Can we finally put Reel to Reel out of its misery? Put it to rest people.
The format is dying and too expensive to repair properly. Heads wear out so easy and many out there are all worn.
High quality technicians are either retired or long gone. Its such an inconvenient format that can be equalled by nakamichi easily in tape decks.
Retire it please put them in museums.
High quality technicians are either retired or long gone. Its such an inconvenient format that can be equalled by nakamichi easily in tape decks.
Retire it please put them in museums.
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So many gave up on the turntable when the CD format arrived look now a true audiophile brings back that format and look at how many old and new MFGS ARE thriving.. tubes another Format was almost gone when the transistor arrived...again a industry that is going strong.. i will never insist anyone to change there preference of equipment but bring your favorite LP, TAPE, DAC, DIGITAL FORMAT AND SIT DOWN AND A/B tube and transistor . I’ve owned quite a few high line transistor amps / preamps . But I just love that sound a-tube producers A TEAC 10R R/R my VPI TURNTABLE.. and yes I do own a CD player and it’s a jolida 100 ( 3 12AX7, 3 12At7. Tubes it’s heaven |
I just rebuilt a wollensak 8075 cruel format , but I love that format and my wife and I play our treasured collections, her system is a Dynaco stereo 416 I just rebuilt, Dyanco PAS 4 just upgraded all tubes and caps. VPI prime TURNTABLE JOLIDA 100 CD player and Klipcsh Reference RP- 8060FA speakers.. |
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What seems to come up as a conclusion is that reel-to-reel is a thriving format on eBay, but not in any other segment of the market. Speaking of real musicians, knowing how to spell Studer, and digital... https://www.studer.ch/en/news/rai-commissions-digital-recording-studios-at-la-scala-milan |
This is interesting and it promises to be as good as what you are used to. "Fully authenticated by Studer"! Check the video (lower on the page). https://www.uaudio.com/uad-plugins/special-processing/studer-a800-tape-recorder.html |
As I stated many moons ago Vinny, I do NOT rpt NOT call myself an " audiophile". Never have and never will simply because what truly constitutes an " audiophile" is still an area of huge debate. I enjoy music reproduction and have many forms of media to that end. Fortunately I do NOT have a working 8 track or any tapes for it. Or Elcaset or DAT tape or minidisc. Do have and regularly use; Vinyl, cassette, R2R, CD, SACD, BluRay, Streaming. All have their plus and minus aspects. If you do not care for R2R yourself that is just peachy but you should avoid denigrating those who do. |
Not denigrating it but i just feel its a dead end format because the good techs and original critical parts are impossible to find like special heads, motors, mechanisms, high grade audio tape and so on. True R2R Techs are the hardest to find and when you do they are handcuffed by no available original parts. |
Vinny. I will grant you that SOME parts for SOME machines especially the more obscure brands and models can be hard to find and yes likely some cannot be repaired economicaly at this stage. However there is a great aftermarket support for a lot of machines, check out the Swiss ads on eBay for Revox units and parts, heck I bought a complete overhauled Revox b77 hs machine from a Swiss seller shipped to the USA for less than 1k all in. And yes finding a GOOD r2r tech is a little more challenging but not impossible but be prepared for a wait as obviously the good ones are very busy. Dead as is no interest or support is not truly the case, a more niche market for sure but still very much alive and kicking albeit to a special type of enthusiast, it is certainly not plug and play like CD. |
Vinnny, I have never been out of the R2R game. I recall my first reel that I purchased from Tipton appliance in the early 70's; they had a room with nothing but R2R decks lining the walls; Pioneer, Crown, AKAI, Sony, TEAC; many different models of each brand, all brand new and looking so beautiful; I purchased an AKAI that was a combination 7 inch reel, 8 track, and cassette deck. Naturally it was a lot of fun, but hard to get replacement parts. Parts and repairs are no problem when you stick to the main stream names and models. But if you got in that might make the hobby crowded, so please stay out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiHXuxBjxtU |
" Not denigrating it but i just feel its a dead end format because the good techs and original critical parts are impossible to find like special heads, motors, mechanisms, high grade audio tape and so on. True R2R Techs are the hardest to find and when you do they are handcuffed by no available original parts." Vinnie, stop making this stuff up, parts and services are available, use a search engine. |
LOVED my Teac X-7R!....If It were a car, it would’ve been one of those Volvos in the old Popular Mechanics magazine ads that racked up 7 figures of miles. It went in the shop a couple of times more than I’d have preferred toward the end of its usable life but it was Hell when it was well! In the early days of CDs, I’d make mix tapes (reels) from those shiny, newfangled so & so’s and I liked listening to the tapes better than the discs. Ah youth... |
If you own a R2R , cassette players teac and other Japanese MFG THERE is a service center that has all original parts ( heads , belts, hardware, cosmetic components and remotes snd much more even manuals Techician and owners ,,, if you won’t just put your item in google and you will find it.. i needed a head , meter and a solenoid for my wife’s wollensak 8 track player 8075 and I found it all new pieces |
There are 101 reasons to choose digital over tape, but audio quality is not one of them. Even here, many will agree that digital is a close second to reel, but in the dark silence of late night audio, when audiophiles are at their keenest perception of what is, and what is not, is when reels reign supreme; they breathe life into music. |
Revox is/has building/built a new R2R in 2017 and Ballfinger M063 is a new R2R tape recorder out and in shops. R2R are not on their way out but rather on their way back in! http://www.ballfinger.de/tape-recorder-m-063 BTW I just got a beautiful Technics RS1500US, and see and heard a regain of interest for these old things. Tape is the new vinyl! Soon your cassettes will be back into game again. Perfectly happy going back and forth between analogue and digital. |
@glupson As I wrote in the second post, of course some of these R2R manufacturers are making digital products today. I don't see hundreds of successful buggy whip manufacturers around any more, so keeping up with technology is clearly key to staying in business. The point I was trying to make is, just like any technology, there is digital and then there is DIGITAL, where the most accurate and highest quality digital equipment can be manufactured at high cost. Someone has to be the best at this technology; I really don't think your ipod or whatever quite meets that standard, and many here pay huge prices for what are marketed as super-high-quality digital components. They get to hear their digital recordings played back on the best possible equipment available, and if the recording was done with an equal level of quality digital equipment and recording engineers who are knowledgeable about that process, you are going to hear digital at its best. Doesn't mean it is "better" than analog; it is simply different. A favorite analogy of mine concerns "electronic" drums and "Hammond B-3 Chips." They are both used in the recording studio and in live concerts. Do they sound anything like "real" drums or a "real" B-3? Of course not. BUT, they imitate those instruments and provide their own unique sound. If the composer wants that sound, they use those digital instruments. If they want the original sound, they use the original instruments. No right or wrong here, just preferences. Now, if you are thinking that your digital instruments DO sound like the originals, that is where we have an issue. You need a better education or a better ear, I guess. Cheers! |
In one of the responses yes a German company Ballfinger is producing new R2R , they are pricey 11,000 - 24,000 US SO IF YOU HAVE THE CASH YOU CAN HAVE A GREAT MACHINE WITH ALL UPDATED COMPONENTS.. or if you really wont to get into R2R format you can purchase a VINTAGE R2R in great condition for 700.00 - 1600.00 i picked up a teac x10R made some updates with NEW ORIGINAL-PARTS belts , heads , capstan rollers AND A FEW OTHER COSMETIC PIECES total investment 900.00 and 2 years later never missed a note |
richopp, we must have misunderstood each other somehow. I was replying to your... Can you say (or spell) STELLAVOX? STUDER?which implied that those companies would prove R2R alive and thriving. However, both of them have abandoned the format. It might have been an unfortunate example that you picked which, in effect, solidified the impression that R2R is practically dead on any significant scale. Kind of "See these powerhouses of R2R. Ooooops, they do not want to have anything to do with R2R." When it comes to digital vs. analog, it is not even the point of this thread although it got slid in as "tape is great while digital is bad". Along with "digital is garbage and real musician would tell you". It was also an imperfect example as many, if not most, of the real musicians do not seem to spend much time thinking about it. Of course, it depends on one’s definition of "real musician" and sample size used. Admittedly, my "real musician" sample is small. I have nothing against R2R (I actually grew up with it being my primary source of music for a while), but it is a niche product for nostalgic people. It may sound better to one’s ears, but thriving format it is not. One manufacturer does not make a renaissance. |
"Revox is/has building/built a new R2R in 2017..."This is puzzling, but not that much. If such thing had actually been produced, ReVox somehow forgot to mention it on their website. Not in the news from 2016 or 2017, not in the history of their tape machines. Internet has many pictures of 2017 ReVox tape recorder. All of them on some enthusiast websites or YouTube channels. Nothing solid, though. No review of a machine that would be expected to be eagerly awaited. No real pictures. Nothing. Well, something... http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=60354 Sad news, ReVox has not been producing tape decks for many years now. Not in 2017. It has not contributed to this revival yet. |
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I don’t have anywhere near the patience (and likely budget) for reel2reel, but super envious of anyone who does. The one time I got to hear a good reel2reel I was amazed... a whole step beyond the great digital and vinyl also in the setup. I wish I could un-hear it and just grumpily agree with the OP. |
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Picked up a very gently used Akai GX-635D last year, had a tech go through it top to bottom. It sounds simply glorious, came with several reels of very well made recordings. I don’t think the format is dead, I think popularity will continue to reinvigorate, not only due to vynil, but it also looks cool, and on a slightly weird note - hot oil mixed with tape dust produces fascinating smell, the very smell of analog! |
If there is one thing this thread has accomplished so far is to show that a fair number of members have the polar opposite view of the OP. Plenty here have revealed that they have actually moved INTO the r2r world with many stating purchased used r2r machines at fair prices in full working order. It's not mainstream and never will be and is not for those without patience or time. There will be repairs or tune ups required along the way. But the sonic rewards are well worth it imho. I just wish the market for used original recorded r2r music was not quite so "buoyant" as it is. Routine actual selling prices of $50 plus for popular titles is not fun at all. |
Seems as audiophiles we’re all on the fringes anyway in terms of our own obsessions with sound quality and musical enjoyment (not a passion shared/appreciated by the majority of the public). I think it’s great that there are so many options that one can explore (new/vintage formats alike). For me it has always been making a connection with the music - in that pursuit there are many paths to audio Nirvana, let reel-to-reel tape be one of them. |
@vinny55 Um.... no. I was a Nak dealer back in the day, and have owned multiple decks, including the Dragon. Yes, they are glorious. Vastly better than most cassette decks. And yes, parts are a problem. But no, they do not equal a Revox with a good source tape. I worked with a Revox shop that did live field recordings years. A half track at 15ips is the best analog source I have ever heard. Turntables included. |
I sold my old Teac A 5300 I purchased in S.E. Asia. I kind of miss it. I saved my 7" reels of good music and I'm thinking about getting another player for them. It's hard to find one in great shape and repair is difficult but I may keep looking. And streaming is so easy, I'm a little spoiled, and lazy. BTW, I really appreciate this site, I'm new at this and I've gotten some terrific advice. Thanks all. |
At United Home Products, in Virginia, I heard several rebuilt and highly modified machines (they specialize in rebuilding Technics, Otari and Tascam machines). They have some Tape Project pre-recorded tapes, but, their favorite use of tape machines is to make recordings from LPs. They don't do this to preserve LPs, rather, they contend that LPs sound better after being re-recorded on tape. I heard the comparison and I don't quite agree, although I can see why some might prefer the taped version. The sound is smooth, open and beautiful sounding after being re-taped, but, I thought it lost a bit of dynamics and the hard edge to the initial attack of some instruments. Still, really good pre-recorded tapes sounded terrific. I know that companies associated with The Tape Project also modify machines, offer better electronics, etc. (e.g., Bottlehead makes tube electronics for tape machines). I have also heard a re-built Studer machine with custom electronics from Doshi and the tapes I heard on it were fantastic. High speed reel tape has an open top end that is so extended without being harsh or edgy that one does not hear elsewhere. I will never own a tape machine because of the extreme inconvenience in threading tape, rewinding, re-spooling tape when it spills, splicing breaks, etc. It is not for me, but, I don't deny that well recorded reel to reel is something special. |
