I got the Genesis PC to actually hold between my power conditioner and CD player this am. We are closing doors very gently for fear of disturbing the perfect balance. I pre-bent everything and then placed the bulk of the weight on an insulated 4" pipe about 18" long. Took me 1/2 hour to plan and prebend, 10 minutes to install - a new record for VD and me. It has been working for several hours now.....
Initial comparison with EpiphanyX it replaced - no contest - better imaging, depth and width of soundstage, musicality, and most of all, the ability to draw out the soul of the music, especially the bass, much more clearly. I realize this will only get better as the cord settles in, but so far, so good. |
Ozzy, that was very helpful information -- about the Revelations taking up to 400 hours to fully break in. I'm at about 120 hours on my Revelation speaker cables and the system is still improving noticeably.
Of course, the same applies to my cartridge and tonearm wire, which have about about 100 hours on them and my Purist Aqueous Anniversary phono cable, which has about 60 hours on it. Albert Porter tells me the Aqueous Anniversary takes about 700 hours to fully break in!
Ed |
Fplanner, the tripod sits 6" below the level of the IEC, about a foot away, to allow the cable to span the distance between cdp and the Hydra. I had 3 36" oak dowels on hand - pine would work (perhaps another sonic consideration? LOL) - and drilled a hole through them about 6" from the top, connecting them with a 3" screw. I set the Master over the top of the tripod's crotch (is there a better choice of word here?).
Verrrrrry ugly. But it works.
Your idea of using the wall as a support might also work. Superglue would probably work too...just make sure you never want to move anything ever again... Sheesh, the things we do.
If only I were a Luddite. |
Islandear- thanks for sharing your experience. Where exactly did you put the dowel? I'm hopeful of using the rear wall as support and measuring the bend to both power conditioner and the CD player (about 18"). I think if I can somehow support the bottom run to the conditioner, MAYBE the rest will hold against the wall. If not, I may have to devise some sort of clamp to hold it against the upper wall near the CD player, altho I really hate to start drilling into walls for a power cord............. Maybe I'll just try super-glue..... |
I find the Genesis intriguing but it is out of reach for many (most?) of us. They do have a rather stiff price of admission you have to admit. But if you can handle it what the hell. They probably sound fantastic! |
Fplanner, I have a similar situation - similar in that I have a Master on my AA Capitole. The Cap sits on a double stack of Rollerblocks and the Master - if not supported - pulls the Cap off the Rollerblocks. Temporarily I have put an oak dowel tripod in place to support the Master. This fix is not ideal, and it is certainly unattractive. But the Cap remains, safely, on the RBs which are an indispensable part of my chain. Before I decide to swap the Masters for Revelations, or - should I even suggest this? - the Genesis, I'm going to have to change my rack, effectively lowering the height of the Cap. |
Actually Dennis, the Rev's are used, not new, at least that is what Rick and Abderrahim at VD told me. There is no way of telling how many hours have been on them, maybe 50 maybe 5000. You can't tell when buying used.
If it does indeed take 3-4 months for them to bloom, it's a shame VD only has a 45 day trial period.
Your description of the Genesis sounds similar to my take of the Dominus regarding soundstage. The speakers and walls just dissapear. There is no way that I can afford to try the Genesis though, so I'll just have to take your word on that. :)
John |
Gentlemen,break in is a fact of life with VD cables and seems to be even longer with the higher level cables. Jmcgrogan2,you are on the tip of the iceberg when you consider that the REV is new and your amp is just starting to push through it.As far as soundstaging,it will take at least 400 hours before the cables start to relax and show the soundstaging they are capable of. To say that they throw a huge stage and make the speakers completely dissappear,really,doesn't tell how powerfully musical the recordings can be.The Genesis cable sets a whole new level of resolution and musicality,space that goes back way beyond the rear wall, width that completely destroys walls and height that fills cathederals organs in complete space.I am sure that PAD is an excellent cable but the VD is capable of so much more.A fully broken in system will bend your mind as well as the ear!As RJA stated "it 3-4 months for them to bloom"-Cheers Dennis |
Ozzy,
I see in your system that you have PAD Dominus interconnects and VD Revelation speaker cables, an interesting combination indeed. Have you thought about going all one way or the other? I know Rick Schultz recommends a full VD rig. I'm sure Jim Aud of PAD feels the same way. It might be an intruiging combination of PAD and VD, assuming you get the best properties of both.
The dynamics and power of VD with the soundstage and ease of the PAD........hmmmmmm....intruiging indeed.
Of course I guess the possibility of getting the power and dynamics of the PAD and the soundstage and ease of VD is also a possibility. :(
John |
My Revelations 2 Biwire has probaly 400+ hours on them.
I am very glad I purchased them.Everyhting sounds in balance.
Connecting them up is a bear . I am using on the speaker end Cardas spade/banna adapters and it really helped in the hook up.
On another note, I was trying to seperate the biwire speaker ends from the magnets drawing together. I have been using Vibrapods to do that.
Talking recently to VD however , they say some people are putting some sort of metal between the magnet speaker biwire ends. The magnets then snap together with the metal bewteen.
He says some have expressed it as a tweek.
I found that beer bottle caps works great for that. Problem is, you have to drink 4 beers to complete the project tweek. |
John and Ed,
When I put new balanced Revelations in my system it took a good 3-4 months for them to bloom. Speaker cables of course should be quicker but be patient you will be rewarded.
Oh I almost forgot, no such thing as break-in, it's all a myth 8^).
BTW: The first time I tried to install the Rev bi-wired SC I broke a speaker terminal. Up side, I replaced all the terminals with Cardas gold plated copper. Seemed to help the sound a bit. |
John,
I really appreciate your comparison of the Revelation and the Dominus. I have not heard a Dominus and have comments on it that are all over the spectrum.
I have had my Revelation SCs in my system now for a bit more than 100 hours and they are still improving, especially in debth and air around images on the soundstage. Speakers completely disappeared long ago when I replaced the Russian Sovtecs with appropriate NOS tubes - Telefunken, Amperex and RCA mostly. As they settle in over the next few days they should improve signifantly. Then over the next 100 hours the improvement will be gradual but noticeable.
Fplanner, All of us will be interested in your take on the Genesis vs. the Revelation after the Genesis has settled in.
Best,
Ed |
To all,
I replaced the binding posts on my Rowland amp today, and wrestled the Revelations into place (I have the scars to prove it).
My initial impressions are favorable, they sound very good. The attack and decay of instrumental notes, as well as the power and dynamics stand out as outstanding.
There are some things that I miss about the PAD Dominus speaker cables that I had been using though. The Dominus presented a more relaxed, laid back presentation, with better soundstage depth. The Dominus was also better at making the walls and speakers 'dissapear'.
The Revelations have a more 'immediate' presentation, somewhat like moving up towards the stage several rows. The Dominus has more of a 'laid-back' presentation, more like seating mid-hallish. Obviously different people will prefer different presentations.
Though the Dominus cannot match the attack and decay speed of the Revelation, and sound a bit slow in comparison, I do wish that the Revelation had the spacious dimensionality that the Dominus present.
These are just my initial impressions. Obviously, due to the stiffness of the VD cables, quick A/B comparisons will not be possible. Both are very fine cables, with strong attributes. Which will be prefferable in the long run is yet to be determined.
John |
Rja- Yes, those magnetic ends are "sticky" so you have to be careful. Interesting that you had a bottlecap around your stereo gear...
Brouch - Just received a Genesis PC and will be attempting to install it this weekend between my power conditioner (2nd shelf from bottom of my rack) and my CD player (top of my rack) without pulling either of them out of position. The CD player is also on Stillpoints so this will be quite a challenge. I will probably have to rely upon inertia, the spin of the earth, prayer and blind luck to pull this off(no pun) without breaking anything. That cord(s) has got to weigh at least 14-15 lbs. Rumor has it the resulting sound is pretty spectacular, so again, worth the effort. I too plan to be sweating............. |
I agree with Islandear and Flanner. The Revelations are worth the effort. Go for it, John!
My mono blocks are directly behind my speakers also with not very much space between the wall and the back of the amps. I have them on SRA Ohio-Class XL Plus Isobases. After prebending the 8-foot Revelations, I looped them underneath the SRA Craz racks, then underneath the Isobases and finally to the back of the speakers. It took at least an hour to get everything just right, but there is no pressure on the amp or speaker binding posts.
I have not heard the Transparent Opus MM or Reference MM or the Purist Audio Anniversary or VD Genesis speaker cables, but I'd be surprised if anything short of those is going to better VD Revelations (there are some other top of the line cable I have not heard either -- like the top of the line Siltechs, the Silversmith Paladiums and the Jena Labs Dreamdancers, all of which have their proponents).
Best,
Ed |
Fplanner2000,
You didn't mention the magnets sticking to everything in the process. I actually found a bottle cap stuck to one of mine. |
Yep, 2 hours for me to with the Rev speaker wires. About 1 hour each for the Rev I/c's. Lots of intense work, I was even sweating before I was all done. This was one concern Rick had when he released the cable to the public. The sound you get out of the Rev cables is worth the work. So much so that I am willing to do it all again with the new 6 ga. wire in the Genisis line. "Sounds like good fun" to me !! |
John-
Just so you don't feel alone, I too have almost zero space behind my rack and a big TV almost against 1 side of it, so I have 1 access point, period. I need to contort myself behind a speaker, carefully stepping between 10 feet of coiled bi-wire Revelation rebar just to begin to be able to barely reach the connections in my rack, which I can only reach with one hand. It took me over 2 hours to properly install my bi-wire(lots of cables) Revelation speaker cables, with the pre-bending trial-and-error, etc.
Know what? It was worth it and I'd do it again tomorrow for the kind of performance I'm getting out of these cables. Hope this helps a little. |
Ah yes, John. You are infected. Yes, we could be redirecting all this time and money into some other hobby, or some professional association, or some political par--whoa.
It's what we do to escape.
I've suggested to several people, including Rick S, that someone should manufacture some form of cable management system. Won't be me. I'm already dodging enough responsibility. But you'd think, what with the width, weight and inflexibility of these precious monsters, that some mfr would go the extra mile to make sure that we can easily introduce them into our system. But then, that's me.
When the Rowland is up and running give the VD a shot. They might work. Maybe not. All you're out - besides the repair on the Rowland - is some time. I'll be interested to hear your impressions if you do. |
Blaine, I haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning towards giving them another shot. I can pre-bend them into shape, but to do it right, I would have had to move my right channel speaker out of position. I tried to do it the easier way, by just turning my amplifier 90 degrees. The cables tightened down fine, but as I was turning the amp back into normal position, it popped off the binding post.
Also, even with pre-bending, they will make working behind my system prohibative. My monoblock amps require only 2 feet speaker cables, these Revelations are 6 feet, the shortest VD makes. There is not a whole lot of room behind my system, but enough for me to get behind it and change cables. I don't know if I can still squeeze back there once I put in these rebarb wires, if you know what I mean. I guess what I'm saying is that part of the pre-bending problem is that these cables are too long for my needs. My monoblock amps are right next to my speakers. It'd be great if they were 3 feet shorter.
So I'm thinking of trying the Rev's again, but I'll have to move the whole speaker out of position so that I don't have to move the amp after the cables are hooked up to them. I didn't think of this until after the binding post popped. I never had to move the speaker just to hook up speaker cables before, but I guess there is a first time for everything. At this point, they'd better be worth the effort.
Though I'm not fully positive that I want to keep a cable that is capable of such damage. Luckily, no person or animal was injured on this occasion. I would worry about it snapping at an inopportune time, like if the dog was sniffing around back there, or the wife was cleaning, or myself changing some other cables.
I am starting to question some of my audio decisions lately. I also recently aquired a power cord (which shall remain nameless), that is so stiff and heavy that it twisted the power conditioner around! It makes the VD Rev. power cords look like zip cord. :)
Why do I do this stuff??? Am I a masochist? Why can't all cables just sound the same to me???
John |
Hi John,
I did the same thing that Islandear did with his Rev speaker cables. If you just work out the shape you need in mind and prebend the cables to that shape before inserting them and securing them to the binding posts (you may have to do some adjustment to the bends after inserting them into the system before securing them to the binding posts), they should be fine and not place any stress on the binding posts.
I actually found their stiffness to be an advantage in a number of ways.
They seem to give me almost as much transparency plus clear, sweet top end, and top to bottom tonal balance as the Purist Aqueous Anniversary and at the same time almost as much base slam as the Transparent and better imaging within the soundstage than either the PAD AA or the Transparent. I have not tried nearly all the top contenders, but the VD Revelations are definitely the best cables I've had in the system.
Best,
Ed |
Jmcgrogan (John), bummer about the Rowland. Are you returning the Rev speaker cables because they don't fit? I had similar issues but I ended up measuring the turns in my system and preshaped the cable before inserting the runs into my system. Wouldn't want to have to go through that exercise again too soon, but the performance of the cable made the effort worthwhile. |
To add to the first question,
Virtual Dynamics cables are much better (in my system ) than any cable I have tried in the last four years.
This includes some of the so called world beaters.
Without getting into a can of worms & details.
Lets just say Detail explains alot.
The people who have tried the Rev's & Genesis, know what I'm talking about.
Good luck in your search
just my opinion |
Hi Ed,
Actually I'm still waiting for my new preamp to arrive. My dealer ordered it on 12/12/06, and I'm still waiting. It's a BAT VK-32SE. He has sent me a VK-3iXSE loaner while I wait.
Yesterday I got a pair of VD Revelation speaker cables, man are they stiff. Even with pre-bending they are a struggle. It looks like I'll have to send them back to VD though, as they broke the binding post on my Rowland amp. :(
John |
I have spoken to Rick about it in the past, but quite frankly was looking for more of a laymans interpretation. |
If you REALLY want to understand, call Rick at VD. He is the best source to answer your questions. Comments by others, whether well-intentioned or not, will only be misleading. The AA poster above would have found out the answers to his issues had he made a call, or even read the VD website, instead of "enlightening" others with his lack of understanding. |
Perhaps a bit off topic, but a thread on AA appeared recently where another cable manufacturer had this to say about VD power cords:
"Some may be aware of this, but Virtual Dynamics uses magnets soldered in series with the conductors on their products, calling this "Speed of Light" technology.
Not wanting to look like some jerk manufacturer bashing his competitor, I've not brought it up before- but from the urging of one of the chatters here, I figured I'd bring it up.
This seems to me to be an dangerous practice when used with power cords.... "
Further down in the thread this was posted:
"My concerns stem from a couple issues:
The magnets will be subject to EM forces which may damage their insulation or the solder joints through the motion of the magnets.
The solder joint to the magnet is a dubious proposition- I'd be inclined to worry about those joints as a failure point.
There's a pretty high potential for these to heat up, making displacement of typical insulators somewhat easier.
The irritation and potential damages (imagine if one got too close to your phono cart) of the cable being drawn towards racks, chassis, etc, is a less major issue.
Just some of the issues, no doubt there are others. And I agree, many other cords are unsafe as well- I just find these to be particularly disconcerting."
The thread can be found here: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/127112.html
I would like to know what VD users think about this. Let me add that I own 2 VD power cords (Nite II and Master) and am very pleased with them. No issues in my system. The reason I am posting this is to get a better understanding of this comment and the use of the magents from a technical perspective. I have no intention of replacing the VD cables. I just want to try and understand this better.
Thanks in advance. |
Hi John,
I'm sorry about your remorse. What preamp/amp did you get?
Personally and in my system, the Revelations and the PowerLink MM PCs are very close. Maybe if I had a few more Revelation PCs, the difference would be more noticeable. But in ICs and SCs, except for base, both the Masters and the Revelations are better than the Transparent Reference (current MM technology).
I was outbid this past week on a Revelation Signature PC. I would have liked to have heard what it could do in my system.
Best,
Ed |
I received the rest of the full complement of VD master cables and cords. There is the sense of balance and symbiosis in my system that I never heard before. The focus is on the music instead of the components and the weak link. The sound is better throughout the whole spectrum with great dynamics and soundstage. |
Hi Ed,
I'm glad you are enjoying the VD Revelations, though to be honest I do have a bit of 'seller's remorse'. I sold them for funds to upgrade my preamp/amp, but I have not heard a power cord that betters them yet. The used prices now seem to have jumped 20-25%, which is prohibiting me from re-aquiring them. Though I do have some Masters on order.
Maybe I should give Transparent another listen. I listened to several Transparent i/c's, s/c's, and p/c's over the years, and even owned some i/c's for a while. I never felt they were a good value though. They sounded good, but I felt I heard many better sounding cables that cost less. However, I haven't heard any Transparent stuff in around 5 years.
I have the PAD Dominus, and it is a very good cord, but not on par with the VD Revelation, IMHO.
Cheers,
John |
I have have two VD Revelation Power Cables, 6 Transparent PowerLink MM PCs (top of Transparent Line). I cannot hear an appreciable difference between them, but both are better than Purist Opis (and they cost a lot more). I have not heard the Purist Dominus.
I also have VD Revelation, Transparent Musicwave Ultra and Purist Aqueous Anniversary speaker cables. Again, the Transparents and the VDs are similar with the Transparents having more base slam, the VDs better soundstage and imaging with base closer to the Transparent than to the Purist and the Purists the best highs and arguably the best tonal balance top to bottom.
I have 2 sets of VD Masters series balanced XLR ICs, 2 sets of Transparent Reference MM balanced ICs, and 1 pair of Purist Venustas balanced ICs. Here the VDs and the Transparents are fairly close but the VDs still throw a better soundstage and imaging and not quite as powerful base slam as the Transparents, while the Venustas are not nearly as good as either in base, soundstage or imaging.
My Purist Aqueous Anniversary phono cable lets my system sing and demonstrate the powerful superiority of vinyl over digital. My Cardas Golden Cross phono cable is not in the same league.
On balance, VD gets the nod from me, especially with signal cables.
Jmcgrogan2, good to see you're staying active on the 'Gon. I am very happy with the VD Revelation power cables and would like to get two more, even though it is difficult to hear much difference between them and the Transparent PowerLink MM.
Ed |
WOW !!! Virtual Dynamics, Baby, all the way... I am planning a yard sale to unload my Transparent Cable !!! |
Dadgummit, John, you mean my neighbor's complaints about noise are valid? BTW, what do you want to hear next? |
Mix Purist Dominus C Ferox and or Anniversary cables with the Virtual Dynamics cables ...what synergy !!!
Just for the heck , I connected a VD Master and a Purist Dominus power cord together with a home made adapter to power my 60" Sony LCD.
Guys picture quality became outstanding!!
Each cord by themselves was ok but together, wow!
So, I am using a VD power cord to my Hydra 8 . A Purist Dominus C power cord to my APL Cd Player.
Purist Dominus C balanced interconnects from APL to Pass Labs 350.5 Amp.
VD Revelation 2 bi-wire to my Speakers and a Purist Anniversary power cord for my Pass Amp. |
My pleasure Blaine. Though you are 3000 miles away, I can hear how good your Parsifal's sound from here. :)
Cheers,
John |
I was searching for new PCs for my dual mono, BAT amp. I had been running one of David Elrod's Statements on my 200, but there was no way I was going to be able to wrestle two of them into place. Another Agoner, Jmcgrogan (thanks again), suggested I try VD PCs on my 600, since he had already enjoyed that combo in his own system. I started with a couple of Master PCs and also replaced the King Cobra v2 on my source. There was a very dramatic improvement in the depth and breadth of the soundstage. The sound was noticeably more immediately transparent. Even though the wire was essentially new (despite being run in at the mfr) there was no grunge at frequency extremes. To rely on a cliche, there was a sense of gestalt.
I was also provided a new set of Revelation ICs and Revelation speaker cable. All cabling is in place and has run about 200 hours. While I expect things to continue to meld, I have been revisiting corners of my jazz and blues collection with renewed enthusiasm. I certainly would agree with anyone that there are a lot of outstanding cable manufacturers - and that this product, like every other will appeal to only a portion of the market, but this addition was entirely worth the time and money invested. If you had told me five years ago that I would be making this kind of investment in wire...well...now it's just another important component. |
Just hooked up my total system today with Virtual Dynamics cables and power cords. I loved it and a friend named Godfrey came to listen Godfrey is a seasoned audiophile with a vast knowledge of music, and tends to be highly critical of any audio upgrade. Here is what he said tonight about my system! Paul Bee
Glory HALLELUJAH! Its the second coming!!
Paul has discovered that one of the speakers was out of phase.* (see note below) That has now been corrected and the whole system just sings! All the old favorites sound brand, spanking, new - and as alive as the real thing.
Virtual Dynamics says their design has more than a touch of the divine and I am inclined to believe them.
You must hear this for yourselves.
Godfrey
***********************
* Note that the Virtual Dynamics power cords and cables are very stiff and must be forcably bent to form a fit. In installing the first round of power cords, one of the speaker connections came loose on the back of one of the Ayre amps and I accidentally put it back reversed, where it played out of phase for about a week. But all is wonderful NOW. |
My system has also benefitted tremendously from VD cords - power, IC and speaker cables. I have them mixed with Elrod Statements(back end) - they were truly the equivalent of a "component-level+" upgrade to my system and continue to get better the more they break in. I was pleasantly surprised by what a dramatic, positive effect they make - Rick S. has also been great to work with. |
Paul Music,if you really want to hear how good VD cables can be,you really need to try the Quicksiver Gold to gleen the very best out of these cables.The Master is one of the best balanced cables that performs at a astounding level of musicality from top to bottom.Also you really need to put 400+ hours on the cables before they are really run in.Wait till you get Master I/c to get your doors blown completely off,this will show you res in a profound way and yet be so musically right.Please do keep us posted-Dennis |
I continue to be impressed with the dramatic change Virtual Dynamics power cords have made in my (Ayre Acoustics - Wilson Sophia 2) system. I added three Nite power cords today, and even though not broken in, the tonal quality is beautiful and the black background in the soundstage is stunning. I am getting Master speaker cable and interconnects Jan 29th, and will keep updating this as they are added, and as everything has time to break in a bit. I would not have believed that power cords could make such an improvement in an already great system, but it is a whole new animal now, and continues to increase! |
Dave B the music we listen to is VIRTUAL in every way.Some of my favourites are XRCD Flamenco Passion,Sarah Vaughn-mixed up and crazy,Cantae Domino,Opus3 Showcase which is incredible sound,Burmester.If you really think that Transparent is in the same league then you should talk to the Cable company to arrange a demo.To be fair you must compare similar cables and they must have at least 3-days for the vd cables to settle into your system ( this allows for a type of burn in for all components).Good luck-Dennis |
Sounds an awful lot like transparent cables effect on my system..anyone compare them fully broken in? What kind of music are you VD guys listening to?? |
Virtual dynamics gets my vote. The change was a dramatic one. Just changing the speaker cables[Master] was like a shot of adrenaline going throughout the system. I do plan on replacing every cable with the VD's. Soundstage is huge. I always felt my sytem was a bit lean in the bass and a touch bright. The VD cables put that to rest. I probably wasted money on changing amps instead of changing the cables. |
Transparent MM baby...if you dare to face the music. |
I am just beginning to learn about the Virtual Dynamics lineup, and so far mine are still breaking in. I have ordered more of them, they already sound so spacious and musical with my Ayre System. |
>>Nothing else brings out the music in the best systems.<<
Sorry, that's disingenuous. Perhaps it works in your case but there is no single cable manufacturer whose products are the best for all systems.
Move on back one square. |
Paul Music.
They are that good! The Virtual dynamics meaning.
I had over 10 sent from me from the cable company and I was shocked by how good the $550 david did. It was so much better then the 1100 dollar python and even prefered it to the $1600 elrod sig 3 though that was the only one that was close.
Since buying 7 david pcs I have bought a master LE virtual dynamics pc. I prefered it to the davids, but as far as value I cant say enough on the davids. If you dont get the david I would maybe bypass nite and go to master.
The pc's seem to bennifit every component I plug it into.
Happy listening... |
I have all krell evolution gear and Dynaudio C4's...just one of many systems over the years. Many components come and go, some are refined and some are standard bearers..Transparent cable and power cords are unique in that musicians use their ears when designing them. Nothing else brings out the music in the best systems. |
Which VD's do you recommend for which type of components? I may try my whole system with them if they're PC's are that good.... |
My conclusion is that nobody should spend money on a power cord until they have listened to Virtual Dynamics power cords! period Period PERIOD |
