Can you imagine a world without vinyl?

As I use vinyl (i.e. I listen to vinyl as well as the many digital formats) I wouldn't really want a world without it:)
Anyway, I grew up buying vinyl...

Of course things are volatile and vinyl users are very much dependant on continued availability of, say, cartridges. Also availability of LP's -- but if the collection is large enough (say, 1/10th of Albert Porter's :)), there's no immediate problem there.

Let's consider the various responses written in response to this "love-fest". First we have Jyprez, who writes: "While 99% of my listening is vinyl because of its sonic superiority (particularly for the 50's and 60's Jazz that I listen to), I would switch in a nanosecond to an alternative digital format that provided analog quality sound without the many disadvantages of vinyl like surface noise, inner groove and other tracking distortions etc. What's amazing to me is that vinyl, as primitive as it is, has not been bettered in over 50 years. It's time we move on." This is an admission that vinyl IS the superior medium, and that the only real problem with vinyl, which again remains the superior format, is noise. Noise was made an issue by the Digital Brigade, who inflated the issue out of all proportion to a Neurosis/borderline psychosis as a means of promoting digital formats. So, lets throw the baby (music) out with the bathwater (noise). Plus, parallel-tracking tonearms eliminate end-of-side and tracing distortion if it is so bothersome (isn't to me, in all properly set-up pivoted tonearms/cartridge combos it is either inaudible or barely worth mentioning), and quality turntables eliminate or reduce noise drastically, and more if one chooses cartridges which are quite in the groove, seeing as it's such a problem.

Tgrisham writes that the cost of vinyl is too high. Again this is entirely misleading. I rarely if ever buy expensive vinyl, and again, a turntable of sufficient quality (and I'm talking a starting point of only a Rega P3) makes of used vinyl in good condition at a few bucks a pop - MUCH cheaper than digital formate, even used - very listenable and quiet. The trick is to buy used vinyl in decent condition, it's not all hacked-up Sally Ann disasters. He admits that we can only aproach vinyl. Lack of frequency response?!? Since when? Get a better turntable and tonearm. Digital cheaper?!? If it means that you have to use "tube output stages, reclocking, CD treatments, plus tube amplification" to achieve ONLY "most of what LPs offer" - and where are the compromises made, perhaps musicality? - then where are the savings, where are the advantages?

All of these objections are also admissions the LP is superior, and misleading in all kinds of ways - exaggeration of noise and distortions, exaggerations of cost, and deliberate diminution of abilities (frequency). Get over the noise fellow neurotics, and concentrate on the music. Back in the days of gramophones people listened ecstatic at the music emanating - with FAR more noise and distortions - from their lacquers on a steel needle through a horn. Why and how? Because the Digital Brigade has not yet raised noise to the level of a neurosis (same as various industries built on creating previously unrecognized problems in order to sell their solutions), and so they simply heard the music and were glad, in fact, ecstatic.

Me, I've decided to stop throwing good money after bad, trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, a computer's approximation of music. There is a way of improving the sound of vinyl: try alternate solutions with what we already have: better tonearms (need not be more expensive, consider the MG-1) better cartridges (need not be more expensive), better turntables (need not be more expensive). Address your various individual problems, keep the baby, clean up the bathwater, don't let yourselves be manipulated by a cynical industry (cynicism DEFINES current industry, Big Business). For the Here and Now, vinyl IS the superior medium. Let's improve IT, there are many ways which already exist.

In another thread, I stated the outcome of my vinyl experiment and it is everything Tgrisham said. There can be lots of overlap between analog and dgital if you take the rest of the system into account.

Arthur

What we need is a hyperanalog format. The challenge is to find a high storage, robust physical format for recording and playback. As long as we insist on using ones and zeros in music, that's all we'll get.

Another view? Yes, I could live without vinyl. The cost of high end vinyl and LPs of sufficient quality is too high. We can approach vinyl for less money. I am tired of the surface noise and lack of frequency response at both ends. If I bought a turntable and cartridge worth many thousands, a phono stage worth thousands and bought new LP pressings at $25+ each to replace all my records, I could surpass CDPs. In the meantime I continue to search for CDPs that reproduce life-like music. By using tube output stages, reclocking, CD treatments, plus tube amplification it is possible to achieve most of what LPs offer, at lower cost and an easier to keep medium. Sorry, but I had to interject. This LP lovefest was just too much.

I can easily imagine a world without vinyl. It would be a world in which excellent sound would be achieved without the sonic compromises of digital or the convenience and many other compromises of vinyl. Both formats are clearly seriously flawed and hardly to be lauded as some ultimate achievement as the poster seems to suggest. While 99% of my listening is vinyl because of its sonic superiority (particularly for the 50's and 60's Jazz that I listen to), I would switch in a nanosecond to an alternative digital format that provided analog quality sound without the many disadvantages of vinyl like surface noise, inner groove and other tracking distortions etc. What's amazing to me is that vinyl, as primitive as it is, has not been bettered in over 50 years. It's time we move on.

This is just an exercise in masochism. Just stick red-hop pokers in my eyes and be done with it. Fortunately the Truth will out, and the LP is making a comeback! Off to the growing number of record shops in my area! CDs, DVDs, SACDs and various other waterproof discs make great coasters.

I could frankly give a hang about the audio angle of vinyl or turntables -- it's a significantly flawed medium from the sonic standpoint (among others) and is not synonymous with the word "analog" as many audiophiles carelessly assume it to be, and I have nothing against digital in principle -- but I certainly love vintage records and good record collections, because it's all about passion for the music, the artists, and the times. Always nice to learn of another Agonner who collects and plays vintage 7" 45's, the medium whose demise (replaced, badly, by the music video) signalled the beginning of the end of rock's golden age. Now if I can just quintuple the size of my collection I'll be hot on Paladin's heels (though one turntable should continue to suffice, jukebox excepted).

Pawlowski, why would it be hard to count if you had uniform shelving and counted one unit of a rack of vinyl and multiply....and how do you have time to even wonder that? :)
It took my father over 10 yrs to get through his collection of music wich was total about 9,000 or so........ he goes in Alphabetical order, now during that time he added countless new tittles in my head I figure it will take atleast 15 years this time and he is still on the "A" tittles.

i've been a serious vinyl collector since 1966 (12 years old)...not from the standpoint that i believe it to be somehow superior fidelity....i just think lp's and 45's are cool. turntables are fun too....growing up, the serious audiophiles owned massive tape recorders (reel to reel), on top of owning turntables which were more for joe public. our local record store (remember those) stocked tons of jazz and classical on reel to reel....when reel to reel began to fade as a purist media, my father and his audio buddies mourned its demise. i could have cared less. in my mind, my friends and i related to rock music and it's primary medium..the vinyl disc. today, my wife and daugher, and most friends and associates could care less about my records. they love music, in an shape or form. its about access to music, music appreciation, and the media does not matter. hundreds of thousands of cd titles are gonna disappear slowly over the next decade...as much as my first love is vinyl..i will miss the cd too. the music you like is who you are, not the media.

Great string! I have been listening since late 50's (my dad owned a zenith HiFi)and never have gotten out of vinyl. For many years my trusty dual 721 table had served me well but until I moved up to a different table (dual finally died)and purchased a moving coil, I really did not fully appreciate what great detail vinyl will offer if presented properly. After 40+ years, I continue to be impressed what this media can deliver. I was sad when the CD craze moved the recording industy to ignore this wonderful venue. Thanks to the diehards who have never given up! It is delightful also to see the younger generation discovering vinyl. My daughter (19) is into this bigtime going by thrift stores and garage sales picking up some classics. She is in love with the big band era and beams when Frankie or Glenn is on her system. The industry may listen to us afterall and bring this medium back.

Of course, but not a world without music.

I had a friend over the other evening and re-introduced him to the joys of vinyl. Played a few Mercuary Living Presence, London & EMI from the 60's, MOFI, Nautilas, and a few other jems.

His ears will never be the same!

I am going to filter block ebay-I can't keep spending $25-$30.each on the new releases I want.Will the record companies PLEEEASE get their s**t together and realize we music buyers want this stuff? Stop forcing us to buy it as imports? Who knows,might even save the Ipod/MP3 stricken failing music industry by generating profit from people that actually still buy music!

I'm an audiophile of 30 years who became a home based dealer for many fantastic products. My reference system is the Evolution Acoustic speakers (finest I ever experienced) , DarTZeel amp/pre-amp, EMM Labs new 1 box CDSA, Grand Prix isolation and the Grand Prix Monaco table / Dynavector 507II and XV1S cartridge. This new EMM player is so superb that I can still enjoy listening to digital (serious listening I mean) even after playing vinyl. However, my analog front end is a whole other animal. Definitely superior in many very important ways. In a nutshell, it sounds organic, palpable and very real. Of course, most don't have a front end of this quality so they can't realize the potential of vinyl. Collecting and using vinyl is a totally different mindset and dedication over digital. I thought I had a lot of LPs (2500), but 35K is quite staggering. I have seen things come and go, but as digital has improved, so has analog playback, so I'm into vinyl for the long haul and very thrilled about it.
PS - Records definitely sound better after being cleaned on my Loricraft machine vs being cleaned on my previous VPI machine. The LPs got a bit quieter (only sometimes) after being cleaned on the VPI, but with the Loricraft, WOW!!!!! Noticably blacker background, much better sense of depth and space, more clarity and resolution.

I'm all in- Lps rule. A few weeks ago i presented a dear friend with a rebuilt Lenco. There were abot 30 people at the birthday party and everyone said they were going to start buying LPs again. Well, almost everyone.
One person who I met at the party left my listening room about an hour ago. But most imprtantly, he left me with 6 old Duke Ellington Lps, 4 T Bone Walker LPs (Barney Kessel played on a couple, I didn't know that), 3 Ben Venuti LPs, Louie Armstrong. He has tons more which he will be bringing over!
My neighbor who is in his late 70s, has a fantastic collection of jazz Lps to grace his Dynalab amp and Linn table. He can't stand digital sound- way too harsh/grainy in the highs and uninvolving.
Yes, I prefer LPs and I like changing the music after one side. CDs seem boring in comparison.
Lps sound fantastic on my Lenco/RB300/Denon 103R!

Paladin,

You are definitely the highwater mark for all of us. How many hours a day do you listen to vinyl?

I hate this...in the never ending, self deluding, not quite successful (my vinyl days are 30 years behind me, but I still rememember!) battle of trying to convince myself I can live without vinyl, along comes this utterly convincing, inarguable & oft repeated, (now I KNOW I'm missing something) argument.......where do I start?

WOW! What a collection. Anytime you need anyone to come by, clean a few records, make sure that they still work, you let me know. I'll buy a plane ticket and sleep in the garage.

MY only question is how do you possibly enjoy it all? Assuming an LP is 40 minutes long, that is 1,400,000 minutes = 23333 hours = 972 days = 2.66 YEARS.

Oh, and how in the world do you know what you have? I mean, is there anything you see in a record store and know that you don't own it?

Yeh, well, when you get a decent hifi system like the new bose super surround concert in a box with noise elimination headphones you'll realize what you've been missing. When you do I will be happy to store your old unusable LP's for you to celebrate your discovery of modern technology. Yeh, that's what I'll do.

Paladin, I'm with you.

My only question is, at this point, how do you really know that you have 50,000 33s and 45s? That would entail about 14 hours of non-stop counting assuming counting 1 per second!

No I can't! And you are my new hero. I wonder how much your collection weighs?? Incredible system too. You must be the kid in the vinyl candy store.

I am presently at a point with my analog set-up, in which I am not even tempted to play cds. I am grateful for the continuing release of new vinyl; re-issues, as well as the current. Without vinyl playback I likely would have lost interest in high end. My love for music, especially contemporary jazz performances, demands I continue buying cds,and I do enjoy those Japanese mini lps.

I could not agree more...extra work...declaratively worth it.

Paladin,

I admit to being a vinyl junkie - with 7 turntables, 11 cartridges & 8 arms along with 35K albums & 15K 45's.

I don't know how you have any room with that many LP's on hand !

Tell you what, I'm willing to come to your home and carry off a significant quantity of those old LP records, just because I'm a nice guy.

:^).