Roger that, but that is not what I was asking about. Can you offer any relevant information about the sonic differences between the MK I and the MK II versions? |
Thanks for the info.
I ended up getting the Dragon MK I. It does some things better than the Pass Labs XA30.5 and the Pass did some things better. So it is a mixed bag.
The pass has better bass, sounds fuller, and has more weight or umphff to it.
The Dragon has better separation, more 3D, and very smooth, which I really like. However, it sounds a little thin compared to the pass amp. As a result it has less bass drive.
Any advice on how I can tweak the Dragons so they produce more weight to the music?
Thanks,
Ernie |
Well, after listening more, I have some different thoughts about it. I've come to the conclusion that the Dragons are not thin sounding. They are very neutral sounding. Whereas the Pass amp was warmer sounding and in my opinion has a slight upper bass hump.
So what I'm experiencing sounds like something is missing because my brain is used to hearing more warmth and bass. I just need to relax and adjust to the new sound :)
I also want to add that I love bass. The low end is very important to me, probably more so than most people. I find that solid bass helps with adding a foundation to the music.
I have tried upgrading the 211 tubes over the stock ones. I just installed some new Psvane 211-T tubes and I heard an instant improvement. So that is a move in the right direction. I also have a JL Audio Fathom 10" sub which helps too.
For power, I'm using Pangea AC-9 power cords, which I find are an excellent value. I'll check into the Coincident power cords.
I'm not sure if switching out the 300B tube could help. It came with the EH Golden 300B. Israel recommends the 300B Black Bottles. Is this the same as the Shuguang Treasure? Would this be an improvement over the EH I'm using?
Thanks for helping me get my Dragons dialed in.
Ernie |
More updates....
Last night, I swapped out the Pangea power cords and tried some Audience powerchords and this was a very nice improvement. The soundstage got bigger and the Dragons sounded more open. This was not a subtle improvement.
I'm using the dragons with no preamp. I'm going direct from the Empirical Audio Overdrive dac into the mono blocks. My source is a 2011 Macbook Pro laptop, using Amarra version 4318 (this is the version Steve at Empirical recommends). For the USB cable, I'm using an inexpensive Belkin Gold.
So far my biggest grumble with the Dragons is that they don't have XLR inputs. My dac sounds significantly better using the XLR outs versus the RCA outs. As an experiment, I'm getting my Placette XLR cables modded to have RCA connectors on one end. We'll see what that does.
Also a friend of mine just read this thread and offered me to try out his Sophia Princess 300B's tubes! (Thanks Scott) I'll let you all know how these Sophia's sound in the Dragon. |
I'm really enjoying getting this amp dialed in. So far everything I've done has produced a good result.
For whatever reason, I don't hear much about the 6EM7 input tube for the Dragon. Are people rolling this one too? I'm not sure how much of an impact this tube makes. Mine came with some NOS Sylvanias. |
I would love to hear an all Coincident system. I'm sure the system synergy adds to it. I live in Ashland, Oregon so I'm going to have to miss the New York show.
I got the Sophia Electric Carbon 300B tubes from a friend and plan to give them a whirl tomorrow. |
Shoot, one of the Sophias created a flash, a pop, then made this screeching sound out of the speakers. I quickly turned the amp off. This has happened before with previous tube gear and It always scares the crap out of me. So it's obviously a dead tube :( |
Great, I'm looking forward to it.
Cheers,
Ernie |
Update: The modded Placette XLR/RCA cable arrived yesterday and I heard an immediate improvement when I used the XLR outputs from the Overdrive dac going straight into the Dragons. Right now, I'm very pleased with the sound I'm getting from my computer audio rig. This sounds 100 x's better than my old cd player rig. I was using a Modwright tube Oppo 83.
Today a friend is going to be letting me borrow his Zu Druid speakers (not sure which Mark) and I'm very curious how they will sound with my Coincident Dragons. I've been using Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature System for the past 4 years and have grown attached to them. I also use a JL Audio 10" sub to help fill in the last octave of the low end. I'm excited about hearing what Zu speakers have to offer. I've been fantasizing the idea of getting new speakers and have been contemplating the Coincident Super Victory II or the Zu Definition Mk IV. Auditioning the Druid will certainly help with this decision. |
My sub is in the shop getting repaired. I decided to keep the Dragons and I'm trying a different dac to bring more organic warmth. I've now got an MHDT Stockholm that is delivering this in spades, maybe a little too much. I think I can tweak the MHDT to tailor the sound and will likely be selling the Chord QuteHD soon. |
I've been listening to the Druids for 4 days now and thought I'd share some quick impressions.
I found them to sound revealing, transparent, neutral, open, fast, lean and sometimes strident on the top end with some cd's. These weren't a synergistic match for my system. Music sounded too hifi and sterile. My Tyler Acoustic Linbrooks system speakers sounded warm in comparison, which is a better match with my electronics. In my friend's rig the same Druids sound totally blissful and amazingly good! It's all about careful system matching and synergy. This was a fun experiment.
Do Coincident speakers have a similar sound to Zu speakers? |
Thanks for both of your observations and experience about this. It is giving more to think about for sure.
This whole experience has led me to the conclusion that my Overdrive SE dac leans more on the detailed side of the spectrum. I prefer an organic sound. So when I paired up the Druids with the Dragons with the Overdrive dac, there was nothing in the chain giving it any warmth. So I'm taking a different approach. I ordered a Chord QuteHD dac along with a fully loaded Off-Ramp 4 usb converter. This dac is known to produce a more organic tone while still maintaining detail. We'll see which dac is a better fit for my rig.
It feels important for me to really get my source nailed down, so that I absolutely love it and that it produces the most realistic music. I don't like an overly warm, euphonic presentation either. I prefer the warm side of neutral. This whole business of component matching is such a delicate matter to get it right.
On a side note, I was able to get on a Power conditioner tour on Audiocircle website which should be coming next week: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=114616.0. Right now I'm using a Running Springs Haley, which I'm very satisfied with. I used a PS Audio Quintet before that and had mixed feelings about it. The Haley was a no brainer right when I plugged it in. |
I'm really enjoying the QuteHD DSD dac paired with the Off Ramp 4. Sounds very full, robust and organic with excellent imaging. The OR4 adds more weight and clarity. Everything sounds more focused and I didn't know there was so much smearing going on. I'm convinced that a high quality USB converter is a necessity for computer audio. This combination is closer to what I'm looking for versus what I was hearing with the Overdrive alone.
My only complaint is that on some recording with female vocalists, the treble sounds a bit hot. I'm hoping to address this by adding an external power supply to the QuteHD. It comes with a cheap wall wart. I ordered a decent one from MCRU here: http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/514-chord-qutehd-linear-power-supply.html
It's coming from the UK and I'm in the USA, so it'll arrive next week. More to come then....
Another solution might be warming up the sound from the Dragons. If I wanted a warm sounding 300b tube, which would you recommend?
Thanks,
Ernie |
Thanks Morgan.
On a side note, how are your new Zu Def 4's sounding these days?
Ernie |
Yes, although I never had them both at the same time, plus I was only able to listen to the Black Shadows for a short time. It was after listening to them, that stimulated me to purchase tube mono blocks because they sounded so damn good. Easily better than my Pass XA30.5 amp. The only short coming was that the Black Shadows weren't a proper match for my speakers (Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system). My speakers needed more juice to really shine and this was only apparent with demanding/powerful classical music passages.
I don't have this problem with the Dragons which put out 80 wpc. The Black Shadows put out a tad more warmth than the Dragons, which I really like. Both are lightening fast and have excellent separation. I wish I could say more, but like I said I only had them briefly and they weren't paired with the right speakers.
Morgan, Have you had a chance to listen to the Black Shadows? |
Update: I upgraded the tubes on my Dragon to Psvane 300B and Psvane 211's and it was a nice improvement.
The external power supply for my Chord QuteHD dac was also a great improvement. The external power supply added more weight and smoothed out the top end so that it no longer had a bite.
My Fathom F110 sub blew out its amp, so my system has been limping along, until I can get that repaired. Lately I'm noticing that I miss the weight, bass and wallop of my Pass Labs XA30.5. I was thinking about selling the Dragons and buying another XA30.5, or getting the XA60.5 mono blocks, or trying out a Luxman M-600a.
In an effort to improve my situation I bought a Sablon Audio Uber Robusto power cord and I have to say I'm impressed by it. It adds more bass weight and dimensionality.
Here's what I concluded so far: I definitely need to get my sub repaired as this could be a big part of the problem of my recent desire for more weight, bass and wallop. I'd also like to hear what it would sound like to have these Sablons power my Dragons. This could help too. I could test this out easily because my friend has a Sablon and I could ask to try it. Bottom line is that after getting my sub fixed and trying the warm sounding Sablon power cords, if I'm still missing the weight, bass and wallop then I'll have to seriously consider selling the Dragons. |
Charles,
That's right. When I tried the MHDT Stockholm dac, I came closer to hearing what I was missing. So I decided to keep the Dragons. As mentioned already, the Dragons are true to the source.
The MHDT is still not quite where I want it to be yet. I think the ultimate dac for me would sound in the middle of what the QuteHD offers and the Stockholm.
The QuteHD has this amazing liquidity that is smooth & organic, but also ALIVE sounding, with lots of detail that isn't digital sounding.
The stock Stockholm has more warmth and rounded edges. It also has surprisingly great detail. I could hear mico details that I didn't notice with the QuteHD. It doesn't have that Alive sound that the QuteHD has and instead has a pleasing warmth that makes everything sound good. The down side is that it lacks the clarity and dynamics that the QuteHD has. I call it too wooly.
I hope to get this part nailed down soon. |
Kudos to Sablon Audio! I have been listening to the new version Gran Corona power cords on my Coincident Dragons and I'm hearing at least a 40-50% improvement. I didn't know how flat and asleep my stereo sounded until I began using these power cords 2 days ago. The music now has so much depth and dimension. Lots more weight and authority too. The added weight and authority makes the music sound more realistic and natural sounding. I'm shocked at the huge jump in performance I'm getting from these power cables. Previously I was using Audience Powerchords, which are an excellent all around cables, but the Sablons are in a different league, not even close. I also have one powering my dac and it also gave it a big jump in performance.
I highly recommend trying these Sablon power cables. |
