Mattmiller's idea is the best suggestion I've seen here, and I agree with him. By the way, I have a 2105 that has been maintained regularly over the years, and it is a great amp, as is yours. I use it sometimes when I'm not using my 8 watt SET. I what I'm talking about because I have also owned an MC 300 and an MC 402. I wasn't crazy about the 402 which really surprised me, but it goes to show that old technology or new, in the end it's about how it sounds, and those earlier Mac amps sound great. That is why people still pay stupid prices for them. |
Reuben the MC2505 is a nice rugged little amp, and it is a warm sounding amp. The Idea of using a tube pre amp is a good one. But, consider that having too much warmth may be a bad thing. I would highly consider purchasing a Mac solid state pre amp a older one that will work very well with your current amp like a C32 or C33 or even better a C41, these pre amps will not come close to your budget either. If you really want to spend $4,000 , I would consider calling Audioclassics.com and speak to Mike Sastra (ive known Mike for over 25 yrs) about trading in your MC2505 (plus the 4K) for a much newer MAC integrated amplifier. Also, I agree with most here that Mac is best with Mac...until you purchase one of their Double or Quad balanced designs! I have used McIntosh amps from the late MC2300 to my current MC352 and they have improved the sound a lot over the years.
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Thanks for posting details about your system, Ruben. Since you are running all digital sources, I'd strongly suggest you forget about the C2300 & C2500. You would be paying for a very high-end phono section in both that you won't be using anytime soon. While the C2500 has an excellent DAC, it is also well above your budget. Even the C2300 is pushing that end of it.
Because you have Tannoys, you might consider going the other way around because they are comparatively efficient and stable: Tube amp and SS preamp. An MC75 with a D100 would get your digital from the BlueSound into a better DAC than the Rotel and you can do away with the Rega and MC2505 altogether. Just a thought, but I suspect that you would be very, very pleased with the result and would be in your budget range.
If you eventually choose to get into vinyl, you can look at a C48, C50 or C2500 to keep an internal DAC and get a good phono section. Do keep in mind that vinyl is a super-geeky branch of audio and can get very expensive very fast. It isn't just a phono section; it's a table, arm, cartridge, protractor, cleaning accessories, interconnect and more. It's also fussy and requires a knowledge base. Be sure you truly understand what you're opening yourself up for if you decide to take that plunge.
With respect to mixing ARC and Mc gear, I know folks that swear by it and others that swear at it. You'll see my rig is pretty much all Mc, but I was crafting a very specific solution that couldn't be readily accommodated by ARC (ARC was also well beyond my comfort zone price-wise).
An audition at a local Mc dealer would be a very good idea for you. Most of them stock Mc, ARC, Sonus Faber and B&W now, and that would let you get a better handle on the kind of sound available in your budget range. I again suggest you contact Audio Classics; they have a world of expertise dealing with your kind of situation.
Have fun & good luck!
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I was also considering biamping the 2505 with another 2505, and using the c2300/2500 to feed signal to both power amps
Why would you take the weakest link in your system and add another 2505? The 2505 was Mac's first solid state design, and they have learned a lot since it's introduction. In addition, IIRC, you cannot bridge a 2505 to run in mono, you need to run each amp in mono parallel which only increases current and not voltage, therefore, you system will not play louder than your stereo setup. |
I have had McIntosh equipment, ARC equipment and a number of combinations of the 2. My conclusion has always been that an ARC preamp and Mac amp or vice versa delivers the worst of both worlds. ARC/ARC is my personal favorite. Mac/Mac my second favorite. Far worse is any combo of the 2. |
I was also considering biamping the 2505 with another 2505, and using the c2300/2500 to feed signal to both power amps (provided I decide on buying a Mac Preamp). In that scenario the pair of MC 2505's will provide over 120 WPC to each speaker.
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Yes I've heard this about Mac gear, that it stands out most when paired with other Mac gear. I hope this is true for vintage and modern combinations of Mac gear as well. But matching gain levels is another factor I hadn't considered, but now I will. I believe the c2300/ 2500 has a function that will match gain fairly accurately, someone please confirm this.
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Whatever you buy, you should consider the scenario if/when you upgrade your amp. I have an MC2200 McIntosh amp which may or not share the same sonic qualities as your amp and I tried it with a couple of different preamp's - mostly whatever my friends were willing to bring over and try and including my own SS NAD preamp, and the best sound was from an Audible Illusions 3A. We tried it with one of my friend's ARC LS17se and for some reason we couldn't get the volume high enough for a decently loud playback. Not sure why, probably gain mismatch. None of this will probably help with your decision since my speakers are completely different from yours- ML Aerius, and I have a huge listening room, but use the data points for whatever they're worth. All in all, there are a lot of folks out there, particularly on the McIntosh forums, that claim MAC stuff sing best when mated with other MAC components. |
Oh and I play high res audio only, via an external hard drive for now. Eventually including a nice record player to the mix.
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You do have a point, I haven’t mentioned many details about my current setup. My goals here are to eventually upgrade my entire system to something much more refined and detailed, with an expansive soundstage and full bodied midrange.
Here it is:
Tannoy XT6f floorstanding speakers
Rotel RDD-1588 DAC
Blue Sound Node 2 Media Player
Rega Elex-R Integrated Amp (Preamp out)
McIntosh MC2505 Vintage Power Amp (68 WPC)
AudioQuest RCA Cables Panther
I’d Like to start my upgrades with a very capable tube preamp. I already have a system with a polished top end (which I love), and descent bottom end (could be a little tighter). I’d love to improve the soundstage depth and width, as well as the midrange response and detail.
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You don't have your system posted or say what kind of sources you prefer to use, so it's difficult to give precise input. If you're a vinyl junkie with a hot table, arm and cartridge, that's one thing. If you're all-digital and into streaming, that can often be something else. Much (if not all) also very much depends on your speakers.
Given what you've said, I'd have to agree with brf that making a major upgrade to your preamp could well reveal weaknesses in the MC2505. It's not a bad amplifier as such things go, but it is quite a bit older and limited in power.
You might be better served taking the ~$5000 total budget that would include the sale value of the 2505 and looking at a MC7100 and C2200 combo, for example. Talking to the guys at Audio Classics could give you other ideas, too.
Good luck & happy listening! |
Sorry, IMHO the 2505 is not one of Mac's better efforts. Matching a high end pre will not make the Mac 2505 any better, but only highlight it's shortcomings. You may taking a big step backwards.
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Enter your text ...Really? Even better than the ARC? Should I be concerned that I havea vintage Mac Power amp? It has a very warm, tube-like, sound meant to mimic the early tube power amps that Mac originally produced. I hoped a well-matched tube pre and warm sounding solid state power amp could complment each other.
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I've owned a few Mac amps in the past and have paired them with other preamp brands, tube and solid state with very good results. The Reference 3 is a very good choice but the Hovland HP 100 may be a better sound and is in your price range if you can find one.
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