Current NAD integrated amps, what are your impressions?
I just picked up a C326BEE and wanted to hear if my results are common, or what the general consensus is for NAD. I did some searching on this forum, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of love or threads directed at NAD.
I actually acquired a C372 about 3 years ago, but sold it within a year as it seemed pretty bland and laid back. I’ve heard that this vintage wasn’t as reliable and my remote control did die. When I shipped it to the buyer it showed up DOA in one channel! I helped him with the repairs but it left me with reservations regarding NAD. From what I can gather, the current models are much more reliable.
So Spearit sound is clearing out refurbished NAD components, and I couldn’t resist the price(no affiliation). Bottom line, the 326 sounds way better than I expected. I’d been using a Denon AVR3801 in 2 channel with a second system, and the imaging, clarity and punch is easily better with the 326. I’m driving Tannoy DC4 bookshelf speakers and what a soundstage!. Diana Krall tracks are recorded with the piano mic’d so the lower register starts in the left speaker and the highest notes in the right. I’d not heard that with the Denon, but the 326 sets it out so clearly.
SUPRA LoRad power cable (3 x 2.5 mm²),
2x4meter SUPRA CLASSIC 4.0
Definitive technology demand d7 on isoacoustics, hifi sorbothan feet.
Cambridge audio azur dacmagic,nedis optical (pc and cd),Qed Performance 40i from my dac to amp with -10db rothwell attenuators for better volume range. Audioquest rca jumpers will be mounted later
Darker sounding and more bass than my denon dra-700aedab , soft clipping was on (no light) so i set it to of somehow i noticed a slight increase of brightness, with the attenuators 11 o'clock is loud (85db speakers) 12 o'clock still at good volume for listening to loud music.
Not as refined as my denon but some say half an hour to warm up (like a race car you know), burn in has happend long time ago and rca jumpers for the main in /pre out wil be mounted later.
Mabye not the most detailed sound
It gets hot but not as much as the C326Bee i once had
Audioquest rca jumpers in use, im not notice any difference where i say fantastic or wauuw
I have had a 326 about 3.5-4 years ago, it was a hot amp and to me it sounded so dark as if it would miss out of soms detail in the highs, i sold beacuse of the heat and the highs, bass was good as i remember.
Okay, a month later, and having changed speaker cables, the two pairs of speakers are pretty close in decibel level at a given volume point. And I'd have to say that the 375 is an all around great performer for the price point. As it turns out, I do miss my Ascend Sierra 2 with its ribbon tweeter, and none of my current speakers can compare to it.
So I'm not 100% sure if it was the speakers or the Parasound Halo gear I had, but voice placement with that combo was more precise. Also, piano sounded a little more natural or accurate, I'm not sure which. I suspect the speakers had the greatest part to play in voice placement. My one critique with the Halo stuff was that the top end warmness reduced that air around the instruments.
But at its price point, the 375 really delivers, and has that little bit of extra air. As mentioned above, I have replaced the pre amp jumpers with Morrow cables. The power cord with a PS Audio AC5, and Morrow RCA cables are MA3 with Eichmann bullets. Also the speaker cables are Wireworld Oasis 7. Over $1000 for all cables, and that probably helps get the most out of the 375.
I don't have too much experience with 4 ohm speakers, but I would have thought that at a given volume level, a 4 ohm speaker would be louder than an 8 ohm speaker since the amp would be delivering more watts at 4 ohms. And in this case, the sensitivity of the two speaker pairs is pretty much the same.
I’m running a Nad C388 I got here on Audiogon refurb’d from Spearit. Purchased it about 7-8 months or so ago. I’ve had zero problems with it so far and am quite happy. Neutral (but not "clinical") overall sound, but with ample low end. I’m driving floorstanding Tannoy XT8Fs with it, and it’s a good match.
Edit: I was driving some Klipsch RF-82II I used to have with the C388 for a bit and it was NOT a good match, and was really bright, so it all depends. That could be a fault of the "cheaper" Klipschs, not sure.
I'm still enjoying the C375BEE and Schiit Bifrost Multibit. I've acquired a few different pairs of speakers and the latest is a pair of Totem Rainmakers, which is a 4 ohm speaker.
I'm not sure why, but when I A/B a pair of Tannoys against the Rainmakers, the 8 ohm Tannoys are significantly louder than the Totems at the same volume(just employing the speaker selector)
Nad says the 375 does 150 watts into 8 OR 4 ohms, and I suspect it might take a 4 ohm load to the lower voltage rail, or something like that. I don't have the limit switch engaged, so it's kind of a head scratcher. I've been watching the volume, keeping it under the 10 o'clock position for the most part because I'm still breaking in the Totems, which require 100 hours of easy play, says they.
So here’s a surprise. I recently delved into the world of DAC, and ordered a Bifrost Multibit. Feeding crappy MP3 files from my phone to it, all I can say is WOW! The music has more detail which gives a better soundstage. Also, the bass is tighter, probably a result of more detail across the board. I had thought I had reached the end of what the C375BEE could do and am impressed there was more.
The DAC was not cheap, but the space it creates is easily noticeable. I’ve got to feed it some high rez music and see what it can do with that.
OK, round two on the power cable comparison about 130 hours in. I should mention that on the CD player I have a Pangea 14 SE Power cable. My results haven't changed much. The PS Audio AC5 has a quieter background with a little more detail. The ringing I get with the 18 gauge cable with mid range frequencies is completely gone with the AC5.
My only other cable is a Morrow audio MA3 on the CD player. I wonder if moving up the morrow audio line would give me more 3-D effects but that's a topic for another time.
I suspect that each of the better quality cables used for the pre-amp jumpers, speakers, IC's and power all add a little to the end result, depending on the electronics of course. I've read that speakers with more difficult ohm loads and phase angles benefit from better speaker cables, which makes sense.
Anyway, I hope this helps. And i've got to say again how impressed I am with the Nad C375BEE. If it's in your budget, it's a worthy addition to your shortlist.
Astewart, on the PS audio power cables I read more recently that 125 hours may see most of the burn in. I've been meaning to do another comparison with the original cable. Hopefully by the weekend.
I just unpacked a PS Audio AC5, plugged it into my 5 year old NAD 375 and compared the new cord sound with the 18ga stock old cord sound on a couple of tracks back to back, one jazz (Coltrane's "Blue Train") and one blues (Bonamassa's "This Train"). 213runnin's 03-08-17 description is as follows: "I've only just received the PS Audio AC 5, and tried it out on the 375 before taking it out of the system(to return it). Right out of the box, everything was significantly louder. The sound had more of a 3D presence too, but I understand that these cables need to break in somewhat." I'm not experiencing the increased loudness, but more 3D presence is spot on. And I would add that there is improved detail too. If indeed it takes 200 hours to break this baby in, I better get crackin'. 213runnin, let us know when you are at a point to provide another review of how the PC Audio AC 5 is responding with greater time on it.
Mesch I guess my cable results mirror yours. The Nad is now throwing up a soundstage with depth, and it’s as if there are no speakers. Good source material is the best, with the Nad C565BEE spinner. Seriously, it’s better than anything I could achieve with the old Parasound gear, although the new smaller room surely has something to do with it. But last week when I turned it on after a few days off, it had harsh sounding highs that really threw me. I guess the power cable is still settling in?
Astewart, I’m with you on the 375! I really think you have to spend serious amounts to get notable improvements. It responds to better cables, and stays composed when pushed. It’s a keeper.
I've owned the NAD C375BEE for almost 5 years. It's very enjoyable, underrated integrated, that allows continuous listening for hours on end. The bass is terrific; the amp is lively. I have auditioned other integrated amps at higher price points to see what I might be leaving behind. I haven't heard anything yet that I have liked as much as the 375BEE. I'm currently using PSB Imagine T speakers with 2 REL-328 subs. I'm headed to AXPONA 2017 to listen to several different speakers, and if after visiting Chicago I decide to change speaker directions I might make a more determined effort to see what else challenges the 375BEE's current hold on my listening affection. Having said that, I recently auditioned Vandersteen Treos and PSB T3s on the same day with the same source playing the same varied musical selections, both driven with the 375BEE. IMO, using the 375BEE, the PSB T3s buried the Vandersteen Treos when measuring the overall ability to provide non-fatiguing sound quality across wide musical genres.
213runnin, The one that came with my 356BEE is 18GA. It wasn't in the original packaging so may not have been the original. I never used the one that came with the 326BEE as I have other after market cables. I have the 326BEE and original cable double boxed up for shipment as I have that integrated up for sale. I believe it is similar to the one that came with the 356. Mostly I use Pangea AC14 with the NADs and all source electronics. I use the AC9 on my BEL 1001 power amp in my primary system.
I am not one to spend a great deal on power cables. However I feel that the Pangea cables can be had at a price point that it makes sense to use them over the far poorer quality cables that come with most electronics. I confess that I also find the sonic difference between these cables to be subtle, however real (Pangea vs. stock).
Mesch, are you able to see if your stock Nad power cable is 18 gauge? It's imprinted on the cable itself, along with various voltage and temperature ratings.
As for the PS Audio AC-5, here's round one, at about 87 hours in. In direct comparison with the 18 gauge stock power cord, I could only detect minor differences. This was at moderate volume levels with a mid grade Pioneer cd player as source.
Music was Dianna Krall's All For You cd, using a couple of the quieter tracks. I could hear the absence of a ringing type sound on the piano notes with the AC5. And it's not like with the stock cord I was hearing ringing noise, but just noticed none by comparison with the AC5. Also, the background was quieter. Inky black is the phrase people like to use I think, and it wasn't a huge difference by any means. Just notable.
I didn't have a lot of time, perhaps I'll dig deeper tomorrow. But frankly I'm not super impressed to be honest. My bias was to hear the angels singing, and they weren't even humming. I should note that I've read that the PS cables need 300 hours, though I have no idea if that's true. Just reporting the facts.
e12389, I'll update on the weekend when I compare power cables.
I was surprised when I inspected the stock cable to find that it's comprised of 18 gauge wire. Is that what you have too? That just seems awfully small for 300 watts at 8 ohms, but what do I know?
The 315 must have been a cheap production run, or i had just received the 1 in 30 that would cause problems. I am sure the models above have stronger higher grade components. When i pulled the trigger for the marantz, i was really hesitating between that and the 375bee, which is reported as one of the best value. But man, in japan, they really know how to design and manufacture, so it was a lower risk in my view at the time. And yes, if i had to re place the marantz, the new yamaha would be #1 on my list...
I have owned a C372 (receiver), a C356BEE, and cureently have a C375BEE driving a pair of PSB Image T6 speakers. I have never had any quality/reliability issues with the components including two NAD CD players (now using the C546BEE). I am certainly enjoying the sonics of my current NAD/PSB system.
213 - I am currently running with the stock pwer cord and am looking forward to your A/B test results.
While all NAD gear I own and have owned have been stellar in reliability and sound quality, I do hear of some of their reliability issues.
Chris, since you have had great luck with Yamaha, consider their analog line of integrated amps(A-S1000, 1100, 2000, 2100, 3000). I am really fond of the "entry level" A-S1000 which has been rock solid reliable and rock solid built at 48.5 pounds.
Chris, in as much as I like the NAD sound, if I had your experience I also would avoid the brand. If something go's wrong with my NAD356 I will look for a used Marantz 800x series integrated.
Wow Chris, I don't blame you for your reaction, you really got a lemon. I'd be curious to know what percentage of these Nad integrated amps develop issues. Of the current series, I've now owned 4 of them with no issues, though I've only had one more than a year. Also the C372 I had for close to a year(previous series), and it broke on the trip across the country to the new owner(we worked something out).
The C375BEE continues to improve now. The speakers have completely disappeared, and it's just a pleasure to listen to at about 35 hours in with the Tannoy Precision 6.1 bookshelf speakers. Again, I'm not sure how much benefit the PS Audio AC5 power cord is giving, perhaps this weekend I should replace it with the stock cord and compare.
I have had the 315bee in 2010. It worked great for about 1 year. Ended at the local recycling center.
What I liked: AWSOME signature sound and dynamics, simplicity, tone controls defeat, look..
What I disliked: Extra low quality pre-amp section, with volume control crackles after 3 weeks and over-sensitivity (max power attained at "noon"). RCA inputs, volume control, entire pre-amp section shorting after one year, making it unusable at that point. Extra lightly build.
I was so surprised to find such low quality under the hood of the 315 and even higher models that I came to the conclusion: NEVER AGAIN NAD. It is very sad that they compromise their good signature sound with so low quality components and assembly. In comparison, I have a yamaha receiver natural sound series, 22 years old, still working as new with not even a crackle. Doesn’t have the nad sound though. Also a Yamaha dvd player, 10 years old and not a problem. I also have a Marantz integrated 8400, 6 years old, on 24/7 and not a crackle. Sounds great and solid like a tank. ALL as expensive or less than NAD.
Avanti, at what volume level did you find the 356 running out of steam with the PSBs? I have not owned the Marantz integrateds, however have heard them in dealer systems and believe them to be of great value. I purchased my 326 new from a dealer friend of mine, and the 356 from a dealer online as new, both at exceptional price. If not for that, I would have watched for a used Marantz PM800X series used.
Runnin, I am with you regarding the new NADs, I am not yet willing to go class D. The preamp gain on the 326 or 356 is not a major problem once one understands the limits of the amp. I think the 326BEE to be the better value over the 356 considering retail price. The competition broadens at higher price points.
i have a c356bee and c272 power amp that i used in a bi amp setup with psb tower speakers. neither is in use now. the c356 ran out of steam and sounded strained in my room at high volume. reliability is great except for the power led. the c272 sounds more powerful and smoother, it is a dynamic powerhouse. however each are outclassed by similar priced marantz units that have a smoother, more refined sound imho. at higher price points the parasound halo and rogue cronus are at an understanably higher level. i will give the c356 credit though, i thought it easily beat a rogue sphinx and was more than able to hold its own against a rega elicit r, a $3k amp.
I'm with you on the volume control. The 375 is somewhat better in this regard, but most of the volume seems to be reached by 11 o'clock. I understand their new class d integrated amps have a digital volume which allows much finer increases, but I prefer the grunt of a class a/b amp.
I forgot to mention, I don't understand why NAD can't make an integrated such that the preamp gain requires so much attenuation that the amp is at capacity when volume is at ~12 o'clock.
Well, I compared my 326 to the 356 driving a pair of Esoteric MG-10s in a 12x15' room. Not surprising they sound more alike than different. I agree that the bass might be a little tighter with the 356. I do believe that for my outside system I will like the added power of the 356, having somewhat less strain on the amp at loud levels. Don't believe the 356 would hold much advantage over the 326 when paired with the B&W 685s (or other speakers representing a similar load) with system placed in bedroom size room. This statement based on retail price.
Next sunny day, I will take the two amps outside for a walk with the 685s and possibly the MG-10s.
Okay, I'm about 25 hours into the break in. After about 6 hours, things started going south on the sonics. A further 10 hours or so and it stared coming back. This is leaving the unit running for a max of 4 hours at a time, and then shutting off for an hour or more, to run again the next evening, or longer on the weekend. I didn't want to leave it on 24/7.
The other thing is that I'm breaking in the PS Audio AC5 power cable at the same time, so I'm not sure what exactly may be causing the changes in sound. But at 25 hours it's getting pretty nice. I read where another 375 owner was told by Nad dealer that he should break it in 100 hours, but we'll see what it's like at 50.
I look forward to your report. I just received a 356BEE yesterday and will check it out today and report back as to what I think compared to the 326BEE.
The new 375 finally came in and I've been burning it in. Over the previous 375 that was several years old, the new one has finer volume adjustments with remote control operation. I also find I don't have to use the adjustable gain outputs on the pre section because the output steps off 0db and ramps up more gradually, if that makes any sense.
Quite a nice improvement. I'm not doing any careful listening just yet until I've got at least 50 hours on it, but I do notice refinement and it runs a little warm though I'm not pushing it yet by any means.
I ended up buying from another retailer that has a BNIB 375, and I'm sure it'll sound at least as good as the used one I returned. One more thing on the comparison between the 356 and 375 as I compared them one more time before shipping this morning. The 375 has a smoother top end. The bass of both changed somewhat with the PS Audio AC5, accuracy became better for both, but the AC5 takes a while to break in, over 200 hours or so.
So now I'm back to the 356 for another week until the new 375 arrives.
This confirms my impressions with them as well. I was thinking of buying another refurb from them, but a NIB was being offered by another seller, and I guess I offered too much, they accepted.
I've only just received the PS Audio AC 5, and tried it out on the 375 before taking it out of the system(to return it). Right out of the box, everything was significantly louder. The sound had more of a 3D presence too, but I understand that these cables need to break in somewhat. So I guess I'm off to the cable section to get advice on that.
Though I have never bought from Spearit Sound, I have heard/read good things about them. I did speak with customer service before they were very knowledgeable, informative, and courteous.
Ah nuts. I had to return the 375(bought it used from a retailer selling on Audiogon) because it turned out to be several years old. I'm back on the prowl for a mint used one. Anyone try Spearit sound?
I have always been a fan of NAD integrated amplifiers for their sound, however when you get past the price of the C356BEE, the competition gets stiffer. Let us know how things progress with the 375.
I recently took ownership of a C375BEE to feed this weird Nad addiction I’ve developed. I can’t compare it to the 326, but in comparison to the 356 there is more refinement, air and another improvement in bass. It’s effortless. I don’t have any speakers with a tougher load, so I’m not pushing the amp by any means.
That said, it sounds nicer than I expected, with more air while not getting harsh or strained. A quibble would be remote volume control. All of these Nad integrated amps have motorized volume pots that increase a fair amount each time you press the volume button on the remote. A finer adjustment ability would be better, but budget decisions had to be made to bring each model to market at the price point. I’d say Nad has put the most money into sound quality and that’s the right decision for me anyway.
I'm currently waiting on a power cord for the amp, a PS Audio AC5. I've started upgrading the pre-amp jumpers on these Nad amps along with having better quality interconnects, and I've found that they do respond to better cables. I'm curious as to what improvements I might get with the C375BEE.
Thanks for the reply. Yes I understand the power issue. In my primary system I use a BEL 1001 MK5 which is also rated at 50wpc however pushes 200wpc into a 2 ohm load. It offers far more control over any speaker than the 326. Regarding the two NADs I am thinking the 356 would better drive a 6-8 ohm speaker of medium sensitivity knowing most of them drop to 4 ohms somewhere below 2K Hz. As do the current speakers I am using (B&W 685s). Thinking more toward control, the 326 provides the desired loudness however the 356 would offer greater control at higher volume, as your statements indicate. As I like to play around with different speakers, the extra control will open up more possibilities.
There is a NAD356 and a Arcam A19 up for sale on AG now... I will keep everyone posted.
The first thing that struck me about the 356 was the superior bass control. At higher volumes the sound remains clear when the 326 starts to get congested. I haven't had the 326 for about 2 months now so I can't add too much to what I said, but the bass accuracy was better.
That said, 50 watts to 80 watts isn't a huge amount of change. There are integrated amps by Arcam, Nait or Rega where a 70 or 80 watt amp may have more control at higher volumes. My Parasound A21 P7 combo is clearly superior to the Nad 356, so I guess I'm saying, don't expect jaw dropping improvements. If you can get the 356 at less than retail, or used, it would be a better option.
I am thinking of going up the NAD line, though I will likely look for a used unit. I tried the soft clipping function on the 326 however think it reduces dynamics. How much better does the 356 drive speakers over the 326? I am thinking I could use a little more juice.
Interesting. So I'm getting a C375BEE now( I just had to collect the whole set!) and it's got 2 pairs of outputs, one with a gain knob. I know it's not quite the same thing as what you've done, Mesch, but using those gained outputs would give much the same effect. I'll have to experiment for sure.
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