Care to offer comparisons? Wilson, YG, Magico, Stenheim, Rockport, Audio Note

@hilde45 i.e. if you read over the Axpona report here on the other Agon thread, you might note that well known amplifiers and well known speakers that sound warm and good were paired up, and reportedly did not sound good for unconfirmed reasons other than "seating" position, etc. There is more to it, lots of testing required, to find the right matching and setup it seems.

Yet in other rooms, at the exact same show and time apart within 30 minutes, the same pair of speakers sounded amazing in one room, and bad or not so inviting or engaging in an adjacent room down the hall. Why so? Room? Components used?

My local 53-year-in-business dealer obsesses with system setup and matching of amps, speakers, cabling, and fine tuning with sources like few I’ve seen before. Then we came home from shows on year, and go listen to his steps and wallah. Its there. I still tend to believe there is some real value in striking a balance with matching of components. I’ll never forget the 2019 show in NorCal. Two well-praised manufacturers got paired up in the same room and it sounded absolutely horrible to me. Everything about it sounded way off, was bummed for both Mfgs.

They had an idea, it did not work at all, did they test it before the show, maybe not.

Good matching is everything. Takes a lot of time, trial, and error to find it. Only way to know is to try different things, and why many members buy/sell/rotate gear as we see all of the time right here Agon. My .02 cents at least fwiw. Wishing all good luck on the journey and hopefully some good music listening along the way.

@decooney @audphile1 

The question becomes, are there some speakers that no amp can do much to warm up? Are there limits to the kind of tone character an amp (or preamp) can affect with a given speaker?

@audphile1 ...to tune it more towards warmth and musicality.

Yup. Some amp/speaker designers strive for this, and know how to, which I prefer.

While others push for fast, transparent, hyper-detail which can be quite fatiguing.

@hilde45 thanks for sharing your thoughts! Interesting observation.
It sounds like the systems you’ve auditioned were perhaps set up / geared more towards resolution and precision. I believe that can be changed by pairing these speakers with different amplification and or source, and even different cabling, to tune it more towards warmth and musicality. And to your point the room plays a huge role.
Many variables and most likely plenty of potential to change the sonic signature. 
 

@audphile1

I can say that I have heard the Rockports powered by Boulder and the Stenheim’s powered by CH Precision ($58k integrated); I also heard two sets of Wilson speakers powered in one case by D’Agostino and in the other by Ayre.

In all cases, the speakers and equipment were like... a James Cameron movie. By that I mean they had tremendous dramatic punch and precision. Bass was punchy, tight, accurate, clean, and very definitely located. Mids and highs were detailed, right-sized, and cleanly arranged. Soundstage in all cases were wide enough, but no rooms which I heard these systems presented much depth -- or air.

That lack of depth, air, was missing for me. It is hard for me to relax with such speakers -- that’s why I probably went tot he James Cameron analogy. The sound systems were "riveting" the way a sci-fi movie is riveting. The way movie theater sound is riveting. But not like a lounge, a concert hall, a jazz club, a coffee house.

A lot of this likely has to do with the rooms I heard them in; all had a very great influence -- rooms always do -- so it’s hard to isolate from the total experience the speaker’s "innate" character. It’s possible (probable) these speakers could all sound much different. At the very least the systems involved were all very high quality solid state, so that helps. In some cases, more diffusion in the rooms would likely have changed something, but I'm pretty sure that the gear involved was to a certain extent, just doing the magic it does.

My tastes run pretty clearly to more efficient speakers and lower powered amps, especially tube amps, but I have yet to have a chance to hear very very good systems with that philosophy. I hope once Audio Note gear is a full part of one local shop's inventory I'll have a chance to hear that. Until then, I'm just trying to hear stuff that is ostensibly "top-notch" to at least establish some data-points about what that sound is like.

this is the closest I will ever come to these speakers: by reading that somebody I don't know had heard them :)

@hilde45 audition some of these and let us know what you think as well. 

@bobbydd Very, very helpful. Thanks!

@jeffseight 

I see a couple dogs on the list and some names missing.

I am only mentioning things in my area I might have access to, but what would you add to the list? Which are the "dogs" and why? Thank you.

I have a fair bit of experience with Wilson and Magico, as well as Joseph Audio.  In a similar price range have also heard a few Sonus Faber and Borresen models.

Have not heard the Stenheim's or the YG's or the Rockport's.

The best Wilson I've heard (multiple times) is the new Alexia V's owned by a friend.  They replaced a set of Alexia 2's.  The speaker is basically full range, very dynamic, with excellent sound staging and overall good tonality/timbre.  It can be slightly boomy in the mid bass and may well excite room modes in the bass more than others, either by design (ported) or by it's sheer size.

I've owned a Watt/Puppy 7 system 18 years, and while it images well and has shares most of the dynamics of larger Wilson's, it's dated drivers are NOT nearly as good as current Alexia V's - which feature a new tweeter and midrange.  Note only the upper level Wilson's have these new drivers (Sasha DAW and lower do not as far as I know).  The current DAW does not sound nearly as good as the Alexia V to my ears, possibly due to it's prior generation tweeter and midrange units.

The Magico's in comparison are less sensitive speakers and require more power to strut their stuff compared to Wilson's.  The Magico's sound less dynamic at low volume.  I own the A5, and would say that it's most significant flaw is that need for power (current).  Otherwise it can sound a little lifeless.

That said, in most other parameters the Magico's are fantastic.  Feed then power and they come alive, with startling dynamics, detail, resolution and transparency.  They are REVEALING, so a good source is mandatory.  Imaging is fantastic as well - they basically disappear with good recordings.

A friend owns the Magico M3, and limited exposure to that model confirmed to me that in terms of driver technology and implementation, Magico is at or near the top.  It is a more resolving sound than even top Wilson's, just more information with lower distortion.

Sonus Faber models in the $30K range also sound very good.  Plus they LOOK beautiful as well - for some that is important.

Borresen's were a surprise to me.  Auditioned several briefly; in short, their Z line is very good at somewhat sane prices (below $50K).  I think the Z3 may be the sweet spot, as the upper tier models quickly escalate to the price of a small house.

Lastly, I own Joseph Audio Pulsar 2 Graphene's in a separate system.  JA's have beautiful sounding drivers and are highly resolving without being analytical or hyper detailed.  I believe the sound is basically similar but gets bigger as you move up the line to Perspective's and so on.  They are also rather low on the sensitivity scale, closer to Magico's.  Hence they like power, and maybe powerful tubed units.

Would like to hear the Stenheim's some day.

Hope that helps.

I’ve heard Magico A3 and didn’t care for them. To me they sounded dark, veiled, boomy and the overall presentation wasn’t engaging. I couldn’t get into it. I could also hear cabinet artifacts when they were pushed hard.
The sound reminded me of the original SF Cremona but in a bad way. The Cremona, despite sounding dark, were excellent speakers with a seductive and engaging presentation. 
I ended up with Wilson Sabrina and haven’t looked back.

I see a couple dogs on the list and some names missing.