For sure you certainly don't need a system at the level of Mikelavigne's or anything remotely close to hear what a well recorded record in 33 or 45 rpm has to offer.
All though I'm sure Mikes system would be a real thrill to experience.
If the sonics on the original master are excellent in the first place and haven't lost their sparkle over the years.
And these re-issue companies do the best to their ability then their release will be the treasure to own for any particular music that you enjoy.
Anyone with a decades old established record collection today is well ahead of the game of course.
However I would not want to be starting a collection today from scratch.
Choosing certain recommended re-issues which may already exist in your collection and finding the re-issue superior of your favorite music makes all the time and effort you put into building a system pay off big.
Think of the alternatives to today's re-issues, not only the music you like but wanting sonics to match.
I'm positive Thomasheisigs 1959 record of Waldon Facade at the top of this thread sells for more then $50.00 for a nice clean copy.
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jdaniel13..yes. i own lots of them too( no 45 rpm 'classical' releases though). I prefer long players that are indeed long players(the way the artists envisioned them). putting out two or more versions of a title (150-180-200 gram, 33&1/3 and 45 rpms are driven as much by sales as sound). there is a novelty and collectible aspect as well. As for my systems, they sound pretty good. I've also heard lots of A/B comparisons on lots of new high end tables, and as far back as the 1970's in pressing plants. If changing a record every couple of tunes is not a pain for you, enjoy. |
I have an old copy of Night in Tunisia. I purchased the new reissues to see how much better, if any, they were. I was talking about reissues. I'm not nuts about used records, as I find them vastly over-graded. |
Chayro, of course those albums are available at 33 1/3-they're both reissues, so the originals (or reissues other than the 45 rpm) will always be available on the used market. The Evans/Bennett album will probably be somewhat harder to find, but Ebay, right now, has many copies of 'Night in Tunisia' for sale, including some sealed.
Surely, as a vinyl player, you're exposed to buying used-right? |
Jaybo, have you heard one on a good system? |
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Johnbrown - the last two 45 reissues I purchased, Bill Evans/Tony Bennett and Night in Tunisia, were not available on 33, at least that I could see. That aside, it seems that most of you are fine with the growing number of 45 reissues, so it appears that the record companies have the pulse of the consumer better than I thought. |
Why? Why not treat yourself once and awhile? I have both excellent originals and 45 reissues of Prokofiev's Scythian Suite/Oranges (Mercury), Reiner's Mussy Pics at Exhibition, Saint Saens/Munch Organ Symphony and Ravel/Munch Daphnis. (RCA) Hear it now and hear it loudly: with one exception, the 45rpms beat the heck out of the originals in matters of transparency, lower noise floor, sense of huge acoustic space, (easily heard in soft passages), tighter bass, silky strings and--most important--the retention of the ineffable "boogie factor" of the originals, something I missed in the corresponding 33rpm reissues. The exception is the Munch/Daphnis: there is not the stunning increase in transparency, the untangling of lines in complex and thick writing, (such as the final climax of the Daybreak), that the other 45's exhibit. It may simply be that the master tape is congested in those places to begin with. My lowly cart sure likes them. (Dyna 20 XL) |
Nicely described, Mike. Agree totally.
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As to the OP-seems like an odd objection on the face of it. Virtually (I'm being conservative-I'd imagine *all*) of the 45rpms being released have a 33 1/3 original, and most have many 33 1/3 reissues. i.e., the OP should just buy the 33 1/3 rpm issues of the 45 rpm records that he loathes so. Sometimes what we perceive as issues-just ain't. |
Agree totally with Rushton on the RCA Classic 45's; i have them all and play them frequently. i also have some of the RCA originals and the 45's are a whole new level of musical energy and information.
A few of them are slightly 'hot' on top for my vdH Colibri (which itself is a bit tipped up) and i turn down my tweeter gain.
a few others besides those 4 Rush mentions that i really enjoy are the Mussorsky, 'Pictures'; the Rimsky-Korsakov, 'Shaherazade', and the Heifetz 'Brahms Violin Concerto'.
If you ever wanted to demonstrate what high end audio can be to someone who has never heard a high end system; these 45's played on a quality tt will do it. or show a digital fan how a tt can sound. the 45's are pretty much....game, set and match (except for master tapes from The Tape Project).
for Classical lovers my favorite 45rpm demo disc is the first disc for 'The Royal Ballet'. breathtaking!
for rock fans i ask what is their favorite Led Zepplin cut? the 45rpm box set has them all. we might play the cd, then the excellent Classic 33 rpm version, and then the 45. the 45 makes the 33 sound dead and flat in comparison. the 45 LZ set energizes every molecule in the room. they are a force of nature. way more information.
yeah, the 45's basically rule.
don't get me wrong; i love 33's and the best DTD 33's can be on the same level as 45's to some degree. 33's have nothing to apologize for.
the better your vinyl system is; the more headroom a 45 has to operate in. lower noise floor, more ability to communicate space and dynamic contrasts, deeper bass, more top end air. i can understand why some people are not as 'taken' by 45's as others. but that is true of any type of software; as any system matures more information is revealed. the big thing about 45's is just how much information is there to be found. |
Rushton I agree , Classic Records have done a few exceptional 45 rpm re-issues that really do stand out and are treasures.
Pure Pleasure is another company with some absolutely fabulous re-issues.
Too bad Speakers Corner and Pure Pleasure don't release more select titles in 45 rpm and single side at that. |
Regarding some comments on the 45 rpm RCA classical reissues, I continue of the opinion that the Classic Records 45rpm reissues are vastly superior to the originals (that I've been able to hear) and superior to any of the 33 rpm reissues. Not to offend those who love the originals, which definitely have an appeal for being warm, smooth and luscious, but to my ears the originals also sound compressed, congested and rolled off. If you're a classical music lover and you haven't heard some of these 45 rpm Classic Records reissues, it's worth finding a friend who has some and taking a listen. (Anyone near Richmond, Virginia, is welcome to listen here.) As with all things, some are better than others simply because the recording and master tapes are better.
Four Classic Records 45 rpm RCA reissues to recommend: the Rozsa Violin Concerto with Heifetz (LSC 2767-45); the Vieutemps Violin Concerto No. 5 with Heifetz (LSC 2603-45); the Royal Ballet Gala Performances (LSC 2327-45); and the Sibelius Finlandia with Mackerras (LSC 2336-45).
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Agree with Thomasheisig:The original RCAs sound better than the re-issues.Must be the original tube driven units-more natural/organic.Especially "Bob n Ray".
I believe the analogy between running reel-to-reel decks holds true for analog:The faster, the better.
I loved Harry Belafonte,but the 45 re-issue has a smoother response and better detailing.Just LOVE:Jamaican Farewell. |
Birdies - I changed from the Armageddon to the Lingo2, as there was just too much good music coming out on 45. That Linn adaptor is impossible. |
We've had, and will continue to have, a lot of 33rpm reissues: Speakers Corner, Classic Records, Analogue Productions, Pure Pleasure... All have done and will be doing 33rpm reissues. The 45rpm reissues are a special treasure. For most of us, these will be the best sonics in which we will ever be able to hear these recordings. I only wish we could have more classical music issued at 45 rpm with the same care as Music Matters is devoting to the Blue Note 45rpm reissue series. May they continue!
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LP = Long Play. I never had an awesome TT like you guys do but I used to buy roughly half of my music as 12" 45 RPM in the old days. Some of the best sound I EVER heard was from these 45 RPM's (perhaps I am being nostalgic). Part of the benefit is that a 12" single 45 is INTENDED to be played back on an awesome Dance Club system costing many tens of thousands of dollars more than average Joe at home, and more importantly, this soudn is never intended to be heard in a car (where most music is heard these days). This is partly why the sound quality was so good.
There is plenty of dynamic range in a dance club at 105 db SPL because there is little to no masking problem and the amplifiers and speakers can actually handle a large dynamic range without distorting. A lot of stuff mixed to sound good on radio anticpates that it needs to sound good in a car where you get terrible masking from background noise....not as bad as listening to music in the shower but nevertheless a compressed crap sound will be more audible in your car than a high quality recording.
Recently, I have confirmed that the "production and target market" does indeed mean that recording quality is very different. I have found that 12" singles made for dance clubs also sound much better on CD (where in theory there is absolutely no dynamic range advantage over the regaulr album CD like you get with a Vinyl 45 RPM versus the compressed LP, Long Play) |
Another factor is that some of us own turntables like the Linn LP 12 powered by a Naim Armageddon, which is not 45-capable. The new Impulse remasters seem to be at 45 only, which leaves us out of it. |
I have a number of these and almost all sound better and some sound stunningly better. If the best fidelity matters then these are the best.
Why collect them all? Well, at least as of now when they go out of print they tend to go up in value. That may not hold in the long term (remember beanie babies) and of course some titles are more desirable than others but you can make some money on them now. |
The 45s do sound really good, but you've got to weigh both the PITA factor and the extra cost over a 33. I only buy them if its a particular favorite record of which I want the absolute best available pressing. Otherwise I stick with 33s. Out of several hundred albums I think I have about five of these things.
There are a lot of people who will buy - for example - all of the Blue Note reissues just to collect them all. But if you don't like that particular record why bother? |
****The original is in this area much better, but when you don't know it, the 45 Reissue is great And much cheaper.****
I don't mind so much getting up to change a record, my record player is near my chair. However I wouldn't play 45 rpm all day though.
You may notice the beginning of a well recorded 33 rpm Lp sounds its best.
As the cartridge traverses towards the centre ,the music sounds slightly differant, not consistent from start to finish.
The birth of 45 rpm in 1948 by RCA Victor, calculus was used to show that the optimum use of a record of constant rotational speed occures when the innermost record diameter is half the outermost record diameter.
Peter Copeland, British Library Sound Archives.
Basically groove velocity is important.
Much has been written.
Anyway at the moment I'm enjoying the MusicMatters and Analogue Production 45 rpm Blue Note reissues. |
The 45 have more space for the grooves and in Theory more Dynamic (depends on the Mastering). But lost information (high frequency, Color) from old Originals (LSC etc.) can't be brought back. I did a comparison with Walton Facade and the CR-45 Reissue. The Original is in this area much better, but when you don't know it, the 45 Reissue is great. And much cheaper. |
Maybe the people involved in the licensing, remastering etc. release popular LPs cut at 45rpm because they believe that provides the best sound available today.
They seem to genuinely care about the product, in other words they are as nerdy about this hobby as the rest of us!
Besides, almost every 45rpm re-issue I've bought seems to be available at 33 1/3.
I agree it's a lot of cleaning, takes up more storage space and you have to get up more often. But man it does sound good! I haven't bothered to compare the two different speeds, but I believe others have.
I've got a Transrotor Fat Bob S turntable, SME 309 arm, Benz Ruby 3, Herron VTPH-2 phono stage. The records are meticulously cleaned with a Clearaudio Smart Matrix. My speakers are 22 year old Klipsch.
So I don't have the best system available, especially regarding speakers, but I can sure appreciate the quality of these releases. |
