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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
In my opinion Audioman there is absolute better as you mentioned, foil vs. plastic then in fine tuning it can be synergy of every part in the system which can be what works best in synergy.

Jupiter does not make 2.2uf Copper Foil 100v cap that I used in my speakers. The smallest is 3.3uf and it is $200

At my size Duelund RS 2.2 uf is $182.


I keep hearing that Jupiter is much cheaper and it is in the .01uf size and I have some of those but over the range there is not much difference? (except in low uf)

I find in small values the Duelund RS to be more dynamic than Jupiter and are physically bigger. (albeit more expensive)



grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
Jupiter Copper foils do come in 2.2uf both in 100v and 600v. They are my favorites over even Duelund CAST. Want to really have the ultimate for less than crazy cost? Combine that 2.2uf Jupiter copper foil cap with the amazing Duelund .01 silver foil bypass cap and be ready to smile big!

500 hours of burn in before these caps are at their absolute best. Compare 200 hours vs 500 hours and they sound sooo much better at 500 hours. Not even close.   Most folks don’t realize or believe this fact. 
gammag
10 posts
 

@audioman58 


Hello audioman58! :)

I was wondering about using the .22uF/600V Jupiter Copper Foil caps in some tube amps I have. I have Russian Teflon's already installed, and was going to try the Jupiter CF's and also add a .01uF Silver Duelund in parallel with the Jupiter. Do you think this would be OK? I've done this before with speaker crossovers, but not in a tube amp. Should I give it a try, or just use the Jupiter cap by itself? Thanks!

audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,135 posts
 
To Gammag.   You can use any variation you choose if you have the room. 
I have the Duelund bypass caps on my speakers.  Here is a tip.
You $$ can go much further is say you buy the value you need say a .33uf
The Newer Duelund Jam caps  have Exactly  the same New type of Tinned Copper foil oil in paper dielectric, the only difference is the treated paper case which does make it better ,but not at 3x the cost just because of its case. It us for sure better then the Audyn Copper.  The tin splits the difference vs silver, a great balance 
I have 3.3uf in my preamp could not be happier  far better then the Mundorf Supreme silver oil I had . I now have a.22 Jam on my speaker to complement 
The .01uf Duelund Tinned Copper bypass cap  .for the price of 1 .01 Duelund bypass  I can almost buy2- .22 if  Duelund Jam caps 20x the 1uf And 94% of The cast performance. For myself an excellent investment. Inside Identical tinned Copper, paper in oil, the Putter jacket has the damping treated paper,
Vs the Aluminum I wrap 3m electrical tape around it 2x ,and small a chunk wrap on the leggs heated to form truly damps the caps at 1/3rd the cost well worth 
The effort. Myself and friends has found similar results, the take 400 hours + 
To fully runin on the big 3uf cap  .22 give a week 150 hours.
gammag
10 posts
 

Thanks Audioman58!

I just installed the Jupiter CF's that replaced the FT-3 Russian Teflon's. Appears that the volume output may have dropped just a tiny fraction. I know that they are new and need some hours on them. I guess I'll hear some slight changes as time goes on. There is a very slight graininess, but I imagine that is expected until they have some hours of burn time. I am hearing some finer details in the music though. The bass is good! I may wait and put some hours on them and perhaps later, I can add some .01uF/3000V Cornell Dubilier 940C's. BTW, are you a member on DIYaudio or Audiocircle? Thanks again! I will keep your suggestions in mind!

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