Drdavid, I'm not surprised by your outcome and you can simply rotate them at will and appreciate both. As I've written before, I very happily rotate my 3 premium tubes. Charles,
Hi Charles, Wow! I must say that these AVVT32b SL tubes really are something special. They are so captivating and draw you in like no other tubes I've tried. I find them very romantic and a tad warm when I compare them directly to the also wonderful Sophia Royal Princess. Not to take anything away from the RP which I also adore, but in direct comparison, I find the RP a bit faster and more extended in the frequency extremes. Lets not forget I am using both of these beautiful 330b tubes in a bi amp mode driving just the Coincident Pure Reference Extreme monitors and not as full range drivers. They are both gorgeous sounding with IMO, the AVVT sounding a bit more romantic and warm and a laid back with a noticeable edge in the midrange creating a listening experience which is truly magical. Having both of these fantastic tubes creates a situation that leaves me in a great dilemma of which to listen to, as they both draw you in to each of them . I guess that's a good problem to have. One day I will create a bigger problem and spring for the Takatsuki's. David
Hi David, Hey I appreciate your passionate "rant" I can tell you're genuinely impressed with these new power cords.Again you're right as to my priorities, the areas you cite as improved, naturaness, organic character and harmonics are what grab my ears and attention. I'll get these in the near future, I'm likely a Coincident guy for life. The CSL and Franks are so sublime and yet you say that they improve with these cords? Wonderful news.
I didn't have the Sophia RP and AVVT at the same time but both were superb in the Frankensteins. I look forward to your comparison of these two fine tubes. The AVVT 32b SL are relatively rare to find so congratulations to you. With premium 300b tubes and the new cords you must be in a continual state of music lover's bliss. Charles,
Hi Charles Thanks for the info but I was able to order a matched set of AVVT32b SL from Jac Music. I haven't listened to them yet as my new Coincident AC cables are breaking in and I will wait for that to complete to more accurately assess their impact on my system. I am currently using the Sophia Royal Princess on the Franks and think they are excellent quality 300B tubes. Curious how the AVVT compare. What were your findings; as I believe you have experience with the Royal Princess as well? BTW I am so overwhelmed by the new Coincident power cords that I have to tell you again how fantastic they are. I see them as a game changer,...... honestly. They have added a sense of organic refinement that I didn't even sense was missing until it appeared. But its more dramatic than my limited non "audiophile reviewer lexicon" can describe. It really makes the Statement, Franks, and Dragon sound like they were just upgraded to "newer" generation models from their current "previous" model state. It is really that dramatic. I hear details never heard before emerging from very, very dark background. This in turn adds more harmonics which definitely has increased the "natural" factor to goose bump level. There is so much more depth and image specificity as well, which keeps me saying 'Wow" (out loud!) after each cd I listen to . The bass is so much more well controlled (which I thought it was before), that I hear so much more definition and many more notes rather than bass slam or what way be interpreted as a smear in the bass. I sincerely believe based on your passion and your descriptions of what you like and you search for, in terms audio qualities and characteristics , that you of all people would absolutely adore them . Sorry for the long rant but I never had such an inexpensive upgrade have such a dramatic impact and haven't been this excited about any changes in my system since I actually first got into Coincident. Cheers David
Hi Drdavid, These new Coincident power cords are special if they're significantly improve over the previous versions (I know how good those sound). I'll be ordering some eventually. There's a manufacturer who goes by the name Tube wrangler (Dennis Fraker) on the audio asylum SET forum who may still have some AVVT 32b SLtubes available. He builds the Serious Stereo 2A3 SET amplifiers.406 -222 -9229. I bought a pair from Dennis last year and they were in excellent condition and sound the same. Charles,
Hi Charles And Bill. Good and bad news. First the good news .After breaking in the new Extreme CST powercords for only about 72 hours they are already showing how wonderful they are. I added them to my Frankensteins and Dragons and cd player after auditioning it for a few days on my Coincident Statement linestage. I figured if its impact was that noticeable on the linestage then I had to see what system synergy would provide. In a nutshell , it does everything Coincident does well , but even better. More organic better harmonics ,more natural. I don't think Israel would make a new product like this if he wasn't sure it would be a substantial improvement over the previous one. Substantial it was. The noise floor improvement accounts ,I believe based on what I hear, for the improvement. The background is dead quiet which is why there are so many more ambient and non ambient clues and harmonic information that is now easily heard that together allow for an even more natural real sound. As natural and organic sounding as my system was before, it iseven more so now. Now the bad. After much excitement and anticipation to hear such highly regarded and sought after AVVT 300b SL tubes, unfortunately ,one tube appeared to be damaged or defective! They visually appeared perfect but when I remove one of them from the box I heard a rattle, like something was loose inside . There was actually what appeared to be a 1mm round piece of solder or other metal piece floating around inside. These tubes btw look very well built and solid. I felt it wise not even to try to see if they would work in order to avoid any possible amplifier damage. As I have heard of the possibility of a short occurring I was not willing to risk it. Too bad as I was so excited to hear these tubes. I contacted the supplier and they were willing to refund my purchase price. Wow I don't know if I will ever be able to find a set of those tubes again. I would appreciate if anyone can let me know where to source a pair of AVVT 300b SL or the AVVT 32b SL.
Hi Bill,Charles I still haven't received the AAVT tubes yet , but should hopefully have them by the weekend and will let you know. It will be interesting to compare them to the Sophia Royal Princess I should however be getting seven more of the new Coincident Extreme pcs tomorrow afternoon,and can't wait to hear their impact.
Drdavid, That's quite an endorsement for the new power cords. I have the standard Coincident cords and find them exceptionally good. I used a loaned pair of Sophia RP in my Frankensteins for 2 weeks and they're very good tubes no doubt. I also use the AVVT 32SL and the EML XLS both are excellent as well. Curious ascto how you find the RP vs the AVVT, good tubes but different sound. Charles,
Hi Charles. Yes, much more than I actually expected. As natural and transparent as the CSLS is, I sincerely found this new PC a game changer. Also when you consider the price,it astonishing to be able to get such a leap in performance, of an already outstanding linestage,for such a relatively tiny investment. For me, the improvement was instantaneous and very obvious right out of the box. And it is still not finished breaking in! I have ordered more PCs for my Dragons and Franks and I am really looking forward to the synergistic improvements that I should experience. BTW I switched my Black Bottle Psvanes on the Franks for the Royal Princess , which I thought was a very nice improvement. Not that the BB Psvanes were bad, I actually think they are very good for the money, but the Sophias just did things a bit better. I actually kept the BB but moved then to my Dragons ,driving the Pure Reference Extreme subs, and was a bit surprised on how they improved the subs, being that on the Dragons the 300b are not the output tubes.
I recently was able to source a matched pair of AVVT 300b SL and really look forward to hearing a tube with such a great reputation and lineage. Regards, David
I wasn't unhappy at all with my current Coincident power cords but I just tried Coincident's newest Extreme power cord and couldn't resist expressing my views. This, like other Coincident products, is a remarkable breakthrough in PC's. The new one is made using OCC copper and different geometry. It is noticeably thicker in diameter and a bit stiffer than the previous model. More importantly is the sound. The noise floor is so much lower , than a previously already very low noise floor (with the earlier CSR Extreme PC's), that the inner details and fine nuances of recordings that give ambient clues and information become more revealed that it is actually uncanny. The dynamics and leading edges appear to ERUPT from total blackness. This cable is highly recommended and has had one of the biggest impacts on my sound system than anything I've change in the last few years. This is based on only a single pc change on my Coincident Statement Linestage. I will now replace all my CST extreme with these new ones and cant wait to hear how the Frankensteins and Dragons improve .No doubt the synergy will be incredibly impressive. Kudos to Mr. Blume......Again!
Kudos to Sablon Audio! I have been listening to the new version Gran Corona power cords on my Coincident Dragons and I'm hearing at least a 40-50% improvement. I didn't know how flat and asleep my stereo sounded until I began using these power cords 2 days ago. The music now has so much depth and dimension. Lots more weight and authority too. The added weight and authority makes the music sound more realistic and natural sounding. I'm shocked at the huge jump in performance I'm getting from these power cables. Previously I was using Audience Powerchords, which are an excellent all around cables, but the Sablons are in a different league, not even close. I also have one powering my dac and it also gave it a big jump in performance.
I highly recommend trying these Sablon power cables.
Erdog, I don't have the Dragon amps but if they're re anything like their siblings the Frankenstein MK II they'll be very uncolored and superbly transparent. You'll definitely hear everything upstream in your system, even the tiny changes. You are right to address the source and get that to your full satisfaction Charles, .
Charles, That's right. When I tried the MHDT Stockholm dac, I came closer to hearing what I was missing. So I decided to keep the Dragons. As mentioned already, the Dragons are true to the source.
The MHDT is still not quite where I want it to be yet. I think the ultimate dac for me would sound in the middle of what the QuteHD offers and the Stockholm.
The QuteHD has this amazing liquidity that is smooth & organic, but also ALIVE sounding, with lots of detail that isn't digital sounding.
The stock Stockholm has more warmth and rounded edges. It also has surprisingly great detail. I could hear mico details that I didn't notice with the QuteHD. It doesn't have that Alive sound that the QuteHD has and instead has a pleasing warmth that makes everything sound good. The down side is that it lacks the clarity and dynamics that the QuteHD has. I call it too wooly.
My sub is in the shop getting repaired. I decided to keep the Dragons and I'm trying a different dac to bring more organic warmth. I've now got an MHDT Stockholm that is delivering this in spades, maybe a little too much. I think I can tweak the MHDT to tailor the sound and will likely be selling the Chord QuteHD soon.
It seems the subwoofer contributes significantly to your system`s performance,so step one is to get that fixed. I`ve haven`t read complaints about the Dragons`s bass before.Could simply be your speaker is better matched with a SS amplifier or you may just prefer the sound of SS to tubes. Regards,
Update: I upgraded the tubes on my Dragon to Psvane 300B and Psvane 211's and it was a nice improvement.
The external power supply for my Chord QuteHD dac was also a great improvement. The external power supply added more weight and smoothed out the top end so that it no longer had a bite.
My Fathom F110 sub blew out its amp, so my system has been limping along, until I can get that repaired. Lately I'm noticing that I miss the weight, bass and wallop of my Pass Labs XA30.5. I was thinking about selling the Dragons and buying another XA30.5, or getting the XA60.5 mono blocks, or trying out a Luxman M-600a.
In an effort to improve my situation I bought a Sablon Audio Uber Robusto power cord and I have to say I'm impressed by it. It adds more bass weight and dimensionality.
Here's what I concluded so far: I definitely need to get my sub repaired as this could be a big part of the problem of my recent desire for more weight, bass and wallop. I'd also like to hear what it would sound like to have these Sablons power my Dragons. This could help too. I could test this out easily because my friend has a Sablon and I could ask to try it. Bottom line is that after getting my sub fixed and trying the warm sounding Sablon power cords, if I'm still missing the weight, bass and wallop then I'll have to seriously consider selling the Dragons.
Yes, I heard the Black Shadows at 213Cobras a few weekends back. It was an enlightening two visits over two weekends. We listened and compared the Melody M845's to the Audion's. We also had a Pre-amp shoot out, and listened to the Druid V's and the Def's. It was quite a blast.
I would agree with your assessment of the Black Shadows as lightning fast, with a very holographic sound stage. And the most impressive atribute, was their "shove" as Phil likes to call it which I have not yet found the words to express in any other way! It was similar to the "shove" of the Joule Electra Mono Blocks that a friend uses (but the Joules are very noisy and not as warm).
Yes, although I never had them both at the same time, plus I was only able to listen to the Black Shadows for a short time. It was after listening to them, that stimulated me to purchase tube mono blocks because they sounded so damn good. Easily better than my Pass XA30.5 amp. The only short coming was that the Black Shadows weren't a proper match for my speakers (Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system). My speakers needed more juice to really shine and this was only apparent with demanding/powerful classical music passages.
I don't have this problem with the Dragons which put out 80 wpc. The Black Shadows put out a tad more warmth than the Dragons, which I really like. Both are lightening fast and have excellent separation. I wish I could say more, but like I said I only had them briefly and they weren't paired with the right speakers.
Morgan, Have you had a chance to listen to the Black Shadows?
Hi Ernie, The Def IV's are stunning! I've only heard a small percentage of their potential as I'm literally rebuilding my entire system from the ground up including a new listening room in a new home. As soon as I have them good to go I would love to have you over for a visit. Cheers, Morgan
Hi Ernie, The best 300's (Best value for sure) that I used in my Franks were the original Shuguang Black Treasures and I found them to be warm and very engaging. They were fantastic and for the price a very good tube. To better it, I needed the EML Mesh 300's.
I'm really enjoying the QuteHD DSD dac paired with the Off Ramp 4. Sounds very full, robust and organic with excellent imaging. The OR4 adds more weight and clarity. Everything sounds more focused and I didn't know there was so much smearing going on. I'm convinced that a high quality USB converter is a necessity for computer audio. This combination is closer to what I'm looking for versus what I was hearing with the Overdrive alone.
My only complaint is that on some recording with female vocalists, the treble sounds a bit hot. I'm hoping to address this by adding an external power supply to the QuteHD. It comes with a cheap wall wart. I ordered a decent one from MCRU here: http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/514-chord-qutehd-linear-power-supply.html It's coming from the UK and I'm in the USA, so it'll arrive next week. More to come then....
Another solution might be warming up the sound from the Dragons. If I wanted a warm sounding 300b tube, which would you recommend?
Erndog, Your approach to get the source nailed down is right.If you go the Coincident route you`ll hear the essential character of the source component very clearly.Jimmy is right, the Coincident electronics and speakers are quite neutral(relatively speaking).My DAC is the Yamamoto YDA and it is rather organic and full tone/body but also transparent and very nuanced.The Coincident chain of equitment doesn`t alter that fundamental character as the signal travels downstream.So your plan is correct,choose your front end source carefully to achieve the overall sound you want. Regards,
Thanks for both of your observations and experience about this. It is giving more to think about for sure.
This whole experience has led me to the conclusion that my Overdrive SE dac leans more on the detailed side of the spectrum. I prefer an organic sound. So when I paired up the Druids with the Dragons with the Overdrive dac, there was nothing in the chain giving it any warmth. So I'm taking a different approach. I ordered a Chord QuteHD dac along with a fully loaded Off-Ramp 4 usb converter. This dac is known to produce a more organic tone while still maintaining detail. We'll see which dac is a better fit for my rig.
It feels important for me to really get my source nailed down, so that I absolutely love it and that it produces the most realistic music. I don't like an overly warm, euphonic presentation either. I prefer the warm side of neutral. This whole business of component matching is such a delicate matter to get it right.
On a side note, I was able to get on a Power conditioner tour on Audiocircle website which should be coming next week: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=114616.0. Right now I'm using a Running Springs Haley, which I'm very satisfied with. I used a PS Audio Quintet before that and had mixed feelings about it. The Haley was a no brainer right when I plugged it in.
Erndog, Just to be fair, those who are familiar with the Zu line say the DEF MK IV is a significant improvement. I'm not sure if you can attribute a common house sound or not (I haven't heard them). Germanboxers found the Zu - Frankenstein match to sound very well.But as you acknowledged, different system and ears. In terms of the Coincident speakers I find them to sound as impressive as their electronics and as one would anticipate work wonderfully together. Of course I haven't heard every model but I did I hear the Pure Reference and my Total Eclipse and can say the match is excellent. I'm not familiar with the Victory models that utilize a ribbon tweeter.Coincident speakers are very transparent, open and quite uncolored.For the most part, you will just hear the character of the source and electronics just as jimmy has described before in other posts. I'd say the overall sound of my system is organic and just a bit to the warmer side of dead center neutral.Tone is adequately saturated with a full bodied sound and much harmonic preservation if that helps you get a feel for their sound with my particular components. Regards,
I've been listening to the Druids for 4 days now and thought I'd share some quick impressions.
I found them to sound revealing, transparent, neutral, open, fast, lean and sometimes strident on the top end with some cd's. These weren't a synergistic match for my system. Music sounded too hifi and sterile. My Tyler Acoustic Linbrooks system speakers sounded warm in comparison, which is a better match with my electronics. In my friend's rig the same Druids sound totally blissful and amazingly good! It's all about careful system matching and synergy. This was a fun experiment.
Do Coincident speakers have a similar sound to Zu speakers?
Germanboxers' s description of the Frankenstein driving the Zu DEF IV is eerily similar to them driving my Coincident speakers.A very natural large scale sound and very balanced across the frequency spectrum. It produces more volume than I need in my generous size room.The tone and timbre are full and realistic, the sense of flesh and blood presence is striking. I'm not surprised at the exceptional synergy Germanboxers is experiencing and the quality of the bass he's hearing.Both the Franks and Atma-Sphere have low noise floors,are very transparent, clear and fast(like Germanboxers I've heard them compared in someone's system).The Franks tend toward fuller and the Atma-Sphere toward a bit leaner sound(matter of preference and system matching).The Frankenstein is very revealing of nuance and the true emotion and expression of the music(what some would call holistic).
My speaker isn't as sensitive as his Zu DEFs (101db vs 94db) but the Coincident is a very easy to drive load (piece of cake for the Dragons) and the Frankenstein seems to coast with them.IMO either Coincident amplifier will be superb with either brand of speakers. You won't go wrong with these choices. Regards,
I have both the Zu Definition Mk4 and the Druid Mk4-8 ( last model before Druid Mk5 came out late last year). I can speak to the differences between the two as well as the effects of amps. I've had the Coincident Frankenstein Mk2 powering the Definitions now for about 1 week and I've done a lot listening in this week. I've used the Atma-Sphere M60's and Clayton M200's as well.
The difference between the Druid and Definition, even the earlier Definition Mk 1.5 and Mk1.9, is large. Still, the Druid properly set up is competitive with many more expensive speakers. It brings the rich tone, coherency, and dynamic ease (macro and micro) that Zu is known for. The Definition's, in comparison, sound more "alive", more dynamic, present a larger soundstage with a little less image focus, and more resolved inner detail. The Mk 4's are really special.
To my surprise, the Coincident Frankenstein Mk2 drive the Definition Mk4's wonderfully in my open 6000 ft^3 listening room. Unless you listen regularly at really high SPL's, I can't imagine needing more than the Franks on the Definition Mk4. At natural to quite loud volume levels, they are alive, dynamic and nuanced. Bass is surprisingly as good or better than my M60's. It is easier to follow the bass line in complex music and is just as textured. It is not solid state "tight", but I don't find that realistic anyway. If the instrument produced a "tight" low frequency sound, the Franks present it that way.
On the Definition's or the Druid's, the Dragons wouldn't break a sweat at insane volume levels. Given the easy drivability of the Coincident speakers, I doubt either the Franks, and certainly not the Dragons, would struggle at all.
Update: The modded Placette XLR/RCA cable arrived yesterday and I heard an immediate improvement when I used the XLR outputs from the Overdrive dac going straight into the Dragons. Right now, I'm very pleased with the sound I'm getting from my computer audio rig. This sounds 100 x's better than my old cd player rig. I was using a Modwright tube Oppo 83.
Today a friend is going to be letting me borrow his Zu Druid speakers (not sure which Mark) and I'm very curious how they will sound with my Coincident Dragons. I've been using Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature System for the past 4 years and have grown attached to them. I also use a JL Audio 10" sub to help fill in the last octave of the low end. I'm excited about hearing what Zu speakers have to offer. I've been fantasizing the idea of getting new speakers and have been contemplating the Coincident Super Victory II or the Zu Definition Mk IV. Auditioning the Druid will certainly help with this decision.
Jimmy , I think Israel is going to have sucess with both of this new amplifiers. Knowing him, he won't offer something for sale unless he's satisfied with the sound.I suspect the 845 integrated will provide true top level performance at a obtainable price and be able to drive moderately efficient speakers. This amplifier weights 100 pounds, The transformers and power supply are likely very high quality and over specified as is his habit. Regards,
I couln't agree more. The Promethius is a champ at its price point but the CSL offers a lot more, as it should for 2x the price. But I have to say, I think the CSL is so good that it also is an outstanding value at its price point. Imaging with the CSL is just amazing.
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