Classical Music for Aficionados

This same spiralling moving beat is for me the life of jazz too...

Musical genres matter less than the way this flowing oceanic tempo command even time...

This is what i listen too...Not mere sound...

This beating heart is the origin of music and time and life itself and even of numbers primes distribution...

When the beat circle and progress at the same time it is a SPIRALLING ENCOMPASSING   movement...

An increasing  irrepressible beat and pulse growing which command time itself...

Life is this increasing pulse...

it is the reason why time obey music and music dont obey time but command it...

We can listen to it in one of the most powerful piece of music ever written OR like in the pygmies songs...Or like in the yoruba talking drums under this post...

Music is not sound but what is behind sound: Life asciension  itself....

The ears /brain know not much about music, the heart/body know more...

Music is a social integration of all individuals in some rythmic union with Nature... Language comes from music in this sense...

Furtwangler know that because his direction infaillibly express this eternal TEMPO flying over all smaller one beat in any musical work he ever directed...

Alain Connes Fields medal in mathematics just registered a sequence of the imprevisible beat of the creation manifested through the prime numbers distributions...

Time obey music not the reverse...Connes say studying Hilbert spaces that the source of an irrepressible flows of variations and novelty richer than time and at the source of time is this  UNIVERSAL potential BEAT related to the prime distribution...

Why do you think american Indian and pygmys dance to call for the rain?

Superstition or higher consciousness ?

Guess what is the right answer... 😁😊

Furtwangler music call for the soul like some call for the rain, it is the same UNIVERSAL beat for the rain and the soul......

«My soul flow with the rain»-Anonymus poet

«There is only one beat for love and it is the right one each time »-Anonymus poet

«Musical discourse is infallible all around the earth, be it european or a pygmies dance , because music is God speak at the origin of language itself» -Anonymus poet

Thanks to the work in non commutative geometry of alain Connes we can guess now how music and numbers can be related to God spoken language...

thanks to pygmies or Furtwangler we can feel it without studying mathematics... 😁😊

the relation between these 2 extreme apparent different musical expression is this:

TIME OBEY MUSIC not the reverse...

In any music feel the universal tempo behind all beats...It is God spoken words...

Music is about cosmos secret not about taste...

Our various tastes are like the various religions only a road to the same peak experience: love and unity...

You are right about that, because geniuses are the one that pointed to the direction of love and freedom...it takes time but i am optimist even now in desesperate times...

my best to you....

I love Russian music but most of it was written in terrible times and made little to

the culture of Russia . Out of 350 millions in US perhaps 2 % even know Ives’s name .

I like music because it lifts me , Bach made me a different man but did nothing

to stop Hitler even though he got only 28% vote in Berlin .

The same is close to here , very close .

 

I love Russian music but most of it was written in terrible times and made little to

the culture of  Russia .  Out  of 350 millions in US  perhaps 2 % even know Ives's  name .

I like music because it lifts  me  , Bach made me a different man but did nothing

to stop Hitler even though he got only 28% vote  in Berlin .

The same is close to here , very close . 

I am glad that you agree with me about peace and reason which are the most necessary things we must wish for...

I will agree totally with your observation about GREED and will add thirst for power to the mix ...

I accept what you say with your words that nobody tried to bully me...

I cannot apologize for Russian music links though because i love Russian music and culture like i love Charles Ives the contemporary of Scriabin...

This was my first post above, about these two contemporary geniuses which are expression of pure freedom in their two musical journey, before this "malentendu".... Charles Ives the american and Scriabin the Russian were brothers who dont know oner another separated by an ocean, but their art exploring the frontier between tonal/atonal among other common factors was their common endeavour...

I wish you the best....

We’ve had it for a thousand years and little or nothing good has come from the 90% . Just because you or I love it means nothing to our rulers , always has, always will. One word is supreme , GREED . Nobody is trying to bully you .

We’ve had it for a thousand years and little or nothing good has come from the 90% . Just because you or I love it means nothing to our rulers , always has, always will. One word is supreme , GREED .

Nobody is trying to bully you . 

Because we need peace and reason, and not hate or propaganda...

I will suggest an interesting piece of choral music...

He was the first Russian composer appointed to the Tsar court in 1779  for music after studying in Italia...

His music is an ocean of grace and novelty , a perfect cross between italian splendour and Orthodox interiority....

I put the version here i like the most:

Dont put the pathetic claim you wrote what you wrote because you dont listen youtube here where you haunted all youtube suggestions and comment them ...

Dont put excuse and pretense in the place of apology and dont claim to the " truth" for yourself and everyone ...

And dont excuse yourself or someone like the other Jim about an act which is irrational like bannning Russian music and promoting hate ...

"so be aware i list the truth as i see it and if you dont like it then as they say in Quebec "that’s EASY"....Swallow it...

No more comment...

@mahgister I certainly do not insinuate I tell it as it is and if that is in one sentence then that is the way I am so please do not chide me for that. I do not partake in your musical contributions because I do not like You Tube clips because the quality is awful and also because some of the people the people you choose to highlight are not the type of people I care to listen to and if I did respond you would then be saying that I am getting at you for listing it. So be aware I list the truth as I see it and if you do not like it then as they say over here in Scotland "That’s tough"

   @mahgister I certainly do not insinuate I tell it as it is and if that is in one sentence then that is the way I am so please do not chide me for that. I do not partake in your musical contributions because I do not like You Tube clips because the quality is awful and also because some of the people the people you choose to highlight are not the type of people I care to listen to and if I did respond you would then be saying that I am getting at you for listing it. So be aware I list the truth as I see it and if you do not like it then as they say over here in Scotland "That's tough"

Can't believe I did not spell SOLDIER correctly.

Cheers

On the opposite i like discussion...but you never answer to my musical choices post... you wanted to BULLY me and BAN my posts...And bully everyone who are not a fanatic...

But  we  cannot discuss with someone who throw one sentence insinuations , for example: pacifism as synonym to be a traitor...

Then truth is the opposite of what you say , it is you who insinuate or bully in one line sentence instead of discussing...Anyway stupid assertion like the ban of an entire culture cannot be discussed rationally for sure...Then insinuations are your tool...

And here it is a MUSICAL thread...Like i said ask others people and if they think like you two about me and Russian composers i will be glad to go out DEFINITIVELY of this thread... But speaking is easier than walking the words...Insinuating easier than speaking rationally...

Then i will correct YOU..

SOMEONE HERE DONT LIKE TO BE BULLY...for the stupidest reason especially... The nusic of Scriabin or Feinberg has nothing to do with this war at all...

Any children can understand that... Why not you?

Dont answer, any mature mind can also know why....

I am polite and i like to discuss but bully me and i will answer...

@jim5559 Someone doesn’t like being spoken back to eh Len.

Americans seem to think that history starts when they arrive, or  become aware of,  or have some interest in an area of the world.

As I have said before, there are no good guys in Eastern Europe.

Stalin created a man-made famine in the early 30's that killed around 6 million in Ukraine.  I can see why there is no love lost there.

In the early part of the invasion by Hitler, the folks in Ukraine greeted the Nazi as heroes / liberators.  Helped in the round-up of the Jews.  Even the SS complained about their brutality being 'messy'.

Ukrainians provided a significant percentage of guards at Nazi concentration / death camps.  Goggle "John Demjanjuk".

Quite a few Ukrainians were captured fighting for the Germans in Normandy during D-Day.

My point is,  things are complicated.  Americans don't like complicated or shades of gray.  We like everything in Black and white.

Of course it's always good to see the Russians getting their rear ends kicked.

Again, Ain't no good guys in eastern Europe.  Certainly no one worth the life of even one American solider.

Cheers

Right after the Orange Revolution (2005) in Ukraine, I arrived in Odessa along the Black Sea. I stayed for three weeks with a girlfriend. I saw the Ukrainian State Ballet perform Giselle and Sleeping Beauty. The beautiful thing was that they used a sizable pit orchestra rather than recorded music to accompany the ballet. I also saw a variety show featuring different classical pianists along with a female Bandura ensemble at the Philharmonic Hall.

There is great pride in Ukrainian culture and it is very upsetting to see what is happening. No longer being in contact with friends and loved ones is very difficult. However, Dimitri Shostakovich has nothing to do with Vladimir Putin or the Russian invasion, so I opt to listen to Russian music as an act of defiance if nothing else. If there is a contemporary Russian composer who sides politically with Vladimir Putin, then I will refuse to listen to that composers work.

This is my last discovery...

Very surprising synthesis of orient and occident cultural trends..

This composer Tan Dun is very gifted because he integrated, china and classical european musical influence with Nature and musical discourse exploration...

I am very glad and enthusiastic about this quatuor...

No "deja vu" here....

He present his work and after near 7 minutes it begins....

I dont understand why it is your "hate" that must dictate my musical choices HERE in this thread...This is my reality: a musical thread about different cultures...

Now, not only you speak your mind but you want to bully people... i dont think i am the only one who love music from Russia HERE or any other countries you may decide you dont like.....By the way i listen music from China too....

One thing is sure, i despise censorship and propaganda of any kind...

If you dont like my musical choices stay where you are yourself...

Are you a concious being?

Accusing others is not my way of communication and bullying them either...

You are NOTHING more than me HERE...

You dont have to decide where i will go...Nor deciding like some policeman who will say what or who will be silent about ANY composers from any country... Is it clearer?

Banning Rachmaninov or Stravinsky is not a solution to political problem or a solution to war especially in a musical thread...

But i am stupid to speak to you it seems about common sense...

BUT I DONT ACCEPT TO BE BULLIED....

But i am a democrat: take a referendum and i will go out of this thread if the majority of contributors here are formed in the same mold as you , and if they all want to ban Russia from musical history...If not, you MUST go out yourself if you are a man of your words...

If you don’t like realty then stay where you are .

If you don't like realty then stay where you are .

This is my favorite version...

Hamelin is very good for sure too...

But i begin my Feinberg journey with this one very good interpretation too, where the touch is less cerebral than Hamelin so great he is....

Anyway we all need spiritual understanding now ....

We can defend ourself without hating and without using propaganda...

I dont like hating condemnation of CULTURES...Russian or American one here...

Biden is not America nor Putin is Russia...

I reacted to an insane remark about my musical post...

I like russian school of piano...

And i dont like to be intimidated...

I dont have the intention to ban Russian Samuil Feinberg from here , one of my favorite piano sonatas ... Period ...

Feinberg was a disciple of the great Scriabin and his 12 sonatas are spiritual journey where the piano vertically  spoke and not only sing horizintally  like in poetry...

I was in shock when i listened to him the first time few years ago... I cannot imagine someone composing at the level of Scriabin... I was wrong...

😁😊

I wonder if the pacifists would be interested if the Russians came up their street and kicked their door down !!!

«True warrior act without hate»- Anonymus gladiator

Listening to Dohnanyi's Symphony no. 1 on the much loved and lamented Telarc label.  Leon Botstein (not Leonard Bernstein!) conducting the LPO.  Lovely music, and the soundstage here is arrayed from speaker to speaker.  This tells me my system is telling me how different recordings are engineered, as some trio sonatas I was listening to recently sounded quite clustered towards the center.

Yes 5559 you stay out of politics because politics is how Russia invaded Ukraine and hardly anybody is interested now. I wonder if the pacifists would be interested if the Russians came up their street and kicked their door down !!!

Would they pick up a gun and start shooting at the invaders like the Afghans didn't do when the Taliban surrounded Kabul ?

Sod it Len Don't let them get you down mate. Best Jim.

mahgister , Music in a land with no soul will want Music with no soul.by at least

90 % of the people .

Sorry but if i used the same stick as you to judge others there will be a problem...

I will stick to Jesus parable about the Straw and the Beam...

And i dont like to be intimidated in my taste for culture especially if this culture is a great one..

Stay out of politic in a music thread...

I will stick to the Russian school of piano anyway...

I will present this extraordinary pianist and composer in a piece i never listen before today amazingly played ....

«All lands  have soul, only some people sell theirs soul to propaganda on the two sides of the same coin: hate »-Anonymus Journalist

I used to but few on here were interested .

That Chamber Czech Orchestra is indeed a winner !

mahgister , Music in a land with no soul will want Music with no soul.by at least

90 % of the people .

In North America Mexico is the exception .

For Pires fans, I recommend here recording with the violinist Dumay of Beethoven's Violin and Piano Sonatas on DG (3 CDs).  This is a terrific recording in all respects.

Yes but music can be hijacked for political phenomenon !!

Music is a spiritual phenomenon, not a political one....

Never trust a Russian because Russians don't ever trust themself's .

Otto Von Bismark

I was using Barber here and Bernstein because i discovered the WORK with them... Stern play with Bernstein here... Anyway Shaham is a genius too...But my point was related to the composer which is a great one for me...

And when i like some work i am sometimes unable to choose...

For example these interpretations of the Well tempered Klavier... at first i think i was able to choose... I was wrong...

The Russian master play with a delicate sensibility, like improvising that is sublime...

The Hungarian master play with a controlled WAY that is sublime too...

( i was unable to retrieve his SECOND interpretation recording, here he play in concert but like he played in his second recording though. my favorite one by far, which is way more mature and more controlled playing than his first recording of the work)

One interpretation is more related to my feeling, the Russian one, who play intimate and make our heart participate more a fascinating and pulsating singing interpretation , the other one is more "cosmical", the Hungarian one, almost a fragment of eternity , a block of perfect ice, an HYPNOTIZING interpretation .... Impossible to choose one and forget the other...

Then Shaham is a genius, Stern too in Barber ....

And Barber created a piece Bach would have loved very much too...That was my point... Barber genius...Bernstein and Stern like Shaham are great musicians...my preference here goes to the Bernstein version because the duo violin orchestra is more well contrasted...It is not the violonists which determined my choice but the way Bernstein work the dialogue violin and orchestra over Previn...And anyway if Shaham make his violin sing , Stern make it speak...It is less romantical than Shaham and more "classical" in his intonation...

We can debate interpretation without being able to reach an agreement, but works like the well tempered klavier or Barber quatuor are UNIVERSALLY agreed upon... We can debate about the importance or the level of impact of Scriabin versus Stravinsky for example, but the genius of the two is universally recognized...But some prefer Stravinski and other like me Scriabin...

I use Gil Shaham as a standard much as twoleftears .

What i retain of this analysis, which makes us understand better what feel deply Ives, is that the world is the encounter of an indefinite numbers of free events without any synthesis, a musical self organized chaos, why? The answer is the emerging beauty of the question itself ...Amazing....

This is "the unanswered question" posed by Ives for me ...

A general remark: Music must be investigated, not only tasted, music must be understood at a deepest level than his syntax or grammar, music must be lived through...Music then is not about tastes so much but about the release of the human spirit from his chain, prejudices,limitations, and attachment... It was Scriabin idea to do so with his music and Charles Ives idea too...These two unrecognized or underestimated geniuses, Ives and Sciabin live at the same time in two difdferent country and express the same freedom ....The two explored  tonal/atonality frontier  and the cosmic enigma... 

«Imperfection is the peak and the apex» René char

Behind the music of Ives there is a question, it is not a man who decided to be a composer here, he worked unrecognized as an insurance company executive ,it is a man who happened to be composer, after being a church organist like his father, but obsessed by a deep  question...

He was an "amateur" of all genre of music, instruments,new sound, unusual ideas, unusal statistics, and strange mysteries, like Leonardo Da Vinci happened to be an artist "amateur" of plants, minerals, chemistry, mechanics, etc ...

They were ARTISTS in the deepest sense...Investigative free souls....

Russia give Scriabin who anticipate with his heart the frontier between tonal and atonal WITHOUT a recipe but by heart...

America gives us Charles Ives who wrote music to free humanity too like his Russian brother...

I love these two...

If Barber is a genius and Bernstein too, we must add Charles Ives...

soul of American creativity by 3 americans free  souls....

Another great violonist for sure... I will listen to him ... Thanks...

For years I've been using the first movement of the Barber concerto, with Gil Shaham on DGG, as a loudspeaker and audio system test CD.  If Shaham's violin sounds strident, then there's something wrong; likewise, if the falling bass figures in the background aren't clearly discernible, then something else is wrong.

Barber is so great! He is able to redefine what a violin concerto must be in his own term... Poetry rule over music here, like spirit rule over music in his quatuor adagio ...

If not, why am i able to put these pieces all along with Bach, Beethoven , Mozart and few others giants ?

Isaac Stern so much of a poet here....

And Bernstein the right maestro so much times, here too...

Incredible original creation... With all other musicians sounding like walking gods...

My favorite composer is Bach for sure for my day to day life...

But nothing can beat the Barber adagio with Bernstein if someone dream about the meaning of death...Listen to it ....

@likat   You are very welcome, if there are any more music suggestions you feel you need please do not hesitate as most anyone on the thread will be pleased to chime in with their favourites. Happy listening Jim.

The Art of the fugue of Bach is one of the rare pieces of music where i cannot stand and stay or vouch by only one interpretation....I collect them all...It is the greatest piece of music ever written... Not the most beautiful piece of music ever written no, think about Vivaldi four seasons or the Barber adagio or the 14 th Beethoven quatuor or a Nikhil Banerjee raga... But the Art of the fugue is the deepest one ....

It is a work of cosmic proportion and of deep mathematical meaning....

One version i like among others without being able to choose only one is this one:

Why this version?

Because the brass fill the room encompassing me....

If the horn sound especially, coming from the right speaker, outside of it and dont feel like a wall of sound closing on you, there is a room acoustic problem, if this horn dont fill your room enveloping you, you have a room who need acoustic treatment and mechanical acoustic control, sorry....Dont upgrade, think about acoustic...In the meantime enjoy the music anyway because music is not only good sound after all...

The Everest of Occidental musical history....

Thanks Jim!

I'm new to all this audiogon stuff but was really pleased to find this particular discussion! Thank you for the recommendation.  Now that I have things mostly set up I have been looking for more and more things that I can sit back and listen to. 

I will definitely check out Pletnev! 

@likat     I am afraid I haven't heard your recommendation for Scarlatti but if you want outstanding pianism, wonderful dynamics and superb recording quality go to Mikhail Pletnev and I am sure you will love it. 

For Piano I would add Domenico Scarlatti's piano sonatas.  Particularly k420.  Veronique Bonnecaze does a fantastic job.  

@twoleftears    Although Fliter is a lovely pianist she is certainly no Maurizio Pollini or Krystian Zimmerman, no those two are safe.

Fra Diavolo: Overture by Auber, Daniel this is a very good track to listen and test a system, the notes and frequencies are all over the place