volume with a much lower powered amp. You should only need an amp that produces a few watts to make those Zu speakers sing.

You might want to reach out to Zu or a Zu dealer for their recommendations. They should know what works with your speakers. 

Good Luck and happy listening......
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
https://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-essence-loudspeaker-measurements

Who said Zu are supremely good speakers.

This is a niche product that measures terribly but will sound better (louder and dynamic) than most other designs with a flea powered tube amp. The design has more in common with guitar amps than conventional high end audio.

Not sure who convinced you but this speaker is a great product for a very specific application.

With the quality of your amplification I would look at other speakers. There are many excellent ones better suited to your amp.
gdnrbob
4,444 posts
 
I think Zu speakers are quite good- especially for the price.
My Unions compared quite favorably to my Vandy 3a sigs.

To answer your question:
For now, keep the amp.
Get an Ayre Codex DAC and a Bluesound Node (1 or 2), used.
Though the Bluesound Node has a decent DAC, the Ayre will smoke it.
See how you like it and let us know.
Bob
reubent
6,990 posts
 
You are going to need to replace the amp or the speakers to resolve the issue with the volume control steps being too big (too soft to WAY too loud) in one step. Otherwise you are going to need to find a way to attenuate ALL of your sources. If that's a single source component, easy enough. Just get one the has a built-in volume control.

If you don't pay any attention to this issue when you get new components, you will likely always be unhappy.

BTW, I had the same issue with an Anthem Integrated-2 back in the day when I had efficient speakers. It drove me crazy because I could never find a happy volume step. It was always a little too soft, or too loud. No in-between....
whoopycat
168 posts
 
https://www.stereophile.com/content/zu-essence-loudspeaker-measurements

Who said Zu are supremely good speakers.

Good grief, I swear every criticism of Zu speakers begins and ends with the fabled Essence measurements from 8 years ago.  I suppose it matters very little to detractors that Zu retired Essence 5+ years ago and it bears scant resemblance to their current product line, but hey, one has to grasp the nearest straw available.

I run DefHeads (Def IV's minus subwoofers) and yes they are supremely good.  I certainly understand that Zu are not for everyone, and that some have had bad listening experiences, but that just puts them in a club with, oh, every other loudspeaker.

To the OP, personally I would go cheap on the streaming DAC and invest in a good tube integrated that will accomplish your sonic goals listed above and give you tight bass on those twin subs.  There's a ton of options for $5k, if it were me I'd be looking at Leben, Luxman, Audio Note, Decware, etc.  I use a cheap Chi-fi fleawatt SET on my DefHeads and I love it, but the bass handling on it would not be suitable for Definitions.

Other resources for you would be the Zu Definition Roundup thread, and also Zu's facebook page where they recently posted a customer's experience of using Luxman with Zu.  Also Zu would be happy to give you an amp recommendation if you call them.

charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Hi Kosmonabuttl,
First of all trust your own ears and judgement. If you find your Zu speakers wonderful then stick with them. Every single brand of an audio product will have its advocates and detractors, there are no exceptions to this. Whoopycat offered you very good advice and suggestions.

I’d search for a high quality modest powered amplifier tube or transistor (I’m more partial toward tubes but either can be fine). 10 to 50 watts of "high quality power" should be terrific with these efficient speakers. Take your time and do some research and reading. You have many excellent options for your stated needs.

Same holds true for DACs, many good choices are available. Take some time to get familiar with what’s out there.
Good luck,
Charles
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
One other  idea to consider is the all in one box (chassis) audio product the Lyngdorf 2170. I haven't heard it myself but people whose opinions I respect say that it is superb! Certainly worth looking into further. This could potentially be a very good match with the Zu Definition speakers. 
Charles 
kosmonautti OP
1 posts
 
Thanks for the responses!

First of all, Bluesound Node seems perfect. I'll definitely get one of those.

On the amp+dac front I'm contemplating between two options.

First option would be to get a combination like a First Watt amplifier and a remote-controlled DAC (maybe Benchmark DAC3, I did some reading and apparently those sound pretty much perfectly neutral & I assume you kinda want a neutral source with these kind of amps). My logic here is that this combination would keep things fairly practical, while providing great sound.

Then there's the lower powered one-box solution. I'm not too keen on Lyngdorf because I actually own their room correction unit and know from experience it doesn't do much with my current listening room & speakers. However, I noticed that Devialet 120 gathered rave reviews 2 years ago but was replaced with a newer product recently. Side effect of this is that hifi-stores that ship to my area are basically giving away used 120s, could get one for almost nothing. It's not exactly super low power device, but a step down and also likely a very practical solution.

Currently I'm leaning towards the second option, mostly because it's closer to a "hit play on your cell phone and start listening" ideal. And with rest of the family using the set (at least sometimes) this is worth considering. Any thoughts on if I'm making some kind of a mistake here?

 
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Depends on if you like the Devialet sound character as opposed to being heavily swayed by its obvious convenience factor. Choose what truly sounds best and most involving emotionally. 

Charles 
bond-san
37 posts
 
You may also want to consider the Auralic Polaris DAC,preamp,amp, and streamer one box solution.  I've owned their Altair DAC,preamp, streamer for about six months now and I'm very pleased with its performance.  Very easy to use and setup.
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