I am considering one of the two integrated amplifier's now as I am downsizing. Different residence. The Gryphon Diablo 300 or the Simaudio 700iv2? Unfortunately I can not audition either in my area. So I am going at this blind. Pretty much from reviews.
I am downsizing from a beautiful McIntosh system that just sang.....A C500t tube two piece pre-amp with Mc501 mono blocks, powering my PMC IB2i speakers. Connected to a Torus power RM20, and my digital front end is a Linn Klimax Ds.
I am keeping the PMC IB2i speakers, the
Torus power, and the
the Linn Klimax. Although I may consider selling my Klimax Ds to get the Simaudio 780d dac if I go the Simaudio route. I could update the Klimax to the latest spec too, but that's another topic.....
I did audition the Ma9000 integrated amp, and it did not grab me sound wise. So I feel it is out. I did get to audition some Simaudio separates, that sounded very very good...
So that's where I am at. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
You would be taking steps BACK, by going your route!
If you want a change, change speakers. Keep the Mac gear
speakers are the biggest change one can make. Don’t mess with perfection dude. Keep the Mac gear,... once gone, and reliability issues set in with the other components, you will kick yourself.
Audio Troy you need to get your ears checked again the Sim audio gear is not on the bright side of anything it's very neutral so if you're getting brightness from SIM it's either your speakers or your cables that's making it sound bright.
I’ve only auditioned the D300 and Simaudio 340ix integrated (not the 700i v2). Both sounded superb but the 340ix was a little weak in the bass frequencies compared to the D300. My ears preferred the D300 over all. But it’s a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. The 700i v2 is an outstanding amp but I can’t help but think the D300 would be my choice either way.
Please try vitus sia 025. Auditioned both vitus and gryphon before ending up with vitus. Very close call but decided on vitus for its more intimate mids and lousy recordings is more listenable. gryphon is much faster, more slam and better dynamics.
Actually there are a few posts on another forum,in one an owner of the 3100HV who tried some Furutech cables and was very happy that the cables gave the amp more dynamic impact We have noticed the amplifier is very sensitive to power. The other thing was a post from someone with both the Gryphon and the PA 3100HV at the same time in the same system and his response was a bit different, he found them both equal but different, with the Gryphon having a bigger presentation with a bit more slam, however he felt the image was more focused and the treble was smoother with a more tube like sound.with the T+A. So system matching with loudspeakers and sources are going to push one person to like one of the other. We heard the Diablo at Axpona and the system didn’t sound that good,
A cheappie T+A R series system was making a lot of magic and that system was a fraction of the price of the Gryphon/Tidal system the other dealer was showing.
Add a set of Critical Mass Center stage footers and a good power cord and conditioner and then see if the T+A doesn’t have a similar slam with the tube like midrange the you get with the HV technology. As mentioned earlier the OP summed it up it comes down to personal taste. One reason we were asking Humbetro was if the testing was done in exactly the same way, were power cables used and power conditioning? It is entirely possible we would have the same conclusion, in our tests the 3100HV has been absolutely amazing sounding and has driven all speakers beautifully.
"T+A pa3100- nice amplifier, but too polite for me. Nowhere near the dynamics and control when compared with diablo. Low end was much worse."
You just described exactly what I heard comparing the T+ A PA 3100 driving Magico A3 speakers to the Gryphon Diablo 300 driving A3 speakers. In addition, the Gryphon was more open and detailed to my ears.
Thanks for your post. Your testing methodology seems a bit skeewed, see a room full of gear, did you move the gear that you were testing from the one main rack between the speakers?
Was the cabling exaclty the same, power etc?
Did you warm up each set of gear before testing?
Did you use exaclty the same tracks?
The issue we have is your hyperbole, the Gryphon gear is great, so is the Vitus and T+A gear, any one of these brands makes outstanding gear that is generally considered better than most of the othe players you were mentioning. We have heard all of these players and it comes down to personal taste and system synergy.
We had one unfortunate demo with the T+A where someone turned on the tone controls and it killed the demo, didn't realize that the tone controls were engaged until the client left.
The Gryphon, T+A and Vitus gear are generally considered a step up due to their outstanding construction and design.
The Luxman separates should have outperfomed any of the integrated amplifiers, what cabling and power conditioning were you using with them?
What cabling and power conditioning were you using with the gear?
Your one statement is very true
I think a lot depends on personal preferences.
Last question are you a store or private listening room? That seems like a huge amount of gear in one room.
We run similar tests frequently we keep all of the variables down to a minimum by just swaping out the gear, same rack, same cables, same power conditioning.
Wow Audiotroy... Your statement is also fascinating, but not factual :) I may be new to this forum but surely not new to audio.
I think except ma8000 every other amplifier I mentioned was audutioned in the same room with my white fact 12 speakers or with fact 12 provided by a dealer. You can see this on the yt video below. Bold guy is me :) amifiers are all over the room.
I also audutioned many of them in different places with different cd Player and cables. Therefore, I think based on this I can easilly judge what is better and what worse. Of course for me.
Regarding some amplification being in a different league... Only Tucana, sugden and luxman l509x were considerably cheaper. I had Tucana 2 in my home system for 2-3 years therefore I made comparison and it was my starting point. Luxnan m900 pre plus power £22,000 with c700 £17,000 BRYSTON 7bsst2 plus pre approx £15,00. Ayre Ax5 £14,800 (not like you said $5000 cheaper) T+A 3100 £14,800 Diablo 300 £13,600 Avid £13,000 Mark levinson 585 £12,000 McIntosh ma8000 was £11,000, ma9000 £12,600 BRYSTON 4b3 plus pre approx £10,000 Nu Vista 800 £8,800, but in Poland £11,000! Luxman l509x £8,500 Sugden ia4 £5000 Tucana 2 anniversary £5000
Therefore, out of 7 amplifiers we went down to 3... I think you should take into the account different prices in different cuntries before you make a statement, because pricewise gryphon was in the middle of the group I auditioned.
I don't understandard your way of thinking when saying vitus is in a different league than Mark levinson or ayre. Actualy ML and especially ayre are more expensive than Vitus here so they may not be in the same league sonically, but pricewise the same.
He posted back in March on another thread that he’d ordered the Gryphon. Fortunately for him he now not only doesn’t have to read ads about other brands he never asked about, but his wise choice was confirmed by Humberto, George and Mike, LOL
Do you drive 10 different sports cars on 10 different days over a two week period on different roads, times of days and make a conclusion.
Or
Do you get all ten cars, drive them one lap at the track on the same day under the same conditions before you proclaim this one is the fastest with the best handling?
Love Car and Driver that is how they test a performance car under the exact same conditions, any other way you are going by memory of under specious testing procedures.
The only way to test a piece of gear is under the exact same conditions, same loudspeaker, source, cabling, same room, same time frame.
For this reason the Stereophile recommend Component issue is a joke, do you honestly think that Stereophile has ever has all the Class A amplifiers in the same room at the same time? Or digital or loudspeakers?
Do you honestly think that a pair of Wilson Chronosonic or a pair of Tidal Sunrays, or top Kharmas is not going to be Class A++++? Do you honestly think that most of the products that are Class A are really the best that exist?
Huberto wow that is a fascinating non factual statment:
Before I decided to buy Diablo 300 I audutioned and directly or indirectly (different rooms) compared with it the following amplifiers:
You can’t judge indirectly the sound of one amplifier in one room playing one set of speakers vs another completely different set of speakers playing on different gear.
It sounds like you went to a show and heard a bunch of different rooms or went to a dealer with multiple rooms and listened to different systems.
The only way you can judge the quality of the Gryphon vs any other amplifier is by listening to one on the same set of speakers, and then changing the electronics, warming them up and listening to the same tracks.
By the way the Gryphon is an excellent amplifier, we have heard their gear and the Diablo is a great piece, it is not better than any of the other top level amplifiers you mentioned, such as the T+A or Vitus gear,at this level you will have preferences and the products individual voicing, along with your loudspeakers, digital or analog rig and cabling is going to lead you to the sound of one vs another.
We would agree that the Vitus, T+A and Gryphon are going to sound really fantastic and should sound better than some of the lower level gear the Luxmain 509X is a great amplifier but the Luxman separates at 3 times the price is going to be better, the uber intergrateds sound as good as many separates so that is another duel.
As per the others
Sugden ia4 Leema Tucana 2 Anniversary Bryston pre plus 4b3 and 7bsst2 Musical fidelity nu Vista 800 Ayre ax5 Mark Levinson 585 McIntosh ma8000
all of these are good pieces but not up to that uber level of the Vitus, Gryphon and T+A gears or the Luxman separates, however most of these are $5k or more less expensive so you are not comparing necessarily apples and oranges.
Mikya not doubting it Sim Audio to our ears is a bit on the brighter side the Gryphon warmer and punchier with more layering, however a Vitus or T+A would also have been equally impressive.
Hi, I have PMC fact 12 and recently bought Gryphon Diablo 300 for them. I heard Pmc ib2i and mb2se several times so I know the sound is bigger from these speakers than from the fact 12, tonally they are similar. Before I decided to buy Diablo 300 I audutioned and directly or indirectly (different rooms) compared with it the following amplifiers: Vitus ri100 Avid sigsum T+A pa3100 Luxman l509x Luxman m900u plus c700u Sugden ia4 Leema Tucana 2 Anniversary Bryston pre plus 4b3 and 7bsst2 Musical fidelity nu Vista 800 Ayre ax5 Mark Levinson 585 McIntosh ma8000
Gryphon made sound twice as big as any other amplifier. It was like live music, bas was fantastic, overall presentation was natural but it was not cold, I would say there is a touch of warmth in diablo. Soundstage was trully 3D. Much better than with any other amplifiers. And the control was as good as it gets.
Gryphon outperformed all other amplifiers by miles except luxman m900u combo. This was a fantastic sound. Much warner, full bodied, but not as "real", big and controlled. Gryphon played all kind of music with ease and at least fantastic if not perfect.
I think a lot depends on personal preferences.
3rd place for luxman l509x. This is true value for money amplifier.
I will soon be auditioning the Diablo 300 as everything I’ve tried seperates-wise at that price point (including the Diablo’s DAC module) seems to be missing one thing or another that I am looking for sonically. Based on at least what other’s have said the Diablo in theory should check all the sonic boxes I need checked, and most importantly, people seem to comment on how musically engaging it is. I’ll be auditioning over the next week, and hopefully my high expectations are met or exceeded.
Havn’t heard the 700i but I did take home a demo 600i the other night. Paired with my B&W 803 D2 I found the level of detail astounding. Even my kids noticed sounds they couldn’t hear with other gear. BUT - the sound was also dry, cold, and uninvolving. Sterile. Well defined but not enough bass drive and presence. The opposite of what everyone says about the Diablo. I suspect the 600i is highly accurate. But I found the sound it produced oddly slightly depressing. It made the music not seem special. Admittedly this could be unfair at it may not have been enough power to drive my speakers. But I was testing at moderate to low volumes. I’ve actually had this response to Simaudio preamps / amps in the past, it is really odd. It’s almost as if the sound is so natural at all costs that it seems unnatural. I will say the build quality is second to none. Taking it home and seeing the Simaudio up close was insane. Everything about it is solid. Ive tested McIntosh too - I found it to have a very pleasing smooth and luxurious fully sound with a fully developed midrange but it ultimately uninvolving. I tested the C2500/MC452 in my home. Hoping the Diablo will end my journey when I hear it shortly, and I can go back to enjoying music instead of excruciatingly and endlessly analyzing certain passages of test songs, trying to make sense of and draw conclusions on what I think I’ve perceived, fighting with my own results and questioning the very nature of reality, before finally being satisfied with my conclusions drawn from various auditions. Testing gear is difficult, soul-searching work!
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