Ceramic insulator cone under phono stage shocker!

Why put your offer on someone else to notify, then somehow determine what device they have no idea as to what they would want?

You made the offer, you should take care of it!

Oh, no! You’re right! Somebody needs to PM me the prize he wants - Morphic Message Labels, Flying Saucers for Windows or Flying Saucers for Unused Wall Outlets.

@geoffkait ,

I read @bdp24  said (Super Stiff Springs) ...HE WON!

I guess nobody wants to win a prize. And the answer is ....

Super Stiff Springs! But the trick is to use two 2x4s, each about 24 inches long. A Super Stiff Spring goes under both ends of both 2x4s that are placed front to back on each side of the rack. This allow you to place the Super Stiff Springs in a very wide pattern, a requirement for stability when isolating a heavy object with high center of gravity. Voila! 🤗 For greater stability place heaviest components on lowest shelves of rack.

@three_easy_payments,

Appreciate your response buddy. I too would like to hear from others more knowledgeable than myself address the issue rather than drag the subject down the drain.

@slaw 

It's been helpful for me and yes, it has devolved.  I'm still interested in hearing GK's thoughts on rack isolation.  I know he thought I was being sarcastic or something but I wasn't.

My 2 cents. I felt like this thread would be helpful to some. Now it has become a joke factory of sorts. Very sad.

Oh, lewm you are so diplomatic. It is more fun to throw a bomb. Now I've got to run fast:)))

The original purpose of spikes was to firmly engage the surface whatever was sitting on. I use three on my subwoofers to firmly engage the floor so they don't walk across the room (minimize vibration). Then like everything in audio the marketing generates a bunch of mythology which then gets a life of it's own. If you think something is going to sound better it will.
If you stuff cotton in both nostrils you will dampen airflow to your Eustachian tubes and decrease tympanic membrane resonance. This increases the sound stage depth and improves pace and timing. Hold on, I've gotta go buy some cotton stock:)

The OP of MY THREAD GK  was to answer the question contained within.
That has been addressed to my satisfaction and so no I do not really have any further information to add to this thread in the direction that you and others have now taken it.

I have zero vibration problems with my TT on my rack ( that I am aware of)

Now if you desire to carry on within this thread that is fine as long as it stays vaguely on topic but do NOT make stupid statements about myself and my posts, got it buddy!

No offense.....

TBH
I was and still am impressed that it has at least stayed on the topic of isolation of any kind.

Geoff
It was a joke.....
Keep taking the tablets......

Wake up, Uber! I didn’t do nothin’. I stayed on topic and refrained from name calling. I’m only trying to help. 🤗 Deep six my stalker if you want to do something positive. Duh!

Congratulations Uber, you have arrived! 

Geoffy is a lot more fun since he went off his meds again. 

Jeez guys
How on earth did my thread about ceramic cones under my phono stage morph into the Geoff and Sleepy show?

Machina Dinosaura toilet plunger feet Geoffy?

Why, with a set of Machina Dynamica Super Stiff Springs, of course. Which I myself have just received .

Whoa! What?! Hey, you were the one who mentioned it. Cut me some slack, Jack!

I'm waiting eagerly for your answer GK.  I have no ideas beyond extra rigid marshmallows or something involving anti-matter.

Why Geoffy, with rack feet decouplers of course! 

Decoupling the rack feet might prove uh, challenging. But it could be done. And I know how to do it! 🤗 

Pop Quiz - first person to answer get a free tweak, How can the rack feet be decoupled from the floor?

I’ve used Herbies audio slider discs under my Maple shades rack’s brass pointed feet - they isolate the rack and also allow me to slide the rack out if needed -  I would check out their web site - you can also ask them for suggestions - as they are very knowledgeable 

bart 

@slaw 

I wouldn't use the DH Cones under the rack, I'd only try them under individual components if I were to give them a try.  I agree on going with a better decoupling/isolation solution under the rack feet - like the Townshend products for example or even the Stillpoints (which I saw but are pricey - I guess it's all relative).

With all due respect, if @three_easy_payments is still think of decoupling from the floor, I don’t know if the DH Cones are the best solution. I saw, for sale, here, Stillpoints 5...4 for 1500.00. As far as Stillpoints go, that’s a great deal. I pondered buying them myself.

Remember when you decouple your rack, all the other components will benefit as well.

Perhaps I will give the Super DH cones a try too. I hear there's nothing quite like ballistic audio.

I have mucho experience with all manner of cones, ever since I started developing my Sub 1.0 Hertz Nimbus platform which has been a while. What I found out was that the two critical characteristics of cones are hardness and shape. The very best cones, like ceramic Super DH (Diamond Hardness) Cones from Golden Sound, are both very hard have a very ballistic shape. They are more open, more natural and more dynamic. By contrast, BDR cones (carbon fiber) are relatively soft (on the Mohs scale of Hardness, I.e., strong but not hard, AND they have a shallow, much less ballistic shape.

Everything is relative. A. Einstein

@geoffkait 

Yes, that makes sense.  In terms of cone tip direction it seems it's really the relative resonant difference between two shelves or a component and a shelf.  In my case the BDR "The Source" shelf is the most resonant so the cone tips point towards The Source shelf and away from my rack shelf.  I realize there are competing forces here to resolve - the seismic energy from the floor propagating through the rack and the TT above The Source being absorbing by the underlying "The Source" shelf and into the cones.  In the end I know which direction sounds better so that makes it easy.  Now if I start decoupling my rack feet more effectively from the floor I may decide flipping the cones may sound better.

three_easy_payments
Although BDR goes on to say:

The proper placement will significantly affect the performance of the cones so the rule of thumb is the tip of the cone towards the resonant surface. For example, under a CD transport sitting on an MDF shelf, the tips of the cones should be pointing down.

So apparently the orientation depends on whether you are using a BDR shelf or not.

>>>>Depends on how you define “resonant surface” since the BRD shelf is still subject to seismic (low frequency) vibration. The whole idea behind vibration isolation and resonance control is to (1) isolate the component from seismic type (very low frequency) vibration while - at the same time - (2) provide a path for rapid evacuation of vibration of the component from motors, transformers, or caused by acoustic waves. So it’s simultaneous equations, not just one equation.

If you compared the Goldmans to the Super DH Cones you would list the Goldmunds on eBay in a heartbeat. Everything is relative. - A. Einstein

For what it’s worth, which ain’t much, the best cones I ever used were and still are the Goldmund cones that are stuffed with a damping putty.

Although BDR goes on to say:

The proper placement will significantly affect the performance of the cones so the rule of thumb is the tip of the cone towards the resonant surface.  For example, under a CD transport sitting on an MDF shelf, the tips of the cones should be pointing down.

So apparently the orientation depends on whether you are using a BDR shelf or not.

Fortunately, in the case of the BDR cones, it doesn’t matter which way the tips point. 😬

Looking around on the BDR webpage (bdrsound.com) I saw their following recommendation when using cones - which I found interesting:

*If you are using BDR Pyramid Cones with a BDR Shelf, invert the cones, so that the flat face is on the Shelf and the component is resting on the rounded tip.

Pryso.
I did indeed perform the test with cones down.
However I also knew there were a couple of well used Amperex tubes in it as well.
So I then decided to replace all 4 tubes with brand new Electro Harmonic tubes and test again but still with cones down.
Since discovering the better SQ I have not inverted the cones again.
At this time I am very happy with the SQ, I was more curious as to why not much effect with the ss phono and I think that has been answered.

uber, I may have missed this but I’ll ask.

When you conducted Al’s test and didn’t hear noise while tapping on the tubes, were your cones still in the downward position? If so and the cones are more effective that way, possibly that masked a bad tube? I’d reverse the cones and try the tapping test again. If any one tube is noisier than the others then replace it. If the difference in one or more tubes is marginal that may be obscured by vibrations.

Then with the replaced tube(s) if you turn the cones downward again you may have even less background interference and increased detail, resolution, etc.

I’m not certain of this but should be worth a try.

tep, shoot an email to John at selecthi-fi on ebay. He'll give you "best price" on all things Townshend.

@bdp24  Those Townshend Seismic Corners look great but wow they are expensive!

@three_easy_payments, look into the Townshend Audio Seismic Corners, which are designed to be used under the four legs of a stand, to decouple it from the floor.

@slaw 

Thanks...I'm checking out your set up and consider the options.  I see you're fan of Symposium and BDR as well.  Appreciate your time weighing in.

@three_ easy_ payment,

Look at my virtual system page at my amp/rack support for an inexpensive/DIY solution. With the Stabi tt, it shouldn’t be an issue. Otherwise the Townshend products are great (based on what I read) and then there’s the Stillpoints stuff....................

@slaw I fear I've hijacked this thread so hopefully no one is offended! The rack is 4 shelves, 36 inches tall.  I'm using a Kuzma Stabi S table.  The floor where the rack is located is not on a slab but is situated on a block connected to footer that is separating the basement from the adjacent crawl space and is remarkably stable.

@three_easy_payments,

If you don’t mind my asking, how tall is the Symposium rack and what tt are you using?

Remember that acoustic "feedback" for lack of a better term, accentuates the vibrations components see. Is your floor a slab? If not, it should be braced underneath.

@slaw Agreed. I’m going to look into something that acts as a decoupler that the rack feet can sit on. I'm open to any suggestions from folks.  I'm using the foot configuration at the bottom of this link page.
http://symposiumusa.com/pcouplers.html

The precision couples are doing just as they are suppose to....coupling your rack to the floor...not decoupling thereby exacerbating the issue, IMO.

@slaw

I’ve actually considered the exact same thing and I suspect you’re right. My rack sits quite close to one of the speakers and the cones are probably dissipating some energy transferred from the floor or even sound reflections from a nearby corner. I have a Symposium rack with spikes that sit on four Precision couplers (maybe I should be using dampening pads and not couplers?) and I use Gaia III feet under my speakers but together they may not be enough to keep the seismic out of the rack. Cones pointing up may be the perfect workaround for me as it would be very difficult moving the rack considerably farther from the speaker. I have a couple of GIK tri-traps on order, one of which will go in the corner 4-5 feet behind the rack - this may helps as well. I have a 24x48 absorber wall panel behind the rack but the corner is untreated.

Thanks for weighing in.

@three_easy_payments,

To me your situation suggests that your (rack, I assume) isn’t effectively decoupled from the floor or surroundings.