Cartridge under $600 for VAC VPI HW

Have you contacted VPI? Shouldn't they be able to help?

Chakster  I am with you 100%. I see that attitude prevalent in all of Audio. Everybody thinks because it's new and modern it must be good. It's just ridiculous what manufacturers are charging for some of these circuits that are 60  years old but in a fancy case. 

I know the seller on audiogon who sells defective cartridges and asking buyers to cover paypal fee, without paypal invoice for purchaced item buyer never get "protection" if the money sent as a gift. Some sellers are dishonest, but when we buy something on ebay we are always protected if the item description in not accurate. Full refund is quaranteed by "paypal buyers protection", including return shipping. That's it, some people just don't know how it really works. I've had a few issues only when i made personal payments, but on ebay i have never had an issue when i bought used cartridges.

When cartridge suspension is collapsed it's clearly visible on the picture of the cartriidge taken after playin one side of the record from the side view.

    

@ chakster

The closest I went for vintage was a used McIntosh MA6600 integrated which I bought from audio Classics. I bought a used Dynavector DV20L here on Audiogon and I got a Cartridge with a collapsed suspension. The seller gave me half my money back. Never again will I buy a used Cartridge. I wish I had kept my Shure V15 type 3 and 4 and my Pickering 681eee but at the time I got sucked in to a Ortofon MC20 and then realized a year later I wasn’t spinning vinyl any longer. Forget the specs, if you ever get a chance to listen to the Vasari Gold you will realize it is something quite special. It makes beautiful music with my Conrad Johnson amp, Rogue RP5 preamp and GE Triton References speakers

chakster, I don't question either your expertise or your hearing. Even without understanding a thing about cartridges, like you I would not buy that Italian cartridge based on those specifications. If I could audition it before buying that might be different.
As for longing for the golden age of analog, I think most of us have it.
I like tape,vinyl is close to it, so yeah..

@inna we are talking about materials used in design of one particular cartridge (against another) and this is obvious that bonded stylus is inferior to the nude stylus. Cantilever material also meen something for those who knows who it works. You can ignore specs on paper, but if you know the history then it’s obvious that Shibata and mode advanced styli were invented to suprass Conical and Elliptical. And design of those flagship cartridges changed the market and put it on another level. This is what we call a golden era of analog. At least no one of the modern designers of the high-end MC cartridges are not willing to use elliptical styli on them anymore (you know why). Denon 103 is an oldschool cartridge, designed in the 60s for broadcast stations in Japan, this cartridge and its sound has so many followers, i’m not belong to this group of people and i think i have my rights to post my opinion with arguments (always).

You tell me about a few modern MM cartridges with beryllium or boron hollow pipe (not rod) cantilevers and nude line Contact or better styli, please. Then we can see what is the price for those modern MM. Then we can compare this price to TOTL vintage cartridges. After we can make a conclusion about "bang for the bucks" of which i’m talking about here.

The reason why people buying Denon 103 is the price tag, it is very cheap classic MC cartridge with a history behind it, and that’s why it’s so popular. You will not find so many praise for TOTL Denon DL-1000 or DL-S1 cartridges for some reason, they are better according to Denon, but much more expensive, because of the materials used to design them.

I’m not trying to offend people who use modern MM cartridges. But for those who would like to spend less and to get more i will advocate vintage MM and vintage MC cartridges, based on my own experience with both vintage and modern. If you’re not agree please post your arguments.

@stereo5

If if you haven’t heard the Cartridge then as far as I am concerned, your opinion means nothing to me. Listen to the Cartridge and then tell me what you think.

This is not an argument. I wish you will listen your favorite Rock records with some of the greatest vintage MM some day. I’m always searching for cartridges, but i can’t ignore my intuition and common sence to buy such cartridge for the price they are asking for bonded elliptical tip on alluminum cantilever with specs like that, sorry. I’ve been there already, tried similar stuff and was not impressed. Glad it’s fine for you, no probs. I just can't see the advantages of that modern design over the top vintage MM from the 70s. 

As someone who is neutral in this vintage/modern debate, I can observe that some advocates of the vintage are often a little agggressive and uncompromising in their opinions. One thing to say is, as an example, that many vintage MM cartridges are much better than most or even all modern MM, and another to call all modern MMs inferior or junk. Perhaps unintentionally, it si close to calling those who use or consider using modern MM uneducated imbeciles.
Not very nice and in many case wrong.
Another point is that vintage, whatever it is, is not for everyone. One should be an expert when choosing, know places to service and fix them, and other considerations.
The Goldring 1042 that I've been using has been made for decades, I think, though it is not vintage in a full sense of the word.
This makes me half-imbecil, I guess.

@chakster

i recommended the Vasari Gold because I happen to like it very much. Specs mean nothing to me. The Cartridge sounds wonderful on my system and since I listen to 90% Rock Music, it is perfect for my needs. The ZU Denon 103 was a much more expensive Cartridge as it was the top grade at 700.00. Unfortunately I bent the canteliver by accident and off it went to Soundsmith. I bought the Vasari Gold Cartridge based on a fellow Audiogoner’s recommendation as he listens to the same kind of music as I do. He gave me good advice and I stand by what I said.  This new Cartridge was just going to be a back up but it is so good that the ZU Denon will now be the back up. 

If if you haven’t heard the Cartridge then as far as I am concerned, your opinion means nothing to me. Listen to the Cartridge and then tell me what you think.

@stereo5 i just checked the specs of the cartridge you are advising to @nazuk and it’s perfectly illustrate that modern MM cartridges are inferior in quality, cheaper in materials used, and very expensive. The reason to advice is just because you bought it or because you think it’s a great cartridge?

SPECS: Vasari Gold
---------------------------------------------
Duraluminum machined body
Aluminum cantilever *
Copper coil wire
Alnico magnet
elliptical diamond *
suggested tracking weight 2.0g
output level 4.0mV
frequency response 15-25KHz *
impedance 1KOhm

* the diamond is not nude (it’s bonded elliptical), cantilever is the cheapest, frequency response is very thin.

It’s very easy to outperform Denon DL-103 with its conical tip, but it is not easy to outperform great vintage MM cartridges with the materials and technologies way ahead of the time. Below you will find the spect of Victor X-1 for example, this cartridge can compete with $3000 MC cartridges.


SPECS: Victor X-1II
---------------------------------------------
Beryllium Cantilever *
Stylus: 0.15mm Nude Shibata diamond tip *
Frequency response: 10-60,000Hz *
Tracking Force: 1,5g (+/- 0,2g)
Output: more 3.0mV (1kHz, 5cm/sec)
Impedance: 2.2 kOhms (1kHz)
Load: 47 to 100 kohms
Weight: 7.5g

*  Shibata stylus shape of the Victor X-1II cartridge distinguishes itself by having the necessary small contact surface at the horizontal level for playback of the ultra-high frequencies found on CD-4 quadraphonic records. At the vertical level, the special shape of the stylus gives a wider contact surface than is the case with either spherical or elliptical styli. Various cartridge manufacturers have been inspired by the Shibata shape and now produce very expensive cartridges with stylus shapes that give the same advantages as the Shibata. These have names such as bi-elliptical, pramanic, quadrahedral, hyperbolic, pathemax, and Fine Line. Although CD-4 and other quadraphonic systems never really caught on with consumers, they have helped to speed up the development of stylus types that improve playback of stereo records in the form of a more precise treble reproduction, lower distortion, and less record wear. The cantilever is made of beryllium, a metal that is far lighter and stronger than widely-used aluminium or titanium. It has greater velocity of sound propagation, and it’s flat response extends into the super high frequency range.

And this Victor is only one example of the great vintage MM cartridges from the 70s and 80s.

Thanks for those suggestions.  I will look up what is said more about them.     much appreciated.   

I went from a ZU DL103 cartridge on my Prime to a Gold Note Vasari Gold MM Cartridge. The sound is much more than a 500.00 Cartridge should be. I bought it from the Canadian distributor as there doesn’t seem to be a presence in the US. Best part is 500 Canadian is about 425.00USD.

Have you tried any moving coils? I believe your preamp supports both. If you might want to try a MC you should look at the Hana line of cartridges. There are many reviews out there and based on what you’ve said one of them might fit the bill. 

If you want to stay with MM you may want to look at the Clearaudio Artist. Music Direct is having a sale on them right now and it’s a really good cartridge, as is the even cheaper Performer.

 Ideally you should try to hear the cartridge you are interested in with your preamp and even better in your system. Your ears are the best judge. Good Luck!

Many thanks for your suggestions.  At this point I am looking for something different than the Grado, but I may get one in the end, I don't know. I am really trying to get a cart that is more dynamic and throws a huge soundstage as I am used to listening mostly to digital audio and those factors make listening to the Grado unthrilling.  

I have Joseph Grado Signature XTZ which is better than TLZ and i can recommend you to try Victor X-1II cartridge with original JVC Shibata stylus tip on Beryllium Cantilever if you want to try something different. It's killer cart. It would be easy for you to search audiogon for Victor X-1II to find many info about this great MM cartridge. Check it and if you need one i can help as i have a few spares in perfect condition (linked picture is one of them). This is definitely one of those MM cartridges that anyone should try before spending more money on anything else. It’s exactly within your budget @nazuk