Thank you all for your suggestions. I found the best set up to be ML 333 and MIT770 reference cables. That's how I'm playing now and I think I'm done about power and cords. NExt step will probably be to try an ARC reference to see if it will overtake my beloved SP11MKII. |
I am using Cardas Golden reference throughout IC and speaker cables. I think the cardas balances the sometimes bright top end (as compared to say Sonus Faber or Avalon) and has an absolutely seductive midrange warmth, air and palpability to it that matches exceptionally well with the coherence of the Thiels 7.2. I tried Acoustic Silver reference too but found the bottom a bit too much for much taste, and the midrange not as liquid. But my power is a Pass and that might be why. |
I use Krell 400cx to power my CS6s. Lez is correct about them being a NOMINAL 4 Ohm speaker. Be aware that they dip to 2.4 Ohms, albeit at the benign phase angle due to the first order crossover, but still requiring an amp that can provide the current at this relatively low impedance. |
Some updates. I tried the Gamut D200. I have not been impressed especially for bass (lack of) performance. POwer surely not enough. My Vt100 is much better. I Will keep you posted on the next steps. |
Why don't you try SIM AUDIO amp wich are great with my Thiels. Did much better then Bryston or McIntosh. |
I am using a McCormack DNA-2 Dlx (300 8ohm, 600 4ohm) with good results. Bought it used for $3000. I'm not saying its the end-all beat-all but it mates well. |
Marco,
Thiel speakers are very power hungry. The sensitivity is given as 86 dB but for 2.83V/1m, (2,83 is the square root of 8, normally manufacturers use this if the speaker's impedance is 8 Ohms.). Because of the fact that the CS6 has a 4 Ohm impedance, the actual sensitivity of the speaker is 3 db less: only 83 dB. This is a really low value and if we add that the minimum impedance is near 2 Ohms then there is no question anymore: we need lots of power. The actual need of power of course depends on the room size and our listening habits too, however my experience is that 200W/8, 400W/4 Ohms is the minimum these speakers neeed in ANY room setup. I had a Mark Levinson No. 331 before and it has almost ran out of its reserve and was not capable of driving the speaker to its full potential. I am not talking of not being loud enough, of course I could not pump up the volume to the max. even with the 331, but at that the same volume level the bigger amps were much more relaxed and had better control and did not lose anything from their imaging.
I tried the No. 331, No. 333, Pass Labs X350, X250. The best were the 333 and the X350. The X250 is hardly enough, sometimes I feel that the 331 may has better control, but the X250 has the power and never collapses.
As far as tubes are concerned, Thiel recommends approximately the double of the SS power when you use tubed gear. The VT 100 is a great amp and sounds good, however I doubt that its control is enough, no matter how small the room is. Of course this is only my interpretation... The only tubed amp that I listened to and offered tremendous power was the VTL MB 1250 Wotan and the VTL Siegfried. The latter was the best tubed amp I ever listened to, faster and more dynamic than most SS amps. In your search for the right cables you might as well give a try to the Pass X350, it definitely worths considering. |
Lez,
thanks for your very detailed history that help more than a bit.
As a CS6 expert what are the amlifiers you tried out? I have been told from many sources that Thiel are avid of power.. I'm looking for the right cable but I do not have the feeling that the 100W of my ARC Vt100 are not working. In the opposite way in my room, that is small, I have very very good resolution at low levels I'm not sure I would get from a SS amplifier. Very interested to know your feeling on that one. In one week from now I will have other cables to try out and will post my impression. |
when I was at Thiel last year,they were using alpha-core cables. |
I have been listening to my CS6 speaker for about a year and I tested it with the cables as follows:
Harmonic Technology Magic Tweeter/Woofer and Pro 9
Transparent Reference wXL
Gryphon Guideline PSC Gold
Siltech Ribbon
Siltech LS 288 Gold
Kimber KS 3038
Nordost Valhalla
For interconnects I tried (all balanced XLR)
Harmonic Technology Magic Link One
Transparent Reference MM
Siltech SQ88B Gold
Kimber KS 1130
Nordost Valhalla, Valkyrja, QuattroFil
My power cords are Elrod EPS 2 Signature for the CDP and Siltech SPX 30 Classic G5 with Mark Levinson No. 39 driving a No. 333 and occasionally a Pass X250.
In this setup my final choice was Siltech for all cables (except for the CDP). It is dynamic, harmonically correct, open, airy and does everything right in this setup. The runner up was the Valhalla it sounded magical too. The Harmonic Tech Magic Tweeter was the best cable in terms of price vs. performance. The Kimber 3038 was a great cable but too warm for my taste and the KS1130 interconnect, which was my secret tip, finally was a major disappointment because of lack of dynamics and resolution compared to the Valkyrja and the Siltech SQ88B Gold. The only Transparent cable I liked was the new Reference MM. the others were rolled off in the treble.
This of course only represemts my taste: I like fast, dynamic, lively open sound without colorations and I do not like the artificial added warmth which is somtimes referred to as being "musical". If someone's taste is the opposite of mine I would recommend the Kimber. It is important to note however, that the interconnect and speaker cable I use are very very hard to find on the used market, I waited for almost a year until I was able to buy them. I hope this helped a bit. |
I tried a 10 Ft Transparent Super Bicable and they sound absolutely great. I miss a bit of control on the very low bass and I sense they are a bit aggressive. But now we can talk about music...I will keep youposted on the next steps.
I would love to try The HT Prosiway 9s but it is difficult to find them in my country (Italy). |
Harmonic Technologies Prosilway 9s are what I use with my CS6s. Much improved over the Tara Air Twos that I was using previously. Much air and great balance top to bottom, excellent dynamics. They seem to be made for each other. |
Audience AU-24 might be a good match. I eventually switched from CGR to AU24 and use it currently for speaker cable. Nice and thin too, cool looking I think. |
I tried The Cardas GR. Good overall. The only think I'm missing is air around instruments and still Female voices too dry. Any experience with MIT or Transparent around this? |
I used to love Cardas Golden Ref and Cardas Golden Cross with Thiels. The former is a little more neutral and detailed, the latter has an irresistable sound in the right circumstances. |
I have tried Goertz M1 AG just today. I'm not impressed. Very cool and "HiFi". Especially Voices do not have the right soul. I do not think it is the right match. |
I think Thiel did a show with alpha core cables. May be something synergistic with alpha core. I heard the source was i pod, though. go figure. |
I love the VD wire and think that it offers a good value for the money.The Master and Revelation compete with the very best outthere.At the very least you should try the power cords which truly are second to none,the only warning is that it shows any damping issues or upstream signal issues as well.I know that the Thiels are very open and show off any problems that they are fed.Hope this helps Dennis |
I use Alpha-Core Goertz MI3 with good results. |
Siltech LS288 Gold is a great match. |
