Can a turntable ever have enough isolation?

Hi Chris, A turntable is either isolated or it is not. A suspension with a very low resonance frequency, below 3 Hz is required to do this. The best platform is the MinusK which is very expensive. There are other platforms but I suspect most of them do not do much. I have always gotten turntables with internal suspensions that provide that level of isolation. They are available from Avid, Basis, Kuzma, Oracle, SME and Sota. Oh, and yes, isolation is very important if you want the cleanest playback.

blue collar, Where do you live? Are you in a large city, in an apartment, out in the country, in a private home? Is your system sitting on a well supported floor? These are all factors that enhance or diminish the role that isolation can play in enhancing your results. For example, obviously having a turntable in a basement of a private rural home sitting on a shelf that rests on poured concrete over solid earth is not going to present much of an isolation problem. Note, I did not use the word "suspension"; I used the word "isolation". (And I notice you did too.) That’s what you need to seek. Spring suspension done wrong or inadequately can do more harm than good. Likewise, it is usually not a good idea to use two springy or rubbery elements under one turntable. In other words, don’t put a TT with an internal spring suspension on top of a shelf that is supported by springs, for example. The two different spring rates can wreak havoc.

I have produced structures over the past years using different Quantities of Tiers with differing materials/devices used a footers.

I have a Multi Tier Structure today, that would is only acceptable as it is used in a dedicated room for the HiFi System, the design and aesthetic would not last an Hour in the main home space before the divorce papers arrived.

To get to where I am, I started with a dedicated rack and the usual Top Shelve mounting. This progressed to a Wall Mounted Shelve and then a method was used to suspend a Platform from the shelve. 

Curiosity is always present, and I began trying out different footers, and then different Sub Plinth Materials and the Quantity of Sub Plinths.

As the use of Sub Plinths was the most attractive, I abandoned the Wall Shelve as the Structures were looking precarious when mounted on it.

This idea was reinforced when I went back to the Rack System with a Granite Top Shelve/Lowest Sub Plinth and then built the structure of this, I felt a lot of improvement was to be found.

I become convinced that Sub Plinth Materials that were compressed were the most attractive in my environment when compared to additional stone, standard Type Boards, and Glass.

Today I have started to use Densified Wood built up from the Granite Base.

The TT also has a Densified Wood Plinth Produced, which is yet to be introduced.  

I do demonstrations in different homes and my Solid Tech ' Feet of Silence' footers are ones that originally caused a stir, resulting from the good impression made when in direct contact under a TT or CDP. My introducing the  Densified Wood Sub Plinths, along with Suspension Footers are starting to seem ubiquitous for showing the improvements that can be attained when used with a TT or CDP. 

I see you have Maple Sub Plinths in different thicknesses available. A very cost effective method to learn about the effects of using additional tiers to support the TT, can be achieved quite quickly, I would use different footer type materials / devices, with at least one being a suspension device between the tiers.

If discoveries are made that are attractive, the same can be carried out on the Amp's.

My Power Amps are seated on two footers made form a Vibration Control Material used under the concrete screed when constructing laboratories. Seated on this is a 200Kg Granite Engineers Block, which if the Bottom Sub Plinths, I then use two different densities of Foam, one with a compression resistance and the other being  boards of the most compressed foam that can be bought, at approx' 800Kg per cubic metre. 

As aside, it is the compressed foam board, that superseded all previous sub plinth materials used above the Granite, the foam is now looking likely to be Superseded by Densified Wood, as the funds allow for the purchases.     

I know of a German Equipment owner, who has a vast experience in using a Vinyl Source, they seat their Phonostages on a 50mm thick Stainless Steel Sub Plinth, I am tempted to see if there is good reason for this.   

It will be interesting to receive feed back if this suggested method is trialed..  

OP,

In general, no, there is no such thing as too much isolation.

My Linn is sprung… so the table takes care of big vibrations. I have used a number of different isolation devices under it and turntables in the past.

After a lot of research I bought a Silent Running Ohio Class +++ isolation platform manufactured specifically for my Linn. This had a very positive effect at eliminating micro vibrations that a sprung system does not deal with. The imaging improved notably and the the background got quieter. The technology in this system is used for stuff like electron microscopes. Highly recommended.

Since it was a large expenditure and I needed time to pass before getting my next high end isolation device. I put Nobsound springs under all my other equipment. Cheap and adjustable at ~$10 / spring. Thanks MillerCarbon… well worth the small investment.

Dear @blue_collar_audio_guy  : Your TT is a DJ TT made it by Technics.

As @ghdprentice posted: " is not such thing as too much isolation "#. So, go a head with what you have in mind.

Btw, @mijostyn  the Minus K alone is more expensive that the whole op room/system.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

@rauliruegas , Darn Raul. Who care about money? I though we were all filthy rich!

Since I bought a SOTA Sapphire, all the isolation necessary is built into the design. So, yes, I have enough isolation without the need of any other third party product or add-on ‘gizmo’. 

A wall mounted turntable shelf, preferably mounted to a concrete wall that is studded and covered in dry wall, is the best isolation bar none...absolutely zero footfalls, banished forever. On top of that, add in your usual butcher block platform supported by your choice of isolation products, such as vibrapods etc....If the turntable is already well isolated from vibration by design, even better in combination with the above shelf set up.

Thanks for responses!

Lewm I'm in a house and the system is on a suspended carpeted floor. On the floor I've laid down shelving panels as a base for the component racks. The component racks are on this shelving supported on those cheap rubber cork combo pads that came with the butcher blocks. Works for now. 

I appreciate all the suggestions but wasn't looking to spend any money at the time on it. I was curious if it was a good idea to implement what I mentioned doing. It appears it's totally fine and at my discretion to try it. And have tons of options to go through if I want to take it further according to the folks here. 

I 

Lewm nailed it. Anything you can do to rigidify the floor under your turntable will be a good thing - like concrete blocks wedged between crawl space floor and floor joists.

@blue_collar_audio_guy 

'And have tons of options to go through if I want to take it further according to the folks here.'

Your description of owned Sub Plinth supports for the Amps, also allows for your to try out a few alternative Sub Plinth configurations at your leisure, not needing to spend any funds.

I am familiar with the Cork - Fluted Rubber Lamination Footers and the same with Foam in place of Cork.

These when used in my environment and used on a the Sub Plinth Structure for the TT, had subdued the sound stage, an airiness and spacing was lost, the foam version was slightly more attractive over the Cork. Suspension footers correct this in my environment to a manner that I find more attractive. 

The above has proved the same when using the same materials as Speaker Footers, sat upon a Spike Supported 50mm thick Granite slab. The Pads and suspension footers have been used as footers for Floor Standing Cabinet Speakers.

The above does not rule Cork or Foam out, I use Cork in a 5mm thickness and like the impression made with some devices seated on it, It has been the most cost effective, when I use it as an isolator between a 30mm Thick Granite Shelve and a SUT.

I also use foam in different densities, a Pre-Amp' set up on its own dedicated Rack/ Plinth, excels in presentation when seated on a Sub Plinth Base, being made up of the highly compressed foam, with a Soft Porous, easy to compress foam tier that is in contact with the Pre Amp', even though it does come to rest unlevel on the rack.   

I have discovered some quite interesting outcomes about the use of different thickness materials being better in use in certain environments, I have learnt when it comes to TT's the environment is a very important consideration, there is in my experiences, not seeming to be one ubiquitous solution available when using affordable ancillaries to aid with supporting a TT. Especially ones that leaves the perception an improvement has occurred due to the mounting method in use.

The is usually a need to swap out materials and configurations of an assembly to show a change to a presentation that is seen to be an improved set up.

The recent adoption and use of Densified Wood, is looking to be getting closer to a 'suits all' material, from evaluating it use recently for Mounting other TT's in other environments.    

Hi OP you can never have enough Isolation 

The theory of more stuff.

Vibration isolation in audio is a subject surrounded in mystery half truths and any number of wild theories. As an engineering exercise, the explanation is quite straight foreword and may be explained by the “Theory of more stuff”.
 

Take a surface, be it the floor or a table, on which your hi fi component is placed and it is desired to reduce the vibration from the support to the equipment. The way this is done is to put “some stuff” between the equipment and the supporting surface. There are three possible outcomes.
 

1 The vibration in the equipment is more than the vibration in the support.
This is not possible as if it were; the energy crisis would be solved! More
out than what is put in. Free power forever! Unfortunately, this scenario
contradicts the first and second laws of thermodynamics, so is not
possible.
 

2 The vibration in the supported equipment will be the same as in the case of no stuff. The chances of this are one in a million because something has been changed… it may be the same, but that is extremely unlikely, therefore, the only possibility is,
 

3 The vibration will be attenuated, to a greater or lesser degree, and this is the case.
 

There are many products out there that do in fact attenuate vibration. Be it spikes on glass, wood and slate, aluminium spikes in cups, ball bearings in cups, solid plates separated by compliant sheets, lead, Bluetack, sand, marble, concrete, the list is endless. It is also known that multiple combinations of the above produce better results because there is more stuff. E.g. multiple platforms stacked really high.
 

The engineering approach is to get the best result in the simplest manner by optimizing the “stuff” and way back about two centuries ago the Victorian engineers came up with the solution…. the spring! The spring may be anything “springy”, from elastic, rubber, coiled steel, straight steel, air-bladders to flexible wooden strips. As long as it has sufficient spring or compliance, when optimised with an appropriate mass, a mechanical low pass filter is realised.

The ideal is to have the resonant frequency as low as is possible, ideally around 2Hz in both the horizontal and vertical planes and with a damping ratio of about 0.16. This will give an attenuation of about 25dB at 10 Hz increasing at 20dB per decade above. This will ensure excellent isolation for the deleterious audio system vibrations which are from 5Hz to 500Hz.