Volleyguy, we hate wasting money too on crossover parts... that only give you a small improvement in sound "by theirself". Do like we did and put some QuickSilver GOLD on all your crossover parts and hook-up wires. You DO NOT put this stuff on any soldered joints....you put it on the LEAD wires on the crossover parts on the other side of the crossover board. I always thought that QuickSilver Gold was better on video BUT not any more....we can now listen to very cheap solid state gear with our HORN speakers all day long with NO side effects.... |
Face
The first caps I put in were Sonicaps compared to the vintage foil in oil. I did one speaker with each type. I then got my wife to come down and here the difference. (she had no idea which was which, so completely blind)
She said "Clearly that one is wayyyy better. This is the best thing you have ever done" (audio wise) She was very impressed!
The only problem was the speaker she thought wayyy better was the vintage one!
I just paid the $ for the caps and an hour or two farting around to install them and after 30 years of wear and new technology the old foil caps were wayyy better?
She said they sound like real people and real instruments. At first I was impressed how much quieter the Sonicaps caps were. The noise floor was MUCH lower.
What I mean by all of this is that (tonality) is what you are getting (and paying for) with Duelund. Once the Mundorf Supreme's went in they were as dynamic as the foil caps (much better than Sonicaps) and as dynamic as Duelund but everything sounded still like plastic.
Now is that worth it to someone?
Tempo Electric says
"A clear improvement over the runner up. Brass instruments sounded more like brass, violins sounded more like violins, and so on. Everything was cleaner, smoother, and exhibited less glare. Previous to installing the Duelunds, we thought the (now) runner-up was so good that we didn't recognize its flaws until they were gone".
Tempo was correct to not say they are more more dynamic or blacker backgrounds.
I do think foil caps are very expensive as well. Tempo also says of the Jensen's Aluminum foil in Oil that they are Tier F! That is not cheap for a Tier F cap either!
Jensen coppers were only Tier D.
This is where I am having a tough time Tier A V-Caps are fairly cheap. Tempo has not tested Duelund or the new Jensen Paper tube in oil, and I hate wasting money. |
I just put a 2.2uf VSF copper in my mini-monitors and these Duelunds are very big and heavy compared to the caps that they replaced. The speaker manufacturer I bought these Duelunds from emphasized that the Duelunds require several hundred hours to fully break-in. So for those who claim that the Duelunds sound great right off the bat, then they will supposedly only get better with time. (O: |
Here's a Duelund 44 uF VSF cap next to a 51/2" Scanspeak Mid/woofer. DuelundNot only big but heavy! |
Duelund makes any size, including custom... But if its not stocked at parts connexion takes an extra 3 weeks or more to get them. |
My goodness! 60uf Duelunds! Are they the size of a football? (o: |
Yes, they were special order, they are being used in series with my mids. Out of the box it wasn't a significant difference over the Dayton film caps they replaced, but after 10 hours or so the differences became more apparent. I have about 40 hours on them now, in another 10 or so, I'm going to put the Daytons back in for comparison's sake. But I would say the biggest improvement so far is the difference in tonality. They sound more life like, more open, and a little smoother. |
I am going to order a VSF .047 (400v) and Jensen .022 Copper paper tube.
Honestly, I am ready to throw in the towel and say Ok Frederik you win.
The only reason I am trying the Jensen is Duelund does not list .022. But Face if you got 60uf they must make to any size? Seems so expensive for .022 as well! |
Face 60uf!
That must have been a special order? Have you hooked them up? How do they sound? Replacing Electrolytics or poly caps? |
I recently received a pair of 60uf VSF's and they had an interesting odor upon arrival. :D It went away in a few days though. |
Duelund copper hook up wire is here as well as Mundorf solder.
The Duelund has this kind of natural smell to it like the caps do. The VSF caps to me smell. A good natural smell.
Duelund what stops the oil from drying out? |
Are any of you going to try QuickSilver GOLD contact enhancer on your crossover parts? I think more people should know about this....it lets the music flow a lot better! |
Any of you guys switch from Push Pull to SET and what do you think?
An area I am thinking about in the future. |
I have been reading some Audio Note stuff and the only thing that concerns me about spending money on a old amp is I have not heard as SET amp. (Dave says I have the speakers for the amp 104db)
I love this quote from AN artice. I am wondering if my amp is not old enough! After all SET is older than EL84.
"To my astonishment, the most successful products at coping with Comparison by Contrast were more than 15 years old (in 1980, that is!) and the further back I went the better some of the products, especially the amplifiers, turned out to be". |
Well George (North Creek) was right. You will notice the inductor mostly though the mid range. Not what I would have expected.
The not so good part is the vintage is clearly the better inductor! Much smoother in the mid range the back ground is much blacker as well and there is much better separtion of instruments. Much more musical sounding.
The wax paper is not there for no reason!
The Duelund WPIO is $429 each and this is out of the range for me. I am unsure if or how much better it would be anyway?
The vintage inductor sounds better than the $150 North Creek and could be worth (in new prices) somewhere between $200 or $300?
I was thinking of replacing the parallel tweeter air core wax paper inductor and am not going to do that (at least for a long time) as only a Duelund WPIO (or similiar like Jensen) would be the only one worth it. They are almost $200 each.
I feel with Jensen and Duelund caps in the amp is a better place for the $ right now.
If I could only find out for sure that they were Aluminum Foil in Mylar caps. No one seems to know what they were? |
David
It is not here yet for some reason? I expect Monday.
Did you hook up your parts yet?
Crosstalk.
I disonnected the tweeter wire and there is no crosstalk into the tweeter. |
Volleyguy,
Have you installed the Duelund hook up wire to your speakers? I look forward to your impressions.
David Pritchard |
Ait
I believe you are right as well. I believe the ones Steen was talking about are these at Jensen?
https://audio.jensencapacitors.com/products/capmetpape/?crumbs
I think polyproplyne would be very good in the power supply. Even as one who does not like them in the signal path poly is very good at doing one of the two things caps do and that is getting out noise. I don't care for what they do to the signal but of course they are not in the signal when in the power supply.
I have been giving more thought to Paul Klipsch's inductor. It is not the standard steel laminate inductor that we see most often but a upside down M. I wonder if metal on the outside is to stop stay magnetic field? In my tweeter circuit the resonant trap is air core wax paper inductor. So he clearly knew of the "benefits" of air core but did not use it? I know most would say for cost reasons (which could be true) but this was not a cheaply made inductor like many of today's? He could have not done a M and no wax paper to save even more money.
In the Klipsch post I copied in Al Klappenberger was shocked at how little distortion the metal core had? He had believed Air to be much better.
Another guy in the post talked about using a large inductor and being able to disconnect the tweeter and only lost 20db of output! That is clearly NOT good. In fact to me that sounds like what is going on. My mids and highs sound rough with new inductor?
Haven't had a chance to check but it was mentioned here before of surprising level of cross talk. Paul K has gone to it seems great effort to stop that.
I am going to do some more tinkering to see what can be done. |
By the way, the motor run caps (of which I believe your ASC is a variety) are not really oil caps. They are Polypropylene caps which are bathed in oil inside a metal can for heat dissipation purposes. If you shake the can you can hear the oil slosh around inside. The reason for that construction is that they are designed for applications on electric motors in industrial environments. |
Dgarretson
You might be right (sound wise) but I am unsure on the existing electrolytics. They are old and and this is partly safety. I have heard many horror stories on blowing up electrolytics.
I am very excited about oil power supply.
One thing Duelund caps have done is reveal amazing tone but will show any upstram weakness. The EL84 amp I have is amazing until things get tough. I suspect the power supply to weak and maybe coupling cap.
I am not mad at all about the Indcutor it has made things very clear to me on what an inductor is and what they can do. I have not heard the cheap inductors like Solen. SET over on AudioKarma had compared Solens to North Creek and found North Creek much better. This does not surprise me. Solen from Parts Connexion pics looks like loose wire? I would expect sloppy sound out of that. The North Creek is like a rock and in my opinion sounds hard very great detail and could be a great inductor IF it was wrapped in something like wax paper.
What I always find surprising is that we always assume today's stuff is built better? I could make a Solen myself get a core some ties wrap the wire around the core and voila an inductor. The North Creek is at least baked for hardness. The supposedly antique vintage inductor is 28 (an exact number) pieces of laminated steel in a steel housing. Then they use a cardboard around the steel then wax paper making the whole inductor hard as rock. I could not make that! If one wants to see a cheap inductor my new Linn speakers had a piece of wire wrapped a round Iron core which one could do in 5 minutes tops!
http://www.partsconnexion.com/t/catalog/inductors.html
Here is a pic of a 1968 set of Sony's the owner says sounds good. I am not surprised air core inductors wrapped in wax paper. Hmmmm? Tell me how a new modern Solen could be better? I bet I can guess why there is not wax paper anymore on most inductors? Hmmmm? Frederik even said it takes 1 minute to manufacture some inductors. North Creek longer as at least there is some hardening.
http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=32527&forum=51
I am so glad I have done this experiment. I have said to Frederik the vintage Aluminum foil in oil midrange cap I bet is a good as his which cost $250 for the midrange alone each! My whole parts costs on the $5k Linn speakers (and they are no different than most manufactures) would be $30 or $40 for both speakers. |
If you want to try some good NOS oil caps in PS of amp, cheap Russian MBGO from ebay are physically compact in values up to 4uf/400V. Adding such caps in values 1/10-1/100 of paralleled electrolytics should be audible. They can be further bypassed with .1uf or .01uf Russian FT-series teflon. IMO you are wasting your money with new- production caps in PS. |
Now I find the article Steen had wrote on inductors?
I believe the vintage is Steel Laminate wrapped in wax paper.
http://www.meta-gizmo.net/Tri/speak/jenson.html
This does have my hopes up though of the oil filled power supply caps. Steen was a fan of oil in the power supply.
I am going to try some Jensen paper tube caps .02uf in the amp in the sizes that Duelund does not make. I have learned enough lessons on this stuff and was glad to hear Steen liked the oil power supply and it is made by Jensen.
I am going to move the inductor up to 10'away from the speaker and see if that helps if it still sounds hard does anyone want to buy a never hooked up inductor?
|
Undertow
I thought you owned Khorns? You will be glad to know they sell new in Europe for $20k a pair. Those will not come with the Alnico magnets though just the cheap ferrite ones. I seen in a British Audio Magazine a set of 30 year old Lascala's for 6,000 pounds or $10k U.S.. Yes I know they go for nowhere near that here. I am sure no doubt the SET crowd is bidding up high eff speakers across the pond. |
Undertow
I am not looking for a miracle cap.
But what if the there is a reason to wrap the inductor in wax paper? What if Mr klipsch knew something?
Most people agree Duelund makes great sounding parts. What's "new" about them? Paper, copper, cocoon silk and natural oils have all been around for 100's of millions of years!
Yes the North Creek is a monster of an inductor but it does use varnish. There is no paper and no dampening between the wires. In defence of Frederik there is clearly a difference in time of construction. I hoped (in a strange way) that Frederik is just being obsessive and I could not hear what his paper and oil does. (for cost reasons) I did tell Frederik the second best cap in the mid range (I tested) was the original Aluminum foil in oil (wayyy better than all the rest) and in fact I would love to hear it compared to Duelund's (Aluminum) because I bet I may not tell the difference. |
I just got back and was thinking just what you said Ait. (crosstalk)
I have lots of space should the inductor be as far away from the tweeter caps or the tweeter?
It was you who mention this awhile back when you got a big North Creek inductor, right?
It almost sounds like LF being sent to the incorrect drivers?
Face you could be right as well, I was thinking that might happen (DCR is cut in half) except the signal sounded distorted not just off balance?
Undertow I have had good luck (real good luck) on the parts switch when staying to the same type meaning switching out a Aluminum foil in oil for Duelund Copper in Oil. (better in every way) The problems are when the poly cap goes in the network designed for foil.
Thanks guys I will do some location switching on the coil to see if that is it. |
Volleyguy again I hate to say it for like the 10th time
But your missing so many pieces of the equation looking into one Miracle cap and inductor to solve an entire speaker curve.. First you have very old strangley P.A. Pro like low excursion woofers your trying to improve.. The added mid glare is simply due to showing the weakness now in the woofers frequency range.. Probably will need to re-tune the cabinet being its a K-Horn DAMP the hell out of the sidewalls in the triangle and add mass to the basket of the woofer itself..
Also make SURE you have I would say a minimum of 12 gauge copper, but 10 gauge pure copper wire feeding the inductor and the woofer back just the same. You need to build a crossover on several points, not just a part swap, and problem is when your crossover was designed they did not have the types of tests and software to generically get those tolerances and values perfect. So that woofer could in fact be better with a different value inductor than the original was. I mean there is several factors to the hill your climbing. Good luck |
You probably threw your speaker's balance off and the mids are now beaming. |
I am not familiar with your crossover layout, but is it possible that the inductor is causing crosstalk with other components? Are there other inductors or coils near it? Is it directly next to the high-frequency section of the crossover?
You may want to try moving the location and orientation of the inductor - if it is lying flat, try standing it on its side and turning it to point in different directions, and see if the noise decreases. |
Hysterisis
I have read about it but what does it mean sound wise?
The vintage inductor is iron core wrapped in paper and wound around the core is wire wrapped in paper.
Some say hysterisis is almost like the plague.
From the Klipsch forum interesting read and not would one would think.
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/38976.aspx
One thing inductors matter more than I thought and not where I thought or in the way I thought.
The vintage is muddier sounding in the bottom end (maybe the higher DCR) yet so far is smoother through the midrange?
I have set the North Creeks on cardboard because I sense ringing? This seems to make the voices rough. One of those things that give more detail but does not add up to more enjoyment? I switched to Audiophile CD's to make sure the inductor is not revealing CD player weakness. In the bass the North Creek is better but might come at a price.
The North Creeks might smooth out as well after all just a few hours. Sounds for sure are crisper and sharper. Piano on the vintage sounds like a blanket is over the piano. The North Creeks though give more HF noise without a doubt!
I did not expect this?
Irish65 I think I know what like about the North Creek's and what was likely better about Duelund that you could not put your finger on. This comparison is going to be very interesting.
For most Klipsch guys that have not replaced your inductor I am not sure I would waste my money. I bet many of the modern inductors with no paper sound wayyyyyy worse than what you have.
So far the vintage is better. The trade offs are much better. Smoother voices more dampening less ringing less of a stark sound. The vintage gives up some detail.
I have wired the speakers up the same to eliminate the caps having any effect. |
Inductors must break in like caps? Starting to sound much better already?
Sorry about post but I actually do that for myself to read back on initial thoughts. |
Undertow
I should say I am not playing with the power supply. (that kind of work is over my head) I am having it done by a guy who has worked on tube gear his whole life.
Installed the North Creek 10 guage inductor.
It is as I suspected not going to be near like the tweeter cap change.
George at North Creek said the biggest change I would notice would be in the midrange. This is not what one would initially expect from a woofer inductor change.
I suspect that is a reduction in boominess (because of no hysterisis) and lower DCR allows the midrange to sound cleaner?
Bass lines are easier to track but the midrange become too prominent. More detail yes, hearing things I never heard.
I have this theory on resonance. We are used to it many systems. Lots of it. When friends came over when I first had the Duelund VSF tweeter caps in for the first half hour they would all pick the vintage tweeter caps. (I did not tell them which speaker had which cap) then after half an hour on each speaker going back and forth they would all say what's wrong with the vintage cap speaker? You can't hear anything just a blurr. Then they just could not believe the difference after awhile but at first they did like lots or resonance.
In this complex relationship between drivers is where speaker designers earn there money!
One speaker has (and this is on purpose) vintage inductor, VSF midrange cap and CAST tweeter caps. The other speaker has VSF tweeter caps, VSF midrange and North Creek 10 guage inductor.
You would not believe these were even the same speakers! The difference is enormous!
This is very complex stuff!
The CAST set one lots of bass warm with great detail and balance.
The VSF/North Creek thinned out but even more detail (caused by 10 guage indcutor) but too much emphasis on midrange.
The CAST in the tweeter caps cuts noise by a massive amount. Oddly enough the tweeter cap seems to cut midrange output.
I expect that the best combo will be (that I have) the North Creek inductor with the CAST tweeter caps. |
Volleyguy
Nope never had an issue, but I made sure I was WELL above any voltage ratings... And again this is stuff you are playing with that with different power supplies nobody can tell you directly what to do with it. |
In one of the amps I bought had Mullard's in for EL84. I had no idea they were that much money. They sound awesome!
I almost feel quilty using them.
http://www.mullardtubes.com/MullardPowerTubes.aspx |
Undertow
What is that proceed with caution. You almost say that like you have had something explode?
The ASC at 4000uf do you mean 40uf? Confused?
North Creek inductor is huge. The size make the original look like a toy. I do not know what that will mean to sound. Should be interesting. |
Elviukai
What I should have said with a SOLEN Bypass used even on top of the best electro is better than the single Electro alone in many cases... That being said obviously in most electrical applications of a power supply a solen 1000 uF or whatever does not exist anyway, but a Black gate with a solen bypass can still make it better..
But hey in some applcations maybe a flat black gate with no bypass is the better solution, neither here nor there from my understanding as the BG's are not even made anymore so taking some cheaper electros bypassed by a decent film is the best route for most cases. Thats my clarification. Proceed with caution! |
""even a cheap solen is higher grade than the best Black GAte electro caps""
Actualy NO. BG AC and N series is better than Solen both subjectively and objectively. This is from listening and measuring practice. Rule that Film acap is better than electrolytic doesnt aply in all cases. |
You can NOT really do a full film poly Solen power supply.. Basically due to most electrolytic caps are 100 uF up to 100,000 uF depending on what your doing
As well as voltage issues. Only thing you can do is take a good rated Electro cap like your ASC or whatever and lets say its 4000 uF mounted, its 630 volts AC rated or whatever, and take a Solen cap simply soldered parallel (bridged across) the 2 pins on your Electro cap
This is a bypass, same as a Crossover bypass taking a 10 uF cheap cap and using a .01 Duelund or something of Higher grade in parallel not really changing the value of the crossover point but simply putting a smaller better faster cap to enhance the results.
Bottom line is Electrolytics are typically cheaper, smaller, and HUGE value capacitors, you could never fit or use a Film cap of these sizes in those locations or applications. So thats why we are talking about taking a small Film cap which even a cheap solen is higher grade than the best Black GAte electro caps and basically bridging it across
AS the big value electrolytics are so big normally even 50 uF or 40 uf, in order to be effective from my experience and from others on the subject, use at least a 1 uF film cap to do the bypass
Be careful however these Film caps are only rated in VDC, so DC voltage, not AC
The caps cannot take nearly as much AC power as they can DC power due to the Plates have to take on the ALternating back and forth energy causing them to vibrate and shift much more than a DC application from my understanding.
Beyond that yes I have actually modded an entire power supply in a phono amp which is very critical for noise and overall quality to use the original big 1000 uF electrolytic caps, and bypassed them each with a Solen 400 volt DC rated fast cap 1 uF each. There was about 5 or 6 electros in this circuit if I remember correctly..
That being said your applications will vary, and I cannot recommend specifically using DC rated caps like this in all applications due to I have no idea how high of voltage you will actually see at these points
But I can say this, typically people building their own Differential Filters for AC power incoming to their system can and do use 600 volt DC rated, 800 volt DC rated, and 1200 volt Dc rated caps, that means they hook them directly inside their power outlets feeding their system. And they never have an issue as that is 120 volt plus coming staight from your outlet with 15 to 20 amps of current!
I believe that a DC 600 volt rated cap will at least take on 200 to 220 volts AC, and a 400 volt cap maybe a little less or more
Depending, But I am not an engineer and will not say that a cap would not Swell or explode under this! Mainly make sure its a GOOD film cap, and the dielectrics and sidewalls can take the heat. I mean from what I was told by a VERY high up the food chain in audio engineer that in fact I used some 800 volt dc and 1200 volt DC rated film caps for these applications and he was far beyond confident that even 50 years from now with fatigue these caps would never fail.
Again Hi end audio has no limits. There is no good standards, many things are WAY overbuilt for the task. Proceed with caution.
As for the results, well I can say this in my trials
Always fairly positive, Very quiet incoming AC power, very good frequency response, Lower distortion, better overall smooth sound without the edge or glare sometimes apparent with many cheaper electrolytic caps..
Good luck |
The North Creek inductor is here.
Like all of you guys I am trying to get the most improvement for the $ I have or am willing to spend.
I actually like it when someone says your nuts. It keeps you in check. I agree with Dgarretson that a system is only as good as the weakest link. I have tried to go after those right away.
I choose Air Core low DCR inductor as this was talked about by Steen as area of importantce. Since I had Iron and maybe some corrosion and a higher DCR I am expecting improvement here. Just not sure how much.
I also choose to fix the power supply in the vintage tube amps as they are likely worn anyway. So again going from Electrolytic and possibly/probable worn (meaning going bad) another area of weakness to top notch poly power supply and maybe even adding some uf's.
Another area is Klispch used lamp cord wire back then and cheesy guage. So I have went to plastic free Duelund and heavier guage. So possibly corrosion and for sure not good quality to beging with. So again I am hoping for some improvement. But also a area that is not a waste anyway.
So guys feel free to shoot down my thoughts and say something like you should dump the old amp. Are not basic tube circuits pretty much the same? Just parts quality they are done with?
My thoughts are getting a new/newer amp with a top notch power supply and top notch coupling caps would not be cheap either.
For about $1500 or so you can have either all AN, Jensen, V-Caps in coupling and ASC in power supply good vintage tubes etc. To me I would think that would sound very good for $ involved and since looks are not a factor what do you think? |
Undertow
Your results seem to concur with Tempo Electric who rates the Solens as Tier B with the Mundorf Supreme and of course cost much less.
I only have that one Mundorf sitting here that did not sell the rest did.
I am rebuilding right now to ASC caps (only because of what Tempo said Tier A and not that expensive) in the power supply for two reason the Electrolytics could be done anyway and am very curious what top notch power supply means?
Duelund has been a blessing and a curse. They sound fantastic but makes you start to think and that costs money!
What does a good air core inductor mean? (which I hope is here today)
Then it is what does top notch coupling caps mean?
What about Duelund wire? (which I hope is here today as well)
Undertow have you ever tried a full poly (Solen) power supply? So what does even bypass mean as far as sound? |
The mundorfs are not a Voltage risk, however yes if they are any type of oil I would not use them as they will be in a possible leaking or high heat location..
By the way perfect Film bypass caps for electrolytics I have been using with Zero issues or failures over the years are the Solen Fast caps.. 400 volt, unless you have a really high power appication.
They are fairly small and compact, and they will sound the same in a power bypass cap just the same as a Duelund will! I have used them over the top grade Black Gates with excellent results..
Also use 1.0 uF size on everything and your fine as long as they will fit, any smaller value is almost pointless on big value uF electrolytic caps. One issue is they have exposed solid leads with no insulation dielectric, so you don't want them to touch anything. Otherwise you could pay 15 times the cost for a no more superior cap and use the Auricap yellows, or kimbers that are the same in the 600 volt versions which are harder to find, but they do have regular wire leads on them with insulation. |
I believe Ralph from Atmasphere was warning against using PIO caps in tube amps in another thread on Audiogon - his quote was:
"Paper and Oil caps can develop electrical leakage over time that can damage other parts- this is something that most other dielectrics including Teflon don't tend to do!"
I have heard various stories about the Mundorf SIO caps - some say they are metallized paper film in oil, other say they are polypropylene in oil. If they are truly paper, then I would hesitate to use them in that application. |
Ait I think the voltage is 800VAC. Mundorf's are not really a oil cap. Know do they sound good there I have no idea? It is just sitting here so I thought I might as well use it. |
I wouldn't use an oil cap in a tube power supply. Too hot, too high voltage - better off with the regular Mundorf Supreme there. |
Dave
I have one Mundorf Supreme Silver in Oil and I understand they can be tied into the power supply as a bypass cap? Anyone ever try that?
It would be with the all ASC caps. I figure might as well use the cap. |
For months I have been confused. As soon as a 50 year old tube amp pulverized my $10k SS amp and pre I have had to know why?
Where was the 50 years of progress?
Why did a capacitor (Duelund) made of nothing more than copper and paper and natural oils sound wayyyy better than any new tech poly cap I tried?
Why did this vintage amp sound so good after all I have heard some of the most exotic new tube amps? I admit I have only heard the tube amps through speakers running poly caps and as I already found all it takes is one to change sound. One of the speakers was Dynaudio which I heard but do not know for sure use Solen caps. If they do how could any amp sound good through Solen's?
Stereophile admitted to vintage being very good with no "audiophile" parts and NO advertising money coming to the magazine. Why?
I thought the vintage amp had foil caps but I think it is metalised polyester I have been told. (from someone on this thread) Audio Note use Vishay ERO in their Level 1 amps. The very same as the vintage amp?
A quote from Peter on the Audio Note website
"In all our Level One amplifiers, such as the OTO Phono Push Pull, we use the green ERO MKP metalized polyester capacitors, these cheap and cheerful industrial capacitors have been chosen through extensive listening tests against practically every commonly available polypropylene, polycarbonate, polystyrene and polyester capacitor on the market. They are far from perfect, but from a sonic standpoint they are purely detractive, meaning that they lose information rather than add it (which every polypropylene, Teflon etc. capacitor I have ever heard does to excess)".
Is that why the vintage sounds so good? A fluky good cheap capacitor?
Tony Gee seems to like them? Though he thinks they are poly? Audio Note says not? |
Anyone ever try Audio Note copper foil capacitors in electronics?
I really like the vintage foil caps which are Vishay ERO FOL. I do not want to change the supreme tone. Audi Note is not a fan of any poly caps or Teflon. They say every poly or Teflon caps adds to the sound and at least the cheap ERO caps subtract rather than add.
The one dealer I buy some gear from says the Audio Note sounds smoother than Jensen's?
After listening for months now I just want stick with foil. SNS did not go crazy over V-Cap's, says they have a signature? I keep hearing that and that does not inspire confidence. 400 hour break in is not fun either! Also remember what one poly cap did in the crossover killed the whole sound.
I will try some Duelund in areas of room and critical circuit.
Power supply being done this week. Looking forward to that as well |
no i didnt change mind ,i will use them. one of my project configuration will be 200uf(4x50uf aluminium shunted with 10-12uf CAST) in the series xover midrange highpass(where the same signal goes to tweeter as wel) anyone who contacted personaly I will try gladly to help. have fun in projects. |
Elviukai
What value of caps? (voltage as well)
Just change your mind on project? |
I may provide new unused some VSF Cu and few CAST caps at reasonable price. also 2-3,3ohm resistors. can trade or sell. have fun with tweakings |
Face I just got an e-mail from Parts Connexion that beginning today 20% off everything. |
